#447-B – Facebook Ads vs. Google AdWords: Which one should you be using? Part 2
2019

 
 
00:00 / 27:56
 
1X
 
Senator, we run ads, too!
Join Matt and Chris for another thrilling episode of the Best SEO Podcast, featuring “Facebook Ads vs. Google AdWords: Which should you be using?” by WordStream.
TRANSCRIPT:

Chris Burres:
Hi, and welcome to the SEO podcast. Unknown secrets of internet marketing. My name is Chris Burres, owner of eweb results.

Matt Bertram:
My name is Matt Bertram, your web design wizard.

Chris Burres:
Web design wizard! I think you need to say that like web design wizard.

Matt Bertram:
I like that.

Chris Burres:
Auto tune it maybe?

Matt Bertram:
They’re closing the door, they don’t want to hear us.

Chris Burres:
Nobody wants to hear.

Matt Bertram:
No one wants to hear that.

Chris Burres:
Hopefully you want to hear us. This is podcast number 447B. Yes it is 447B-

Matt Bertram:
There’s a reason it’s B.

Chris Burres:
Yeah, because it’s the second part of this article, and we’re going to cover a couple of things here. We are broadcasting live from Houston, Texas. Matt and I, we are your results rebels. I didn’t have a review. Not because there wasn’t one, I just didn’t have time to put together one, and Matt and I have been so busy.

Chris Burres:
Things are going gangbusters. I think that’s the right way to say it and so we’re like, let’s get on a podcast.

Matt Bertram:
Gangnam style.

Chris Burres:
Chris, don’t worry about the review so we’re not going to torture you with how you leave us a review because-

Matt Bertram:
We’re getting a lot of reviews so thank you, you already know how to do it.

Chris Burres:
Yeah.

Matt Bertram:
Eweb results, whatever we should show up. We’re an internet marketing company.

Chris Burres:
If you’ve never been here before, this is your first podcast. Howdy and welcome to the podcast. If you’re back, you know that we’re going to one, skip that system, skip that section, and you’re probably looking for online marketing tips. I don’t know. That might be a reason they would come back to an online marketing podcast.

Matt Bertram:
Is that why?

Chris Burres:
Does that make sense?

Matt Bertram:
Yeah I guess so.

Chris Burres:
If you’re interested in them, you can get them just by going to ewebresults.com/seotip.

Matt Bertram:
Or you can read this book.

Chris Burres:
How many pages is that book?

Matt Bertram:
This book is actually, I just finished it and it is 952 pages. So you can listen to this podcast and get these tips or you can read this book and you get the tips too, but it’s not as much fun.

Chris Burres:
Yeah. I choose to listen to the podcast instead of reading that. It’s a lot, right? It is absolutely a lot. This is part two of our article. The article actually was Facebook ads versus Google ad words, which should you be using? It’s kind of like the showdown of Google AdWords versus Facebook. Last podcast we covered Google Ad Words and all the details. So go back and check that out so you can figure out what’s the value in AdWords cause we talk about that. And then stay tuned for this podcast because, and we’re about to get it started, and we’re going to learn about Facebook ads and how they compare and contrast with-

Matt Bertram:
I’m wearing like my Google shirt and I should have been wearing my Facebook shirt. Planning.

Chris Burres:
Yes. If you would like a free website analysis, we can get one of those for you.

Matt Bertram:
And we’re not talking some automated click here, we grab your email address and spam you website analysis. You actually sit down with one of our internet marketing experts, and get 20 to 30 minutes with them to get some actionable tips. We’ve had really great success with this. A lot of people have called in really like it, so please if you’re interested in talking to a online marketing expert, getting some real tips to take your business to the next level. Check out our free website now.

Chris Burres:
It’s like a free mini coaching session.

Matt Bertram:
Yeah it’s awesome.

Chris Burres:
On like what to do for your internet marketing strategies moving forward so that’s a lot of value. Just go to the website and click the button, get your free website analysis. You’ll get it there. Hey if you want a tee shirt, right? If you’re kind of an internet marketing geek like us and you really appreciate internet marketing and kind of internet marketing humor and wearing a tee shirt that talks about SEO, talks about PVC, talks about content marketing, talks about-

Matt Bertram:
Oh we got a perfect one! We got a shirt for this podcast for Facebook. Senator, we run ads too. For any of you geeks out there you’d get it. But we’ve made a spin on the tee shirt.

Chris Burres:
I think we have a new one. Guardians of the marketing. Have you seen that?

Matt Bertram:
I haven’t seen that one.

Matt Bertram:
We have so many that are [crosstalk 00:04:06] but we need to get Havi to add those up cause I was actually looking to order a few, and the new ones are not up there. So I mean the Star Wars one has done very well, and we had a couple of guys at 10x.

Chris Burres:
May the rank be with you.

Matt Bertram:
May the rank be with you. They were at 10x in Miami this last week and weekend, and we’re wearing our shirts and got a lot of great feedback on that. So for all you out there, 10xers.

Chris Burres:
eweb results.com/swag to get those shirts. Make your selection. All right, let’s jump into the article that is the potatoes of the podcast. Let’s get into the meat. Again, Facebook ads versus Google AdWords, which should you be using? We kind of brush through advertising.

Matt Bertram:
I got the answer, it depends. It depends.

Chris Burres:
I also have another answer. Probably both. Probably both.

Matt Bertram:
Unless you’re in the new, like what is it? CBD market or you’re in the Bitcoin market cause you can’t do ads, right? So you can only do influencer marketing or SEO. And if you’re doing SEO, you should call us. If you’re doing influence marketing, we got some references or referrals for you. Very challenging murky market. Be careful of influencer marketing, but if you want some follow the yellow brick road SEO. We got it for you.

Chris Burres:
Did you just say follow the yellow brick road SEO?

Matt Bertram:
Yeah.

Chris Burres:
Is that one of the tee shirts we need to make now?

Matt Bertram:
The Wizard of Oz. Did you know that was my favorite show growing up? My parents and I used to watch it over and over and over.

Chris Burres:
I believe it. My kids are watching it. They enjoyed it too. Very cool. All right, so we’ve talked about AdWords. Now we’re going to talk the strengths and advantages of Facebook ads. Today, Facebook ads is a pioneer in the sphere of paid social and it has become a central part of many businesses, digital marketing strategies. That’s absolutely true. A lot of our campaigns now, especially when you’re talking about a full sales funnel that will deliver to you, includes Facebook ads because it’s important.

Matt Bertram:
Oh, okay. Facebook funnel. Okay, so I know a lot of you, we talked about Facebook-

Chris Burres:
[inaudible 00:06:17] right on the monitor now.

Matt Bertram:
So if you’re out there on YouTube, we love you YouTubers, so basically whatever it is, SEO, AdWords, so it’s really Google, right? SEO is, I guess is Bing, but not really. So SEO, Facebook, everything goes into the funnel. Okay. So you get them there and you get them to a landing page or a website. And then you hit them with remarketing, retargeting on Facebook. That’s like Amazon follows you around, you click on a website, shows up in your Facebook feed, love it, right? Bring them back, try and get them maybe to download something or something like that, and then get them to contact you for a free, whatever your consultation is. Try to put some kind of value associated with that. But it’s like a two step process. And then if they filled out the downloadable, hit them with emails. Now remarketing is just kind of like emails without the emails, but that’s when we’re talking about Facebook funnel, what we’re talking about. All right. Quick.

Matt Bertram:
[crosstalk 00:07:18] That was a little footnote.

Chris Burres:
Yes, for sure. So by the way, you mentioned Bing and dismissed it. And that’s okay. [crosstalk 00:07:27]

Matt Bertram:
Facebook gives them an API and so you can see what your friends see on Bing. Bing’s trying really hard. Bing’s taking a different approach. Okay. Check it out.

Chris Burres:
Hold on.

Matt Bertram:
No, I’ve got to tell you about this.

Chris Burres:
All right.

Matt Bertram:
So, okay, so what-

Chris Burres:
This is a good workout just moving that book around.

Matt Bertram:
So I put a sticker on, we need to have like a library of people who want to get good reference books. Like this is a you approved. Anyways. So here’s the thing. So Bing knows it can’t take on Goliath of Google.

Chris Burres:
Ironically Microsoft Bing knows it can’t take on Goliath.

Matt Bertram:
Well they bought LinkedIn, right? So they’re doing something right, but here’s the thing. So they are trying to sidestep it and say, hey, search is going to be part of everyday life. So your watch, see the watch.

Chris Burres:
Yep.

Matt Bertram:
Well the Google glasses failed, but now wearables, right? And so really Bing’s going after your relationships, how you’re wearing stuff, like all this kind of stuff. So they’re really taking a different approach. We don’t know if it’s going to work. I don’t know, you talked about Bing, I don’t think they’re a big deal, anytime you run ads or SEO or anything like that. The only thing that’s really different in my opinion of Bing is if you’re using meta tags, okay. Meta tags don’t work anymore. So if you’re using meta tags, Bing considers them spam, Google just doesn’t care about them at all. They’re an old SEO strategy, and really from the standpoint of Bing, right now for me looking at Ad Words, looking at SEO, if I do everything right with Google I’ll just index it with Bing or index with the aggregators. And that’s all I do because really it’s like 10 to one really, as far as traffic goes. I mean it’s because it’s under 15% 10%. Go ahead.

Chris Burres:
Be aware of your target audience. So be aware of your target audience cause we’ve got one client, me, right? My other company, they have one 10th the traffic, so Bing, and this is organic, has one 10th the traffic of Google, but double the conversion rate, right? So the double then this is like eCommerce data coming through the whole system. So we know there’s like a 4% conversion rate on Bing, and a 2% conversion rate on Google organic.

Matt Bertram:
So here’s the interesting thing. So the people that use Bing, based on the data, is people that don’t know how to get to-

Chris Burres:
Older, less technologically savvy people.

Matt Bertram:
Or business people that are- [crosstalk 00:10:00]

Matt Bertram:
In an environment where they can’t download anything or anything like that. But usually if you’re targeting to the affluent or you’re talking to the baby boomers, Bing is something to look at and consider. So you’re right, I guess the core of our business right now.

Chris Burres:
There’s two caveats, right? When you have 1/10th the traffic, double the conversion, still doesn’t amount to much. And it’s very interesting, and kind of prompted me to like drive the team, hey listen, and we already were, let’s make sure that we’ve got our AdWords campaign migrated over to Bing-

Matt Bertram:
Well, so I’m seeing rises, not significant, but in Duck Duck Go. And then what’s interesting is something that I’m experimenting with right now is there’s a lot of things with SEO. And if you do it good with Google, Bing usually follows suit. Even if you look at their AdWords style platform, right? They made it very similar. You can export it and that sort of thing. Yeah. So, but what I’m seeing is, Ask or Ask Jeeves or whatever it was-

Chris Burres:
Jeeves.

Matt Bertram:
So ask.com is a really good question style, right? And that’s like the semantic line and that’s where everything’s going. And so I’m kind of playing around with asking questions there, and seeing what it means on Google right now. So I’m running a little split test and trying some stuff out there. But anyways-

Chris Burres:
Back in the lab thing, in the results lab.

Matt Bertram:
I need to get my white jacket on. There’s actually something that shows that that increases authority. So they recommend like chiropractors and anybody should wear the jacket cause there’s a white coat like trust and all that.

Chris Burres:
Yep. For sure.

Chris Burres:
So strengths and advantages. Back to the topic of Facebook, we got a little off there. Sales funnel. Bang. We’ve got some notes on that. Now, unparalleled audience granularity, right?

Matt Bertram:
Yes.

Chris Burres:
First off, Facebook boasts a truly vast global audience, more than 1.55 billion monthly active users. Yes. That’s mind blowing. That’s 1/5th of the entire worlds population is active at least one day per month on Facebook.

Matt Bertram:
Including Mars, and the moon too.

Chris Burres:
It’s intergalactic. All of them.

Matt Bertram:
The numbers are very similar.

Chris Burres:
It’s a smudge. In the Delta, those astronauts that are out there.

Chris Burres:
Facebook has no rival when it comes to the enormity of its audience, just not even close. And then Facebook, some of its power lies in the potential granularity with which advertisers can target Facebook ads. You know, you wrote, where’s that pen? You wrote out on the board before. And there’s three things really about marketing that are important, right?

Matt Bertram:
This is the first time you’ve ever written on the board. I feel like this is-

Chris Burres:
A monumentous moment yeah. Is it a moment, like a Google moment? Target, offer, number three is copy, right? So if you have a great target, if you’ve targeted your people well and you put a reasonable copy and a reasonable offer in front of them, that’s even marginally written, it doesn’t even have to be written perfectly, then you’re probably going to get a sale. And so I use this example sometimes when I’m talking at events, I’ll use the example of let’s say you have an offer and you’re wanting to sell, I don’t know, let’s sell dental chairs, right?

Chris Burres:
And you’re going to put it in the lobby. You’re going to put this offer on a poster board in the middle of a lobby of a hotel.

Matt Bertram:
Okay.

Chris Burres:
So all these people walking by, probably not your target audience, right? Even if there is a dental convention at that location, in the lobby is probably not the best place to have it. But what if you take that particular, that same poster board and you actually stick it in the room where the dentists are meeting for the events. How much more effective is that going to be for you? So target, they say on a scale, it’s not a scale of one to 10 across all of these, it’s nine out of 10. Like you need to spend as much time as possible on your target.

Matt Bertram:
And so just to speak to target, I think we can touch on offer and copy real quick. But really when you’re talking about target, AdWords does take you right to that target. Well actually people are searching for it. So they’re coming to you [crosstalk 00:14:15].

Matt Bertram:
So anybody that’s listening to these pockets for research-

Chris Burres:
That’s search.

Matt Bertram:
So that’s harvesting demand.

Chris Burres:
Yeah.

Matt Bertram:
Okay. Now Facebook is the one that generates the demand. Basically you go right up to the right person, the right target. You go, hey, you want to buy this? But what’s super important is what is your offer? Because what you’re doing is you’re showing an ad, what’s an ad? What’s the transition of ad from print to online? It’s coupons. Okay. So if you don’t have a good offer and you’re showing an ad and if that’s your intent, is to sell something as an ad based thing. Cause a lot of people run ads without any kind of offer.

Chris Burres:
Just for branding.

Matt Bertram:
Yeah, for branding but you got to know why you’re running the ad, but you’ve got to have a really good offer. And then what are you trying to explain? Remember so in my book I talk about this, a goldfish has a nine second attention span by Microsoft study. You know a US citizen on average, not to knock anybody cause you know Superbowl’s awesome.

Chris Burres:
But I did pay attention for about eight seconds.

Matt Bertram:
But you have about eight seconds.

Chris Burres:
About eight seconds of my attention. The rest of it was for the commercials. Yeah so target, offer, copy. The offer needs to be strong, right? So you should spend nine out of 10 in terms of effort. Offer should be about five out of 10, and then copy is really about three out of 10. You know, you just need to make sure the grammar is right and make sure that you’ve worded your offer in a way that they can understand it. That’s not like complicated, complex copy. Now if your billboards in the lobby and it’s not in that particular room, then your offer and your copy needs to be a lot stronger to catch the attention of that dentist who’s walking by on the way to the room that he’s going into. So those things need to be much more powerful. So targeting is the number one. You cannot get more granular than on Facebook. I hope.

Matt Bertram:
Well so you can even, I don’t know where we’re at in this article cause it seems like it’s just you and I talking. But here’s what I can tell you with Facebook to Axiom. You can go super granular target, and you can use off page data to target their credit score. Like if I bought a car, house, all that sort of thing. They changed it after the big hoopla where, you know, Senator, we run ads kind of thing. Basically it got pulled back, came back. You got to spend at least five grand a month now. To be able to have access to the data. Same kind of thing happened with the Google beacon, right? You now have to have an app to carry a goal through, like if you’re a car dealership or something like that.

Chris Burres:
To pop up on somebody’s phone.

Matt Bertram:
That’s what’s happening right now. There used to be silver bullets of AdWords, of Facebook and really, now it’s becoming a multichannel strategy. These industries are starting to become mature, and they’re starting to raise kind of the bar a little bit. And so it’s really, really important that if you’re going to compete in online world where everything’s going, is you’ve got to get everything on point because it’s getting tougher.

Chris Burres:
You don’t slap together a campaign and throw a couple of tactics at it. You need to have a strategy.

Chris Burres:
People share, as we know, almost every conceivable detail of their lives on Facebook. Birth of children, celebration of new career moves, joys and accomplishments, life milestones, all of that is information that Facebook can draw on to give you really powerful targeting, and we know how important that is. Look alike audiences, so AdWords has some lookalike audience also, but you got to be in the 50K per month ad spend to be able to turn that feature.

Matt Bertram:
They changed that?

Chris Burres:
Yeah that’s what I heard from the team this morning. I checked with them.

Matt Bertram:
God they keep changing stuff.

Chris Burres:
Yeah. Advertisers, in this case with lookalike audiences, advertisers can upload customer information from their own database to Facebook, which Facebook applies their own filtering and all of that good stuff, and then they create a lookalike audience. So again, if you’ve uploaded your customer list, and it’s substantial enough that Facebook can extract some information about them, then that’s targeting and now it’s going to show ads to those people who match that targeting.

Matt Bertram:
That’s what we’ve had to do for a number of people, on a number of campaigns is we’ve had to upload their existing customer lists to build out the audience to target, and it’s like, hey, what are all these people have in common? They use complex algorithms to figure it out. But a lookalike audience can take maybe a thousand people or 50,000 people apparently, but a thousand people, and make 5-10,000 people that you can target. Actually on Facebook, I don’t know the exact increase, but it’s probably like a 10X or even a 50X-

Chris Burres:
Of your current list.

Matt Bertram:
Because we’ve done that for a couple of clients, and they’ve had pretty healthy ad spend and we did run out of money on a few of them. And so bottom line is look alike audiences. I think if you have a good target list that’s statistically significant, you can really get a lot of bang for your buck when you use some of that targeting.

Chris Burres:
Absolutely. And then just to be clear, with AdWords, you got to spend $50,000. [crosstalk 00:19:32].

Matt Bertram:
Well that’s crazy. Like they’re changing stuff now and it’s getting a little tougher to compete.

Chris Burres:
So the question is, does Facebook advertising work? Yes it does. It works remarkably well. There’s no better way to get close to your ideal client. Best Facebook ads. So here’s another, you were going to say something?

Matt Bertram:
No.

Chris Burres:
Here’s another blend. Here’s another interesting thing, right? So really the right thing to do is not necessarily to compare Facebook to AdWords, at least not AdWords search. Cause those are two very different animals. But you certainly could compare it to face AdWords display. Right? So the display network. Think about when you’ve seen ads, you’re reading a blog and there’s an ad.

Matt Bertram:
That 50k might be search, because I’ve done it recently with display, with not that much.

Chris Burres:
Match to do a look alike audience?

Matt Bertram:
Yeah.

Chris Burres:
Okay. Oh, 50K lifetime spend. [crosstalk 00:20:34].

Matt Bertram:
Yeah. 50k lifetime. Yep.

Chris Burres:
All right.

Matt Bertram:
Because I was like this is crazy. 50k a month?

Chris Burres:
So yeah, so that is not as hard to get to. So what I was saying is, so if you think about the display ads right, and you’re on a blog, you see like when they put in a Google ad, it’s got a little box, and it says ad in it or it’s a banner on the right side. It’s not part of the experience of reading that particular blog article. On Facebook when you’re looking at your feed, those ads blend native. Yes, it says sponsored, but they blend in and like you’re looking at it and you’re whatever. Maybe you’re watching marching bands and then whoever is a smart marketer has put a marching band in their ad.

Chris Burres:
Now you’re like, oh, this is just another marching band. Let me click it, and now you’re in an ad. It’s really powerful. Yeah. You’re going to say something?

Matt Bertram:
I got a lot of stuff to say, but I’m going to, let’s keep going.

Chris Burres:
Just as Google is constantly experimenting with formatting of its text ads. Facebook constantly evaluates to ensure they’re looking for two things, right? They want to increase ad revenue, but just like Google, the intelligent thing that they’ve done is they’re focused on the customer experience. That’s why they backed off the freebie if you will, post. Like so as a business and they’ve gone through two iterations of kind of trimming the fat. As a business if you’re posting on your feed, those people who had liked and followed you would see your stuff. Like I think two years ago they cut that back and then in March of last year they cut it back even more. And so now you’ve got to pay to play.

Matt Bertram:
Well, so one of the things that’s interesting and I got to double check this, but I recently heard and haven’t checked, cause this was like in the last week or so. Basically you could see all the ads that other people ran, all your competitors, and I had someone build an index of all those ads, but I think they just pulled it back, because I knew it wasn’t going to be around forever. It was when politically it heated up, they showed it to everybody and I think they’re slowly pulling it back. So it might not be all industries. I don’t know exactly how I heard it. Don’t quote me on it. But if there are people out there that are your competitors, you can go see what ads they’re running. I would encourage you to go kind of capture.

Chris Burres:
Download that, and take screenshots.

Matt Bertram:
Yeah. And also in AdWords and Bing, in your search console. Just side note for SEO, sorry, you only have 90 days for your key returns. So you need to be going in and downloading that all the time.

Chris Burres:
Know what those phrases are.

Chris Burres:
Incredible ROI. So businesses and marketers experimenting with Facebook ads are often impressed by the granularity. We’ve talked about that. Advertisers can stretch a limited ad budget on the platform. That’s the Facebook platform. So keep that in mind. Facebook ads are remarkably affordable. That is absolutely true. Combined with remarkable potential for returns offered by the platform, Facebook ads are one of the best value.

Chris Burres:
Now remember, yes, there’s an incredible ROI available. You want to take that ROI and put it on steroids? Make sure that you’re doing A B testing, right? So you should be doing A B testing on all your ads. This is just a place where you can really multiply your results.

Matt Bertram:
Check out on Expresso it automates some of it for you.

Chris Burres:
So this is image versus video. And if you’re running video, what thumbnail, this thumbnail versus that thumbnail. Make sure you’re doing those.

Chris Burres:
All right. So two platforms should be viewed as a complimentary rather than adversarial way. I agree. So the title of the article is Facebook ads versus Google AdWords, which should you be using? Depends or both?

Matt Bertram:
It depends on what your strategy is, but they’re both powerful, powerful tools.

Chris Burres:
Yeah. This is a great article by wordstream.com so punch in the face to those guys. They’re doing some great content marketing, they’re putting out some great content.

Matt Bertram:
Yeah, I would say I think their platforms a little old. I think that’s a little overpriced and that’s my personal opinion. Sorry Kim.

Chris Burres:
But happy to spread the word of a really good article they put together.

Matt Bertram:
Yeah, no, I think they’re coming out with some new products, but yeah. So.

Chris Burres:
And it sounds like you believe it’s time that they come out with some new products. So that’s really good timing.

Matt Bertram:
I’m a great endorser right?

Chris Burres:
Well they didn’t pay us to cover it, so I think we’re in good shape. All right, so if you liked this podcast, we’re going to ask you to do something really simple. Go ahead and share it with, I don’t know, three?

Matt Bertram:
Yeah let’s do it right now.

Chris Burres:
Somebody who is now an internet marketer or somebody who’s a business owner responsible for internet marketing, just share that. Pop it off in an email, get it out to somebody cause thank you. We’d like to have more listeners and answer more questions and deliver more value. One of our missions here at eweb results is to help 10 million businesses grow by delivering wow marketing results. And this podcast is one of the ways that we can target those 10 million businesses.

Matt Bertram:
LinkedIn ads are powerful and we’ll have to cover that in a different story. They are expensive too, but they’re extremely powerful and there’s actually some organic ways to take advantage of LinkedIn that we can talk about at another time.

Chris Burres:
If you are looking to grow your business with the largest, simplest marketing tool on the planet. Call ewebresults for increased revenue in your business. Our phone number is (713) 592-6724. If you have a referral, so that’s somebody who maybe needs a website or a sales funnel, or a landing page, or pay-per-click, or maybe Facebook ads. Since we’ve been talking about those.

Matt Bertram:
Or if you need videos, call [inaudible 00:25:56].

Chris Burres:
Randy, he’s connected with us right now. Yeah, if you need any of that or if you know somebody who needs that, go to our website, there’s a referral form, fill that out and we’ll record that lead as yours. And when they start paying us, we’ll start paying you or the charity of your choice.

Matt Bertram:
Or you can get a tee shirt.

Chris Burres:
You can probably get lots of tee shirts.

Matt Bertram:
And a book!

Chris Burres:
All right, so please remember we were filmed live here at 5999 West 34th street, Suite 106 Houston, Texas 77092. If you want audio, video or a transcript of this podcast, you can get that at ewebresults.com. We are the most popular internet marketing podcast on iTunes. That is because of all of y’all.

Matt Bertram:
And Spotify, and Pod o Matic. And what, there’s like three or-

Chris Burres:
Fincher is one of them.

Matt Bertram:
We’re on a bunch. Yeah. Yeah. Leave us a review. Let us know.

Chris Burres:
We really appreciate you until the next podcast, my name is Chris Burres.

Matt Bertram:
My name’s Matt Bertram.
Both Together:
Bye bye for now.