Best SEO Podcasts
How to Calculate the ROI of Your SEO Campaigns Using Google Analytics
Join Matt and Chris for another thrilling episode of the Best SEO Podcast, featuring “How to Calculate the ROI of Your SEO Campaigns Using Google Analytics.” by Adam Heitzman. TRANSCRIPT:

Chris Burress: Hi and welcome to the SEO Podcast – Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Chris Burress, one of the owners here at eWebResults.

Matt Bertram: My name is Matt Bertram and I’m looking right out the window!

Chris Burress: Welcome back to another fun filled edition of the podcast, this is podcast number 454… Is it 454? I think it’s 454.

Matt Bertram: We kind of slowed down a little bit, sorry everyone. I know we… Everybody is looking out for us, but we… This new location has been crazy!

Chris Burress: Yes. And we’re busy delivering results. I feel like that’s a lot of [crosstalk 00:00:40].

Matt Bertram: It’s true. We’re moving actually our podcasts earlier in the day, so we can make sure to get it in. And then we’re delivering results late into the night.

Chris Burress: Late into the night. So, we’ve got a review. Hold on, I got to pull that review up on my little device here. And that review is from Alexandra Schmidt and she says, “You guys are absolutely amazing.” By the way, this is a long review.

Matt Bertram: All right.

Chris Burress: So, get prepared.

Matt Bertram: All right, I’m going to… Can I cross my leg? Oh, I can’t cross my legs the other way.

Chris Burress: “I have been listening to your podcast on Spotify. I love what you’ve been doing these… That you’ve been doing these for so long, talk about a binge.” Oh, that’s pretty cool.

Matt Bertram: Yeah.

Chris Burress: I think this is the first person who’s talked about, binging our podcast.

Matt Bertram: I like it.

Chris Burress: We do have people who listen to our podcast at speed 4.

Matt Bertram: That is true. Well… So actually, I was looking on Amazon and there’s only one business podcast on Amazon, so we’re working on getting out on there. And also, you can actually… Some of the little kid videos that I was watching on YouTube, are on Amazon or on Netflix. So, you could actually binge-watch our shows on Netflix, how cool would that be?

Chris Burress: That would be cool.

Matt Bertram: And in 3D, on Oculus. We all have to have goals

Chris Burress: Soon coming… Because we’ve decided that this needs to be in 3D. No seriously, we’ve decided that. “I wanted to say thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences in helping educate not only web, SEO and marketing professionals, but also the general public. I have heard you say that your clients are sometimes coming to you after being burned by other companies and that is an unfortunate reality for most of us. But hearing you guys talk about and recommend the things we do day in and day out in our office for our clients, is inspiring. I know we are doing the right things. I hope business owners that listen realize that many of us do care and are avidly working for their success.”

Matt Bertram: It’s true.

Chris Burress: Wow, I like kindred spirits here. “With that said, I’m hoping you could offer me some advice. There was one episode where you covered how to help your clients close more sales, and I wish you could have talked about it for another hour.” That’s the first time we’ve ever heard that, you guys need to talk for another hour. “You see, we have successfully moved one specific client up in search results, generated more clicks at a better cost and AdWords, have a strong social media marketing strategy but they are not closing sales, help me please. I don’t know if I should offer to sit in for a day to listen to and help with their sales process, plan guerrilla marketing days, send emails daily. Oh, it’s a local plumber for reference. And they have been very particular about sharing information like who their happy customers are, so we can get them an email list and ask for referrals and reviews. Any advice you could bestow, would be forever appreciated. Thank you.” How did she sign it off? “Thank you. Loyal fan-”

Matt Bertram: Alex. Or the… Your-

Chris Burress: Your biggest fan or something like that. We had to take screenshots.

Matt Bertram: Your newest biggest fan.

Chris Burress: Newest biggest fan.

Matt Bertram: I like that.

Chris Burress: Punch on the face to you, Alexandra. It’s one of the things that we bump into here pretty regularly. When you start delivering really good results from an internet marketing perspective, you kind of know you’re delivering right results, right? You know that the click prices come down, you know that their traffic is up, you know that their forms submissions are up, you know that their phone calls are up, and sometimes you get that kind of sticky client who’s like, “I’m not getting any more business.” And you kind of do have to go that next step.

Matt Bertram: Well… So, a lot of people… It’s setting expectations, is what I’ve found, is, clients think that their new customers are going to be wrapped up in a bow, and sit on their doorstep just to open it up, pick it up like a Amazon box.

Chris Burress: And that the bow is made out of cash.

Matt Bertram: Yeah. I mean, it… So really, on the expectation side, on the fronting, you got to let them know that we’re warming up a cold market and that there’s going to be some sales involved to get them over the line. Now there’s things you can do, like shooting testimonial videos, getting things on camera that help sell you better, because 84% of people are through this buying funnel before you get on the phone with them, right?

Chris Burress: So people are 84% through the buying process before they even get on the phone with you.

Matt Bertram: Yes. So testimonial video has helped because people view that as a third party reference, that sort of thing. But, one of the things we’ve used a lot is, we recommend for clients at a certain size level, to implement a call tracking, something like CallRail, that’s what we use. And you can actually see where the leads are coming from, you can tie that into your analytics data. But then you can actually go in and listen to the call, so you don’t actually have to go their location. Sit there, listen to it, you can listen to a couple of calls.

Chris Burress: And we’ve done that and given advice.

Matt Bertram: And we’ve provided that feedback to the owners, where they’re not even understanding how they’re answering the phone and they go in and fix it pretty quick, others we can provide sales scripts too. Really what we’re seeing is there’s a merge here, of sales and marketing and those lines are very blurred. Email automation can help support salespeople. Bigger salespeople are using HubSpot or something like that, you can really go in there and help provide more touch points from a sales standpoint. But, if you’re really mainly focused on the marketing and they pick up the phone and kind of take over, you really want to understand what that process looks like because you can automate more of that process online.

Chris Burress: Yeah. You had a particular dental client, who you did a secret shopping on, it took them days to actually get… Imagine you call a dentist and it took days to get back to them, and then you put some things in place to help that out, that’s [crosstalk 00:06:26].

Matt Bertram: Yeah. So we put in some email automation or form submissions that came through, but what we’re seeing is sometimes people are not open every day. Sometimes the front desk is busy, they don’t answer the calls, they’re not checking or they’re not used to checking maybe the info at whatever your company is,, whatever. And you have to really train them on. When we’re generating leads online, it’s a different type of lead and it becomes a little bit different than someone calling to schedule appointment. Because that’s what a lot of clients think is, Hey, they’re just going to call and schedule appointment. Some of them do, but as you widen the funnel and you go more after a cold market, you’ve interrupted what they’re done, you’ve warmed up that market, but you got to get them across the line. And so, just setting that expectations, understanding where the rat helps you along the way.

Matt Bertram: Hopefully, some of those things gave you some suggestions. We are starting to do more training, we have a 50 person training center now, right? And so, we’re going to be doing more sessions, recording it, doing webinars, posting online information [inaudible 00:07:35], that sort of thing. And I think that, that is one that a lot of people struggle with. So if you are a agency, how to cross over that line? We can talk more about that. If you want more information on this, feel free to reach out, set up a free consultation. Alex, I’ll be happy to kind of talk you through some of the specific examples we do.

Chris Burress: You know Alexandra, and you know what I really like about this particular review, is that it shows that she’s concerned about the right things, right? So look, I’m already delivering value… And… So, it may just be trying to save the client because the client’s going to bail even though she’s delivering great results. But, you’re focused on results. It’s really why we changed the company to eWebResults, because nothing matters except-

Matt Bertram: Results.

Chris Burress: … results.

Matt Bertram: Well… No. I can tell you that we had a client. Okay? And this is… We typically say, “Hey, four to six months, we’ll get you on the first page.” But we doubled a client’s traffic in under 45 days, doubled. And this was the right kind of traffic. It wasn’t crazy keywords or anything like that. Client came back to us and said, “I don’t understand. I don’t understand what this means.” And so, it was really kind of a eye opening for us of like, we typically deal with a lot of podcast listeners, but we do get referrals and not everybody is as educated as us-

Chris Burress: As our podcast listeners.

Matt Bertram: … as our podcast listeners. Or thinking about things the way we do. And so, it’s really important to set those expectations of what’s going to happen when, what that means, how all this fits together. Really, I’ve started to kind of talk a lot about AdWords, and I didn’t mean to go into this here, but really AdWords is getting very saturated. We’re going… A number of other routes that we’re seeing greater ROI, and really-

Chris Burress: Speaking of which, we’re going to talk about ROI in the middle of this podcast, but go ahead.

Matt Bertram: Perfect. Also really, a core fundamental strategy is… AdWords used to be maybe a silver bullet and it used to be very affordable, same thing with Facebook. Now, everything is getting very noisy and it’s very cluttered and people’s attention spans are getting very short. I mean, maybe some people on our podcast listeners as you were reading through just a testimonial go, “Hey, I’m done-

Chris Burress: It’s too long.

Matt Bertram: Get into it now, this too long.” You got to understand customers online are that way too. And so, you really need to give them the information they’re looking for quickly and immediately, and sometimes ads don’t deliver that, right? And so, AdWords and ads and Facebook Ads are all great things, but the fundamental marketing strategy should be content and then getting that content visible. And then, if you want to hook people into your kind of ‘sales funnel’, you need to look at it as a comprehensive strategy. Not just, Hey-

Chris Burress: Not a tactic?

Matt Bertram: Yeah.

Chris Burress: Right. So, not a tactic. That’s like, Hey, let’s get this ad in front of the right people and hope that it converts. But a strategy there’s like, Okay, once these people come because they saw this interesting ad, what do we do next with that particular marketing strategy? What does that funnel look like? How are we going to steer them through the buying process, through the AIDA processes?

Matt Bertram: Yeah. You got to think about marketing too, is what you’re seeing, is like that whole image of the tip of the iceberg, right? And there’s a lot of things that are going on underneath it. As we kind of talked about the email follow ups, the remarking. All the things that fall into that funnel, need to be happening and then you get this multiplier effect of this thing or that thing. And so, doubling your traffic is a big deal and it shows that we know what we’re doing and we move the needle. But again, until the clients see leads, right?

Chris Burress: Nothing is happing.

Matt Bertram: That’s all… Nothing is happening and it all doesn’t matter. And really the expectation of, Hey, this is a four to six month minimum process. This needs to be a strategy, a longterm plan, finding the right partners. But, nothing is going to happen in 30 days. And if someone’s coming to you, that they’ve spent a bunch of money with another agency, they’ve been burned, they have a little bit of cash and they’re like, “Hey, we had a client, literally. $10,000…”

Chris Burress: Thank you Alexandra for getting us off.

Matt Bertram: I’m on a soapbox here. $10,000… No. Sorry, $100,000 they spent, they have multiple locations at eCommerce store, they’ve hired somebody by the name, I won’t give the name of the eCommerce solutions to build it for them. Jacked up, messed up, frustrated, upset, come to us and then we’re like, “Hey. Yeah, we can help you. We can build this out for you. We can do the marketing, all that.” “Okay, so can you do it for four grand?” And… So the pressure of what they’ve spent and they’re out this much, that’s all they have to recover, that’s all they’re going to give us to work with.

Matt Bertram: I really had to take a step back and say, “I can work miracles to a degree, but this is a miracle that I don’t think the expectations are set properly. And I just want to make sure we’re eyes wide open going into this.” And I’m almost to the point I’m having someone sign something, to realize what they’ve really… Are investing in or committed to, because they forget that. And so really, setting that expectation and kind of consistently managing that expectation. And really, you come to an agency, we can build websites in 30 days if it’s just kind of a website transfer, but if you’re building a whole eCommerce store with over, I don’t know, 10,000 products and then all the product categories and all that, that’s a…

Chris Burress: That takes a lot of time.

Matt Bertram: That manually just doing that-

Chris Burress: And especially if you do it right, right? So, you can even… It takes a lot of time just to throw it up haphazardly, and then to actually take the time to do it right. All right, so we’ve gone-

Matt Bertram: So I don’t know where I’ve gone. We… Let’s go back to data and being a data-driven company and drive by analytics.

Chris Burress: Without data.

Matt Bertram: Let’s get into this article. I’m so sorry Chris. This week has been-

Chris Burress: So we are as passionate as Alexandra, is about delivering results to our clients. And yeah, we get a little frustrated when we know we’re delivering results and [crosstalk 00:14:25].

Matt Bertram: Learn how to say no too. But a plumber is a great client.

Chris Burress: Yes.

Matt Bertram: Anybody that’s in a service based business, professional service, great client. Anything that’s… B2C is great. We had run ourself kind of like a short run shop for a while. And we’re getting to the level now that we really are more like a manufacturing line. And so really, be B2B work and custom work, I have to approve it or Chris has to approve it before we take on clients like that. We do provide great consulting, we provide some info products that we’re developing and we’re starting to develop referral partners. So, if you’re a smaller company out there, maybe you do Squarespace and you want smaller clients, you want clients that you can devote a lot of energy to, and really-

Chris Burress: That may not be the best fit for us.

Matt Bertram: That may not… We’re starting because we’re getting a little bit bigger and onboarding clients were starting to be kind of a little bit bigger of a tanker or kind of a battleship, I’ll call it a battleship. We’re not so much a speedboat as much anymore. While we can do those things, we are looking for referral partners. And so if you’re out there, we are going to set up a program to do that. We also do have our referral program that Chris will tell you about in a minute. But let’s get into this article, Chris, before people-

Chris Burress: Before time is up.

Matt Bertram: … keep hitting the fast forward button. So really like this article, by the way. Adam, I really do. Chris-

Chris Burress: Yeah. So, I read it and… I often, when I’m kind of identifying articles, one, I read the articles, and two, I’m looking for the three bullet points or whatever. And so, there’s no… It would be one critique of the title of the article is like, three ways to calculate the ROI of your SEO campaigns using [crosstalk 00:16:16].

Matt Bertram: As you’ve got a very short attention span.

Chris Burress: I do.

Matt Bertram: We as Americans in general.

Chris Burress: 7 seconds.

Matt Bertram: But I was pretty insistent that this was a awesome article. So, I want a punch you in the face too.

Chris Burress: And it turns out Matt was right. All right. So, the first point is, it can be difficult to determine the exact monetary value of SEO, right? That’s for sure. Because you’re moving… In fact, Alexandra was just pointing out, “Look, I’ve delivered value, I know they got better placement. We know they got more traffic and now the customer is struggling understanding or converting the traffic.”

Matt Bertram: What does that mean? You’ve moved me from page seven to page two. I’m not seeing any leads, the phone is not ringing.

Chris Burress: So how do you convince a company to hire you for SEO services without being able to promise them the exact dollar amount increase in their sales? By the way-

Matt Bertram: Is that what…

Chris Burress: [inaudible 00:17:00].

Matt Bertram: Oh, that’s what this… I didn’t read that part of the article. I’m a data analyst.

Chris Burress: So the simple answer is, how do you convince them to hire you? Is to calculate an ROI, calculate a return on investment that they’re going to get.

Matt Bertram: This was a perfect article for that testimonial.

Chris Burress: Yeah.

Matt Bertram: And we didn’t plan that.

Chris Burress: Yeah, we didn’t.

Matt Bertram: Synchronicity.

Chris Burress: You need to get some conversion data, right? So, one of the points that Adam made is that, there’s a big difference between tracking e-commerce sites, right? Conversion tracking for eCommerce sites and for lead based businesses. So, a lead like a plumber or an internet marketing agency, et cetera. So you’ve got… They look… They’re going to look very different. One of the benefits of eCommerce is-

Matt Bertram: Three products views. Three different products views.

Chris Burress: Three different product views.

Matt Bertram: Goal.

Chris Burress: Goal.

Matt Bertram: You can make it look a really good.

Chris Burress: Yes.

Matt Bertram: You can make… And I… So I have clients. Well I have a car dealership right now. That basically the agency before, it’s three minutes on the page or a minute on the page or on the site. And then three different car views. There’s a green version. I’m like, “This doesn’t mean anything to me. There’s thousands of conversions and I can’t see the data yet.” So…

Chris Burress: Yeah. So… And that’s kind of what this article talks about is like, how do you manage that a little bit more? So with e-commerce, you can show exactly, right? Because you can actually feed the dollar value of the sale over to Google and then you can run a report and say, “Look, this is the value of the traffic from SEO.”

Matt Bertram: More like abandoned cart, I’m okay with that.

Chris Burress: Abandoned [inaudible 00:18:36].

Matt Bertram: Abandoned cart, so I would put a value on that. When I was a headhunter… I know that you’re going to get into this, but this makes sense. What is an interview worth? What is a resume worth? What is-

Chris Burress: Oh yeah, what are the metrics leading up to [crosstalk 00:18:52].

Matt Bertram: What are the metrics leading up to that? And so, from… SEO, you can do the same thing and go, Okay, what is a visitor worth? What is a visitor that spends X amount of time worth? What is a download worth? What is a consultation worth? What’s a sale worth? You can work backwards from whatever your price point is and figure it out. And then what’s the craziest thing, is for recruiting-

Chris Burress: Did you know that that’s what this article talks about?

Matt Bertram: Well, sometimes you got to talk to somebody, right?

Chris Burress: Yes, for sure.

Matt Bertram: And… So, what are those calls worth? What’s that activity worth? How many people did you talk to per day? This model actually led into. So a recruiting price is a big ticket price that say 20/25%, of what their base salary is for a year. And-

Chris Burress: That’s a lot.

Matt Bertram: Yeah. I mean, Upstream oil and gas we did quite well. So the thing is, you had to work backwards and you either got the piece of cheese or you didn’t. Because they’d throw it out to a couple of different agencies, so you really want to retain search, so it’s guaranteed. And you’d know them along the way. But if not… So you’ve got this $25,000… $33,000 fee, but you don’t get paid unless you place the person, they stay there three months. But bottom line is, if you put every piece of activity, a dollar value to it and then added it up, it actually added up to that. You just got paid all at once at the end. And so, I’ve actually taken that methodology with SEO of the clients to understand going into it, what they’re spending and then what they’re going to get out. So we can see what-

Chris Burress: See what Adam puts together.

Matt Bertram: … Adam has to say about this.

Chris Burress: Yeah. So there is an advantage with e-commerce because you can get that data in. And… Let me see if… Does it get into this? All right. So, when you’re setting it up with e-commerce… So I’ve done this a couple of different ways. My other… I have another business and that business is in the kind of nutraceutical space. And… By the way, I didn’t intend to get into that space. It just kind of happened. The website is, sesres-

Matt Bertram: Money is dropping all around you.

Chris Burress: … [ 00:20:56]. And so, that current website is a WooCommerce, on WordPress website.

Matt Bertram: Shout out to [Cliff High 00:21:05] for launching it.

Chris Burress: Yeah, Cliff High really took off that, had that business take off. So the whole market actually kind of was spawned by some Cliff High who is a financial Bitcoin guy. So, that website was really easy, we did a plug in, WordPress is so easy to work with, it’s why the… Is why we here at eWebResults use it on an ongoing basis. Prior to that, I was partnered with an eCommerce website and we had put that website together in .ASP and I actually wrote the specific code that got the e-commerce data into Google Analytics. And so, you can do it. It doesn’t really matter what platform you are on, you really just have to… Think about it, when the… After you make the purchase and you go to the, thank you for the purchase page, you’ve got to have Google Analytics code on there to say, Hey, I’m going to collect information, and you’ve got to get… Make sure that the dollar value of that sale, gets to that Google Analytics code. It’s not rocket science, but you need some [crosstalk 00:22:08].

Matt Bertram: Can I just throw one pro tip? You’re the e-commerce guru, but I’m going to throw in just one pro tip-

Chris Burress: And you set up for this, I don’t know, I’m guru.

Matt Bertram: All right. So, Google has recently changed this. If you have products that you’re selling online, you need to enable leaving a product review.

Chris Burress: Yes.

Matt Bertram: Because you could not… Some of your product pages could not be-

Chris Burress: Might not be.

Matt Bertram: … might not be, that’s the word I’m looking for, be indexed by Google. So, we recently brought on another e-commerce company, they weren’t getting a lot of traffic. We were doing an audit, I was like, “All your pages aren’t kidding indexed.” And all we had to do is flip a little switch and boom, we’re off and running now, right? So there’s other things there too, but that’s just a little pro tip I want to throw in there with e-commerce. Also, Google is constantly changing. There’s a lot of stuff going on with the maps. I mean, just… That’s why we podcast. That’s why hopefully your watch podcasts is. Things are constantly changing, you’ve got to stay on your toes.

Chris Burress: Yes.

Matt Bertram: So…

Chris Burress: Absolutely. Right. So, pretty easy with e-commerce and you get really accurate tracking. When it’s a lead based business, you’ve got some thinking to do, right? You’ve got to figure out what actions the client wants them to take. And then [crosstalk 00:23:25].

Matt Bertram: The buyer’s journey.

Chris Burress: I mean exactly like Matt was talking about, how do you back into… So in his case it was, what are the activities that led to a placement, right? In this case you’re like, “What are the activities that lead to a sale lead to revenue?” And you can back into this really easy and just say, “Okay, so we know that say 10 forms becomes a customer’s, or three phone calls become a customer.” And if you’re using CallRail or any sort of caller tracking that ties into Google and tells you where the traffic came from, then you should be able to identify the forms and the phone calls that came from organic traffic, and at what percentage of those convert.

Matt Bertram: So what’s really interesting is… Sorry to all you clients out there. But every time I’ve asked a client how many calls do they convert.

Chris Burress: Yeah, what’s the conversion rate?

Matt Bertram: What’s the conversion… They are like, “One out of three.” Maximum out of 10. Nobody as a business owner-

Chris Burress: Is that their answer? Because [crosstalk 00:24:23].

Matt Bertram: Yeah, that’s their… They believe that out of every phone call that comes in, typically this is what I’ve found, one out of three is kind of a lot of the answer I get or one out of 10. But when I start going, “Is it one out of 10, one out of 20, out of 30?”

Chris Burress: That doesn’t convert or?

Matt Bertram: Well no, they believe that one out of three people from a lead based standpoint-

Chris Burress: Will convert.

Matt Bertram: … will convert, that they convert that. And also, a lot of them believe their biggest source of businesses referrals, right? So these are myths out there. And when I look at the data, there’s very few businesses that even one out of 10 convert. So when you’re running the numbers for clients-

Chris Burress: It’s lees than 10%. It’s less or more?

Matt Bertram: It’s more.

Chris Burress: More, a lot more.

Matt Bertram: It’s significantly more. So, the [inaudible 00:25:12] that doesn’t count. What they mean is, good leads. Not all leads, good leads. But I don’t know, I’m just… I’m none out of a little soapbox. But really, the data doesn’t lie.

Chris Burress: And you know-

Matt Bertram: And it’s really good to have the data and look at the data and then make decisions about that. And really, what we’ve done with the number of clients is that there’s no visibility to say, Hey, we need to let this run for a month. Maybe we throw some heat maps on the website and let’s just see what happens to get some data, because you’re asking me to commit to a certain number of sales based on the marketing. And we can almost do that, but I know a lot of clients go, “Well, if I spend this, I want this, I want it to be a A to B, kind of connection line.” And sometimes it’s tough. The only way to be able to do that, is data based on past data, like base future projections.

Chris Burress: Pre-imposed data.

Matt Bertram: Yeah. That’s the only way. So, you got to have good data in to get good data out.

Chris Burress: So usually, step one, a client comes in and we need to build out a website. We take their old or existing website and get analytics if they don’t have it on there, or get fresh analytics if they don’t… Aren’t going to have access to it moving forward. And so, that we’ve got a pre and a post situation, where we can actually look at the [crosstalk 00:26:34].

Matt Bertram: And we take a snapshot of where they’re at and then where they’re going to go, and really try to explain what they’re going to get on that journey, right?

Chris Burress: Yep. So, he’s talks in about, how do you identify the value of say, a form submission? For example, if you have 25 customers and they each spend $500, then you make $12,500. Divide that total by your original 100 leads, so let’s say it came out of a hundred leads, and you could determine that each lead is worth on average $125. And so, then you could say, “Hey, when a form submission happens, that’s worth $125. When a phone call happens, that’s worth $125.” And there’s a way in Google and Google Analytics, to assign the value of $125 to those particular activities. By the way, punch in the face to those of you on YouTube, are checking us out and actually watching live.

Matt Bertram: And that a positive thing for you that haven’t seen it.

Chris Burress: Yes, punch in the faces.

Matt Bertram: Because if he punches me in the face right now, it’s a good thing.

Chris Burress: All right. So, he just broke down this example and again you can… We’re going to look at what the revenue was and this is either e-commerce revenue or if it was like the revenue that was based on how many leads and what the value of a lead was. If your revenue from organic traffic is $100,000 in a month and you paid an SEO company $20,000 to do keyword research, publish new content during the same timeframe… I like how he breaks SEO down into two unbelievably simple things, keyword research and publishing new content. Because there’s a lot more. Then your ROI would be $80,000. Now, that’s absolutely true, right? So ROI, return on investment, you invested $20,000, the SEO-

Matt Bertram: He said other search engine related SEOs things.

Chris Burress: Yeah.

Matt Bertram: Come on. I mean, you can’t say it all in the article.

Chris Burress: Okay, that’s true.

Matt Bertram: Look I like… Hey, I like this guy, you’re knocking on it.

Chris Burress: No, I’m not.

Matt Bertram: Yeah. Go into the next part.

Chris Burress: Now let me knock on him. So, I take a little bit of exception with him calling $80,000, the ROI. Because at the end of the day… And we just take it one step further where, okay yes, that’s $80,000 of revenue, but what’s the actual profit from that $80,000. If you say half of 50% margin, then it’s $40,000, you should do it. If you’ve got a 25% margin, right? Then you’re at $20,000, it’s a break even situation and hopefully you’re taking into account lifetime value of the customer, right? So as an example, we mentioned the dentist customer earlier who we had to build out these email campaigns, because they weren’t following up on the leads that we were driving to them fast enough. A typical dental client-

Matt Bertram: 48 leads, didn’t convert on Facebook Ads.

Chris Burress: 48 leads.

Matt Bertram: And that was in two weeks, and it was our fault.

Chris Burress: And I promise you, they were not deceptive ads. We weren’t advertising-

Matt Bertram: [inaudible 00:29:26], come on.

Chris Burress: … kitten videos, and then they turn around and we’re trying to sell them dental service, that was not happening. So… But a typical dental client, lifetime value of a client, and this is an industry standard is $10,000 per customer. So each customer that we can get a dentist, is worth $10,000. That’s the real number that you should be using, when you’re talking about an ROI.

Matt Bertram: Well, eventually was that over a 30 year period or a 10 year period or something?

Chris Burress: That was lifetime value.

Matt Bertram: So what’s the lifetime? 30 years?

Chris Burress: It depends on the-

Matt Bertram: So then [crosstalk 00:29:58].

Chris Burress: … if they are 80.

Matt Bertram: Break this down to beans. They can count the beans.

Chris Burress: So what it really is… So for the lifetime of that customer, for that dental practice, whatever that means-

Matt Bertram: But what if they need the money right now?

Chris Burress: All right then, so you have a cash flow.

Matt Bertram: [crosstalk 00:30:11].

Chris Burress: You’ve got cashflow versus a lifetime value, right? And so, there are two things you’ve got to take into account, for sure.

Matt Bertram: But, I do like Chris. That’s one thing that we do really well as a company is, take everything to that kind of next level.

Chris Burress: Next level.

Matt Bertram: And really break it down. I see where he’s going, you can see this [crosstalk 00:30:32].

Chris Burress: That’s not inaccurate. I’m just trying to knock him, it’s not inaccurate.

Matt Bertram: No, keep on. This is good stuff.

Chris Burress: Yeah. So, really that’s it. He goes on to calculate the ROI percentage, which is just a little bit of a calculation, like how do you get the percentage?

Matt Bertram: I’m in calculate… The next part is talking about social media channels. Calculate your-

Chris Burress: ROI.

Matt Bertram: … ROI on organic social media.

Chris Burress: This is an exercise we’re going to ask you to do. You’re doing organic social, maybe you are, maybe you aren’t-

Matt Bertram: You’re already paying a lot of money to somebody for that.

Chris Burress: I want you to calculate the ROI on your… Not you’re paid, right? Because we do paid and I highly recommend it. Calculate your ROI on your organic Facebook efforts. How many dollars do you spend on labor? Or maybe it’s outsourced or whatever. And then, how many dollars does that turn into? And share it with us. Send us an email, [email protected], and we’d love to get your feedback on that.

Matt Bertram: There’s a attribution model, that’s hard to verify. I can tell you the algorithm change last March, is what crushed it for me. I completely abandoned it, Facebook organic. And really, I am generated off my own personal LinkedIn, which I haven’t really gotten into automation yet because it’s just too busy. I actually hire someone to do it. But content calendar, throwing out content, generate a quarter million views on my LinkedIn. I’ve gotten about a call every other week of people that find it and then schedule appointments with me. I have one yesterday. I forget about it. I’m like, “How did you find us?”

Chris Burress: My LinkedIn efforts.

Matt Bertram: My LinkedIn efforts, right? So, really look at the ROI. I don’t… Well no, one of those did convert. Actually one of those converted. I mean I’ve been doing it for about six months, so one of them converted about $2,000 a month client. But Facebook, I really haven’t seen the results and I look at a lot of industries, and not knocking all you people that just do social media agencies out there, you really need to move into more influence marketing. I’m not a big fan of Facebook organic advertising. And I know a lot of people are spending money on it, so…

Chris Burress: Yeah, a lot of people. All right, so you could calculate that percentage of ROI and then that’s the number that you take back to your client and you say, “Hey, this is the return on investment. Do you want to continue services or not?” And then, you might end up in Adrian… Adriana. What was her name?

Matt Bertram: Alex.

Chris Burress: Alexandra.

Matt Bertram: Well, she signed off, Alex, so I’m just going to call her Alex.

Chris Burress: Alex, okay. You can go back to where Alex is and say, “Hey, now I’m delivering all this value. I’m delivering all these leads, and if you are converting them properly then you would obviously be extending the contract. Let me help you.”

Matt Bertram: We’re going to have some general topics that we’re going to go over and what’s going on with… As your local [inaudible 00:33:19] and stuff. And then, we’ll have a special day the next day, where we’ll pick a business, like a marketing business. And I’ll help analyze what’s going on, what they need to do, and even if they… Well hopefully… Well, a lot of people are coming for our grand opening actually outside-

Chris Burress: June 13th if you guys are available plan on being here.

Matt Bertram: For Houston. But I’ll look at coming for a day and working with some different agencies and maybe I can get some talks set up along the way. But I can tell you, I feel like this whole thing is a case study for her business, this shows… I have a question. And we’ve devoted a whole podcast unintentionally to answer it, which I think is pretty cool.

Chris Burress: It is very cool. We love to deliver results and value. All right. So, that really is a great article. Adam Heitzman, punch in the face to you for such a good article, we really appreciate it. And I’m glad Matt was able to convince me. It wasn’t that I hadn’t read it thoroughly-

Matt Bertram: I mean, look at this picture. You got money, stacks of money on a keyboard.

Chris Burress: Benjamin’s.

Matt Bertram: Benjamin. Wonder if his name was Benjamin. Benjamin Heights.

Chris Burress: Benjamin [crosstalk 00:34:26].

Matt Bertram: No… Actually I was looking at…

Chris Burress: You were like, “This must be [crosstalk 00:34:32].”

Matt Bertram: I was looking at the ad.

Chris Burress: Oh, yeah. It’s kind of funny. All right. So, that’s the meat of our podcast. We’ve skipped a little bit of the potatoes of our podcast just because we… Matt went on a rant there. I feel like it was valuable that I would have cut you off.

Matt Bertram: [crosstalk 00:34:50].

Chris Burress: You’re scaring the podcast listeners. Take it down a notch. So, if you like this podcast, we’re going to ask you to do something. Yes, do something simple. Go ahead and share this podcast… I don’t know, maybe with three people. Share with-

Matt Bertram: That you feel would be valuable to them, because if you share something of value, people appreciate. You just share it with random people, they’re unappreciative.

Chris Burress: Yeah. [inaudible 00:35:17] that’s called irritating. If you’re looking to grow your business with the largest, simplest marketing tool on the planet-

Matt Bertram: The internet.

Chris Burress: Call eWebResults for increased profit in your business, you can reach us at (713) 592-6724. If you have a referral, Matt mentioned, we’re going to work on a for-referral network where those kinds of maybe aren’t the best fit for us, we want to be able to give those referrals to people who are in our referral network. If you have somebody who might be a good fit for us, a referral, send them to us and when they pay their bill, we pay you. We’ve got lots of people who have given us referrals and are earning a monthly commission off of those referrals. Oh, we have a new address. Oh, thank you because I’m going to need that address here in just one minute.

Matt Bertram: And we were filmed live.

Chris Burress: Please remember, we were filmed live here at, 13105 Northwest Freeway, Houston, Texas 77040-

Matt Bertram: Houston.

Chris Burress: Houston, H town. If you would like a video audio or a transcript of this podcast-

Matt Bertram: Our suite number, come on.

Chris Burress: Oh, suite 500.

Matt Bertram: And 30-35.

Chris Burress: -35. If you would like video audio or a transcript of this podcast, you can get all three of those, at our website, Remember we have T-shirts. Right? Matt is sporting one of those-

Matt Bertram: Get that pic… [inaudible 00:36:40] the camera on the other angle.

Chris Burress: One of the shirts-

Matt Bertram: You got it [Ethan 00:36:42]? Boom.

Chris Burress: Boom, yeah.

Matt Bertram: So this is what I found. So people listen to our podcast on 4X. [inaudible 00:36:50] or anything.

Chris Burress: Because we’ve heard it on 4X, and we don’t understand what [crosstalk 00:36:54] .

Matt Bertram: We don’t understand what we said and we were here for it. Well the other thing that I’m finding people are doing is, because we’re full of nonsense sometimes, a little bit-

Chris Burress: Full of rants sometimes.

Matt Bertram: Yeah. And people don’t want that. So they get the transcript and they just read it. And I’ve found that to be the case with videos. If you’re trying to pull something out, the transcription works really well to get right into it.

Chris Burress: Get to the meat.

Matt Bertram: Skim it, without watching. But I know a lot of people are driving or working out or… Whatever. Everyone is doing a multitask-

Chris Burress: Be safe.

Matt Bertram: Please be safe. But, thank you all we enjoyed it.

Chris Burress: You have made us the most popular internet marketing podcast on iTunes, so we really appreciate it.

Matt Bertram: Soon to be on Amazon, because we’ll be like… There’ll only be two. So…

Chris Burress: Yeah. It will be one or two. Until the next podcast, my name is Chris Burress.

Matt Bertram: And my name is Matt Bertram.

Chris Burress: Bye-bye for now.