Back in the day, aspiring digital marketers in the SEO game could get away with a set of formulaic moves that would all but guarantee a top spot. Nowadays it’s different – search engine optimization has evolved to such a degree that it very nearly emulates real world marketing; that is, marketing for the people.
Join Matt and Chris for another thrilling episode of the Best SEO Podcast, featuring “9 SEO Hacks No One Talks About” by Brian Dean.
Chris: Hi and welcome to the SEO Podcast: Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Chris Burres, owner of eWebResults.
Matt: My name is Matt Bertram, your SEO Ninja!
Chris: The SEO Ninja! Welcome back to another fun-filled edition of this podcast. This is Podcast #440!
Chris: As always we have a tip from our previous podcast and that tip is…
Matt: Use automation! It makes your life better, there’s free tools out there!
Chris: Yes! You were in the last podcast, I was not in the last podcast. It was apparently about automation, and there are free automation tools out there, use them!
Chris & Matt: Subscribe, follow, Boom!
Chris: Alright. Let’s see, it’s been awhile. So we are broadcasting live here from Houston, Texas. Matt and I, we are your–
Chris & Matt: Results Rebels!
Chris: I got to jump into this review. This came in, it was from Grant Steinholt. It is of course…
Chris & Matt: 5 stars!
Chris: “This is an incredible help and resource. After recently finding this podcast, I have listened to shows dating many months prior. I have handled the SEO and SEM for a home improvement company and it’s helped me generate more leads.”
Matt: I love it!
Chris: Punch in the face to you, Grant! thank you so much! I wonder what home improvement company that is. might it be a really big one that we’ve heard of? Or let us know. Reach out to us.
Matt: We’ve had also comments about the sound quality, and also the thumbnail.
Chris: I thought all the sound quality was just related to your voice isn’t as loud as mine.
Matt: That could be it as well, that could be it as well. But now we have a whole videography team here with us.
Chris: Team, yup.
Matt: You know, we haven’t done all the other stuff, but we have lights. Not makeup yet, but it’s getting to a big deal, we’re moving to a new location, we have a full team.
Matt: So if the sound’s an issue please let us know and we will fix it. We are listening to your responses and we are making improvements.
Chris: Let us know, we now have a team that we can, you know?
Chris: Scream at.
Matt: Yeah, it’s just not us to do it. And we have a new thumbnail, so look for the bobbleheads, look for the bobbleheads.
Chris: Yeah, look for the bobbleheads.
Matt: Yeah, look at the bobble– show them the bobble– show them. Look for these guys. Yeah, look for these guys on the new podcast cover.
Chris: Oh, they rattle. That’s kind of cool. So if you have been to this podcast before then you’re probably interested in, I don’t know, the tips and tricks we may be handing out. So let’s get in here– yeah, I ended up clicking something over there.
Matt: Whoa! Whoa!
Chris: Oh, on the screen back here. So you might be interested in, “5 Online Marketing Mistakes that can Tank your Business & How to Avoid Them.” You can find that by going to eWebResults.com/
Matt: And we got a bunch!
Chris: Or SEOtip will actually take you there.
Matt: SEOtip too.
Chris: It’s maybe easier.
Matt: All roads lead to eWeb.
Chris: There’s a lot of valuable information there. So please go check it out. If this is the first time you’ve listened to the podcast…
Chris & Matt: Howdy.
Chris: And welcome to the podcast. If you’ve listened before, once again, well we got tips for you. Also–
Matt: Move it to the back of–
Chris: You know what we’re going to skip, right? And here’s what we’re going to skip: every week we run a contest, the contest looks like this: if we get a review – which we just read, and it was of course…
Chris & Matt: 5 stars!
Chris: And we get, what is it?
Matt: A shiko.
Chris: A shiko. What’s a shiko?
Matt: A shikow.
Chris: Shikow! What’s a shiko?
Matt: A share, a like and a follow.
Chris: So if we get 10 share, likes and follows on any one of our platforms, then we skip the section where we tell you how to leave us a review.
Matt: Because you already know!
Chris: We accomplished that, yeah. As you seem to know. So we’ve already accomplished that, so we’re going to skip that to the end. Hey, we have t-shirts. There are t-shirts available.
Matt: Yeah, there are. We got some good t-shirts.
Chris: They’re really pretty awesome t-shirts, we just ordered a whole second round for the whole office. You need to go check those out, eWebResults.com/
Matt: T-shirt– no. Swag.
Matt: /swag but no, if you have any t-shirt ideas send them our way, our–
Chris: Our designer?
Matt: Our designers.
Chris: Our t-shirt designers.
Matt: Our t-shirt designers are just going crazy with the t-shirts.
Chris: They’re standing by.
Matt: Yeah, they’re going crazy. We’re all like, “Hey, make like 1 or 2 shirts,” and they come back with 5 or 10. So we have tons of options. We love all the internet marketing, SEO, t-shirts out there. If you want one, check it out: eWebResults/swag.
Chris: Hey, I just got to say: may the rank be with you.
Matt: Yeah, that’s my favorite.
Chris: Yeah, mine too.
Matt: That’s totally my favorite.
Chris: That was a collaboration by a couple of people here.
Chris: On the team. Alright, well we’re going to jump into an article. This is a pretty good size article by Brian Dean with Backlinko.
Matt: Maybe you’ve heard of him.
Matt: He’s been out there a little bit.
Chris: Yeah, he’s got a little voice in the community there. And actually, if you’re in a position to, why don’t you go ahead and tweet right now, tweet #SEOPodcast. This is Number 440. Tag us in it: @BestSEOPodcast, @eWebResults, @MattBertramLive, @–
Chris & Matt: @ChrisBurresEweb
Matt: And then just be like, “Brian, what’s up?”
Chris: @Backlinko and let Brian know that you’re watching out podcast discussing his article, “9 SEO Hacks No One Talks About.”
Matt: Yes, that would be awesome. You could do it.
Chris: I saw this, I thought it was pretty good.
Matt: We’re giving you permission to do that.
Chris: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let him know.
Matt: Let know.
Chris: Alright, and we’re just going to jump right in. He told a story about how he got into internet marketing. Kind of similar to yours, right?
Chris: Like, “I had a website. I paid some guy to do SEO on my site. #PalmToFace it didn’t work out.”
Chris: And so then he figured out how to do it himself and started backlinko, and then boom: off and running. His first out of 9 SEO hacks: “Use these words in your title tag to get more traffic.” So he mentions last year SEO Pro Ross Hodgins decided to run an interesting experiment. He analyzed 7999 pages – he came 1 short of 8000, I like that number – and figured out how they ranked, and the most commonly used words in those high ranking, and he listed those words. And those words were, in order of most important–
Matt: I got this part.
Chris: Matt, what were those words in order of most importance?
Chris: That was the first word.
Matt: Yeah, and I actually would throw in like Cheap.
Chris: Cheap. Okay, yeah.
Matt: But I mean a lot of people don’t want to optimize for that, but I’ve actually seen some really good success when people are looking for stuff, that’s something they type in even though they might not want that product. But then you know, clients have like a wishy-washy of like how do I feel about that?
Matt: But really if you look at the search volume, it’s something to look out for in addition to these words.
Chris: And the other thing is you can– I mean I’m actually comfortable now looking for cheap things because you can read the reviews and know. Because there are inexpensive out there there some people might– like at that price point it must be cheap–
Matt: That are awesome.
Chris: Yeah! You can read the reviews and you can actually know that they’re not cheap, right?
Chris: So basically you’re–
Matt: High quality.
Chris: What’s going on here is Google upranks websites that get high organic searches. So the reason that those words were in the titles of the most popular pages in terms of search results is because as people read those words, they click them and Google goes, “Oh people want to see more of this.” And so they end up increasing the rank.
Matt: Yes! That’s happening a lot.
Chris: Brian Dean added a couple other words: Today, Right Now, Fast, Works Quickly, Easy, Simple, Quick, Step by Step, and New.
Matt: I had that part.
Chris: Oh. Brian Dean. My bad.
Chris: We did no communicate prior to this podcast again. Number #2, this is SEO hack, “Find long-tail keywords with searches related to.”
Matt: Paleo Diet.
Chris: Yeah, well he gave an example, the example was–
Matt: Paleo Diet.
Chris: And so you type it into the search result and then at the bottom of that first page, you see examples. And I don’t know, three examples might be…
Matt: No Chris, why don’t you just go?
Chris: Paleo Diet rules, Paleo Diet Weight Loss, and Paleo Diet Wiki.
Chris: Those are just some examples that he gave. So basically in order to find your target keywords, go to the bottom, look for searches related to whatever phrase you just searched for.
Matt: And you’re probably already doing that and he’s going to get better with the tips.
Chris: Yup. I heard you saying it wasn’t that valuable. Wait! SEO hack Number #3, “Use these little known sources of awesome keyword ideas. Google suggests to find– you’ve probably already used Google Suggest.” Now Google Suggest is when you’re in Google and actually typing it and it’s giving you suggestions on the searches that you might want to actually do.
But there’s a problem with that, right? And the problem is everybody does that, so you’re just going after the same long-tail keywords that everybody else is going after.
Matt: I would not say every SEO company does that. There’s a lot of people that go really, really quick and just go after target keywords. What we’ve found for some clients is: they came to us with words that they thought were the most–
Chris: Were valuable.
Matt: Were valuable to us. And this has happened actually twice to me in the last month, clients have said, “Hey, these are the words we need optimized for.”
Chris: You mean like– yeah, go ahead.
Matt: Well, yeah. And they were like, “No.”
Chris: No? Like, “No, you don’t.”
Matt: Well, so one was a DWI Lawyer.
Matt: Okay? And then one was a car dealership.
Matt: And so they had come to me and said, “Hey, these are the words that I want to go after.” And I was like, “Actually, this word has significantly more search volume, would this be a better word?” And they’re like, “Wow! I didn’t know that.” And they thought it was really valuable. And so a lot of times this gives you a–
Chris: Did that happen in a free 15-minute–
Matt: Yeah, that was in a free 15-minute consultation.
Chris: That’s a lot of value in a phone call. By the way if you want one of those, just go to eWebResults.com and click the free website analysis. That’s a little plug right there.
Matt: Shameless plug.
Matt: Yeah, but–
Chris: Sorry, I interrupted.
Matt: But essentially it’s really important to look at that. So this is a starting point on where to start from to give you idea for keywords, but you really need to do the continued research to flush it out, to figure out what makes the most sense.
Chris: And he says, “Okay great, everybody uses the Google Suggest,” right? He says, “Why don’t you try the Youtube Suggest or the [00:10:42] [Indiscernible] Suggest or Wikipedia or Bing Suggest?
Matt: No, I’ve been looking on trying to optimize for Bing more.
Matt: Like because it definitely is different than Google, you know?
Chris: Yeah, it makes it different. So use some of the other keyword suggest tools that are out there.
Chris: Alright Number #4 out of 9 SEO hacks that nobody talks about, “Reduce your bounce rate, get higher rankings.” Right? So this group analyzed 1 million Google search results, and what they learned was that those with the low bounce rates tended to outrank pages with high bounce rates.
Matt: Yeah, it makes sense, right?
Chris: So Google– we all know that Google’s keeping track of this kind of bounce rate.
Matt: Time on Page, like how far you scroll down. I mean back in the old SEO days, Chris, before I was the prestigious eWebResults.
Matt: You know, if you put a very attractive person on the page, like right below the fold, like above it, you would get people to scroll down to look at the whole page. So there was all kinds of little techniques, tricks.
Chris: Well, it’s still a good technique. Like even just half of a photo.
Chris: Right? Is a good thing to have. Just kind of peaking out over that fold so that you can get people to continue–
Matt: No, no, absolutely. I think that there’s a lot of strategies that you just have to apply in a different way but still work today because people are people.
Chris: Yup. So one of the things they point out is, “It’s not clear that Google is using bounce rate a direct ranking signal, but it could be just that those with a low bounce rate might straight up have better content and that’s why Google ranks them so highly.”
Matt: I would have to agree with that.
Chris: I think it’s a little bit of both and I think that Google is trying– we talk about– there’s some results– the light just died.
Chris: Are we good? We’re still good?
Matt: The sound guys, it’s okay guys. The sound’s good but video’s– sorry Youtubers.
Chris: Well, they can probably still see us, they just–
Matt: No, no they can’t.
Chris: Our faces are really–?
Matt: No, they really can’t see us.
Chris: Well, when you hide. No, they can’t see you anymore. Alright, so yeah. We understand that Google can track from the search result page that you’ve clicked through to a link, and if they end up coming back, it knows it, or knows how fast that happens. And so yeah, that’s definitely a ranking factor to consider. So make your website so that people don’t click to your website and then immediately disappear.
Chris: One of the ways to do that, and we talk about his regularly is: continuity. So when they search there needs to be that search phrase in your meta description, and then when they land on that page it needs to be readily available. Got that.
Matt: Nice pro tip! Nice pro tip, I like that! Aw man!
Chris: Alright, SEO hack Number #5, “Use Google Ads to optimize for click through rates.” Right? So this is just an interesting point. He says, “With Google Ads–” and this is kind of more in you territory, the PPC. You can increase your relevancy and get more click throughs, and you actually reduce the cost, right?
Chris: And then you get better placement in the Google Ads.
Matt: So Quality Score.
Chris: So you got Quality Score and you got Click Through Score.
Chris: And so those that are showing at the top, sometimes they may be paying more. In reality it’s probably there because it ranks really well, it gets a good click through rate.
Matt: They’re not always paying more. Actually there’s a lot of different determinations when you would outrank because you were– you can’t just pay your way to the top, that’s what Google doesn’t want. They want a good customer experience.
Matt: But I think where we’re going with this, and I think is so true is: I’d love to have Adwords data because Google stopped showing you the organic data of how people are finding you. Where the conversions are happening to know what words to optimize for. So if you can spend a little money, you can test out things. You can do that with Twitter, throw it out in Twitter, see how many likes you get or whatever, if you’re looking for taglines. But Google Adwords is absolutely one of the best ways to go out there and do like a survey test of what people are thinking, what they’re clicking on. And then seeing the click through rates and the conversions rates to know high value keywords.
Chris: So you’ve just taken his tip which is to just say, “Hey, do a survey of the ads,” and you’ve taken it one level higher and like, “Hey, let’s tweak the ads and those ads that get the best results, make sure that you include those keywords in your meta descriptions so that you get better click through rate.
Matt: I guess that’s why we’re here.
Chris: I like that. I like that. Alright, so next he gives an example in this particular case. Is this–? Yeah, this is still the same one. The example is life insurance, and he noticed in the ads that those ads that showed up tended to have the word Free Quote. He kind of highlighted $500,000. So he made an SEO Title of “Get $500,000 in Life Insurance for Pennies. Free online quote.”
Matt: Whoo! That’s good Ad Copywrite.
Chris: Smart decision. That was Number #5. Now SEO hack Number #6, “Build backlinks from link roundups.” That’s–
Matt: Top SEO Podcast! Whoo whoo!
Chris: A roundup, we understand here in Texas, you know we do roundups all the time. That’s what we do on the way home. Actually that’s just stick to traffic. So link roundups are weekly or monthly blog posts that link to the best content that recently came out. So he gave an example of Upcity: Top 25 inbound articles the week of 1/6/17, right? So that particular week, right?
Matt: Yeah, I think reviews are big in that way too. I know that one of the keywords that we rank consistently top 10 for is Air Stories. So Sammy did a review of Air Story for content writers, and that ranks super well. So going on there and doing reviews or giving testimonials or that sort of thing on other sites?
Matt: That provides traffic back to you as well. So that’s where kind of the forum started off being, and then people kind of went spammy on it. But giving reviews, and good feedback, and referencing back to who you are on your site is definitely a good way to not just get link juice but to also get referral traffic.
Chris: Yup, absolutely. He says, “If you want to figure out where some link roundups are in your industry, just take your keyword,” right?
Chris: “And then add to it Link Roundup or Roundup, or Best of, or This Week.”
Matt: And if you feel like you should be on this list or companies you’re representing be on this list, it is okay in a professional way, email them and convince them why they might want to add your company or yourself.
Chris: You mean a professional way like, “Hi Paul, I just stumbled on your Sunday Roundup this afternoon: good stuff. I’m just reaching out because I recently published a content marketing case study that might be a good fit.” And then link to it. “Either way, keep up the awesome work, Cheers Brian.”
Matt: Brian’s on top of it, it’s all I got to say. I didn’t even get to that part in the article.
Chris: He’s got the copy of it. The best part is, not only do you get the link but the link’s anchor text is usually just the title of your article. So you don’t have to worry about anchor text being a problem for you.
Matt: Or they’ll just give your domain, right? Or the name of your company or whatever. Yeah.
Chris: Right. Alright, next. SEO hack #7, “Resource page link building.” Alright, so I really wrote: “It’s the same.” Because it really is the same as the Roundup except the Resource Page is usually a lot more evergreen. It’s not changing week over week, it’s [00:17:58] [Indiscernible]
Matt: Well you could have a calculator.
Matt: Like a lot of people like the link to calculators, and stuff that takes a little bit more extra work, right? So I think that there’s a lot of opportunity for interactive resources that people want to go to. I definitely see them high in the search rankings over articles typically, because people are interacting with it, they’re taking some kind of action on the page, they’re usually there for a minute, right? It falls into all the requirements that Google’s like, “I like this.”
Chris: And he gave another example of great email copy that you could send.
Chris: “Hey, great stuff. I really like that you bla bla bla–” something unique about the resource page or website. “Actually I recently published a piece on that topic and bla bla bla–”
Chris: So it’s great, this is a great article. Again a punch in the face to Brian Dean he’s at Backlinko, “9 SEO Hacks No One Talks About.” Let’s jump into #8.
Chris: “Publish in depth content.” So he gave an example of–
Matt: He’s the guy, okay? He is the guy that started off with kind of the skyscraping technique of just how high can you get it?
Chris: How much content can you get on one page. A friend of us send him a note, “Hey, you should link to it. I’ve already got some great placement.” And he published an incredible indepth piece of content. That content was, “121 Employee Wellness Program Ideas that you Team will Love.”
Matt: I like it.
Chris: Yeah, really good. So what does it really mean in practical terms? It means articles like, “5 tips for X,” and “4 Ways to Y,” don’t work anymore. For example last year he wanted to write a post about SEO tools. His original idea was about his 12 favorite tools. He scratched that idea and he said, “I decided to write a review of every single SEO Tool on the internet.” It took over 70 hours but it’s ranked #5 for his target phrase.
Matt: Yeah, so I mean that’s what people are doing. They’re 1-uping, they’re going the 101, now it’s the 178 and all this kind of stuff. But you know why that works? Okay, you know why people– and I talk about this in my book.
Chris: Right, right.
Matt: Why this works is it creates a shot of Dopamine into your head that you found a solution.
Matt: So humans kind of feed off this of getting the answer to something. So they feel like when they get a list they go, “This is valuable,” and boom, the dopamine hits and that’s why they’re so–
Chris: I’ve got everything I need to have in order to have success in this.
Matt: Exactly. If you have every single SEO tool on the internet, you’ve got everything you need.
Matt: Like it’s unabridged.
Chris: Very cool, punch in the face to you Brian. Again next! Number #9, “Pay attention to SERP features.” I don’t know if you had thought about this, I thought this was really interesting. He points out, right? We’ve all seen these SERP features, right? We’ve seen– what have we seen? The Knowledge Graph, we’ve seen more shopping.
Matt: Houston PPC Knowledge Graph.
Chris: Oh we are in the Knowledge Graph. We’ve actually seen it because–
Matt: We’ve gotten clients in the Knowledge Graph, we’ve been in the Knowledge Graph, like it’s something we’ve heard of.
Chris: Yeah, so you’ve got that, you’ve got the video list, you’ve got all the shopping, and he makes the point that if you choose a keyword, an organic keyword that has a lot of these search features, then you’re not going to get as much click through volume. “Because of the new SERP features according to Ahrefs only 35% of people searching for that term click on an organic result.” So if you’ve got all of this stuff above it, right? You’re not getting to the organic place. So make sure you spot check for your keyword because frankly if it’s the most popular keyword in a pretty competitive topic, then it’s going to have all sorts of Google features– search features.
Matt: Well, like think about too, how many times you’re showing up on the page. Are you showing up in the ads? Are you showing up in the maps? Are you showing up in organic? You can actually show up multiple times in organic if you’re page is fully optimized. I think that speaks to what you and I have been kind of discussing on mobile with ads. Is the clickthrough rate higher on ads on mobile?
Matt: Is that overtaking organic because organic’s pushed to the second page. Eventually Google will probably do that, but I don’t think they can because people just click to the second page. That’s why they’re probably just trying to get ads mixed in there. It’s like every other one or something at some point. But there’s a lot of other features that are really helpful for people that Google is capturing that business and you need to look out for that and make sure as these new tools come out, you optimize for those things and get yourself as much online real estate as you can.
Chris: Yup. Summary: Target keywords that don’t have a lot of SERP features. And then finally he gave us a bonus. His bonus is, “Tap into multimedia.” It says, “On average total views increase by 94% if a published article contained a relevant photograph or infographic when compared to articles without an image in the same category.”
Matt: That’s like standard practice now.
Matt: One of the pieces dated that I think’s out there, and why we are here at eWebResults moving in that direction. We partner with a number of companies that do great videography, we’ve seen the results, and about 80% of all search volume online in 2020 is going to be videos. So 80% is a study that I read. It’s definitely trending in that way, you’re seeing way more engagement and this is including social media and everything else. Like videos, videos, videos.
Matt: That’s my tip.
Chris: That is the great article for Mr. Brian Dean.
Chris: “9 SEO Hacks No One Talks About.” Well, at least half of that statement is true. The other half, no one talking about them: we’re talking about them.
Chris: So now everyone’s talking about it.
Matt: We’re here to show you those unknown secrets.
Chris: Of internet marketing.
Chris: Alright, so if you liked this podcast please tell three people about this podcast. You can do that.
Matt: Just share it.
Chris: Because you can share it.
Matt: Yeah, just share it.
Chris: You can do that.
Matt: Yeah, just share it.
Chris: When should they do that?
Chris: Now is a good time.
Matt: Now’s good. If you’re working out, you know? Just kind of share it. Like my interview that’s out there has got a bunch of views. If you want to share that while you’re just looking at it. Appreciate it!
Chris: Pretty cool.
Chris: If you’re interested in growing your business with the largest, simplest marketing tool on the planet.
Matt: The internet!
Chris: Go ahead and call eWebResults for increased revenue in your business 713-592-6724. If you’ve got a referral for us, it’s sometimes important for us to kind of remind you: yes, we do websites! Yes, we do landing pages! Yes, we do PPC! Yes, we do SEO!
Matt: Chris, what was the name of the company before it was eWebResults?
Chris: It was eWebStyle.
Matt: And what did eWebStyle do since 1999?
Chris: Make websites.
Matt: Oh! That’s good!
Chris: Yeah, make amazing websites.
Matt: I feel like that’s–
Chris: And then we started making amazing websites that took the traffic that we got and put them on the first page of Google, and actually made sure it converted into business.
Matt: And really what we’re seeing out there guys, is there’s people out there that can promise you the first page of Google. We can definitely deliver and there’s other people that can as well, but now it’s getting a little more competitive and you got to decide, now that you’re on the first page of Google, why is the visitor going to select you? Or customer or prospect going to select you versus someone else? And that’s why you got to position yourself as an authority, that’s why you need results, and that’s why you should call eWebResults.
Chris: And you should also read Matt’s book Build Your Brand Mania. Let’s see–
Matt: Chris wrote the foreword.
Chris: I feel like there was one other piece that we needed to put in there. Oh!
Matt: Oh! Oh!
Chris: Where do we want to leave a review?
Matt: Oh, oh. Yelp? Let’s get some more Yelp reviews.
Chris: So if you got eWebResults.com/Yelp
Chris: You will get to our Yelp page. Please leave us a…
Chris & Matt: 5 star!
Chris: Review there.
Matt: Or please check out my book on Amazon and leave me a review on there. I would really appreciate trying to grow my reviews there. So if you’ve read it or you haven’t read it, I would ask that you read it and then leave a review. We’re going to run another free book day next month, but check it out! Yup.
Chris: Very cool. Please remember that we were filmed live at 5999 West 34th Street, Suite 106, Houston, Texas 77092. If you would like a transcript, video, or audio of this podcast you can get it on our website–
Matt: Or t-shirt.
Chris: eWebResults.com, t-shrit’s at eWebResults.com/Swag
Chris: We are the most popular internet podcast on iTunes, that is because of all of you all. So thank you so much for tuning in, thank you for interacting with us, thank you for like liking or shikoing us.
Chris: Every time you shiko us we hear this sound in the back our head, we hear, “Shikow!”
Chris: Because that’s the sound it makes! Until the next podcast, my name is Chris Burres.
Matt: My name is Matt Bertram.
Chris & Matt: Bye bye for now.