Sometimes you conduct the exact same research and use the exact same methods that have always worked for you, but they aren’t working right now.
What do you do when this happens?
Join Matt and Chris for another thrilling episode of the Best SEO Podcast, featuring “7 ways to shake up your link building efforts” by Julie Joyce.
Chris: Hi and welcome to the SEO Podcast: Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Chris Burres, owner of eWebResults.
Matt: My name is Matt Bertram.
Chris: Also owner of eWebResults.
Matt: That works.
Chris: Welcome back to another fun-filled edition of our podcast, this is Podcast #427.
Chris: At least that’s what it says behind us, and we confirmed before. Yeah. Good we’ve got our photographer here. As always we have a tip from our previous podcast and that tip is:
Matt: For local marketing use useful resources, how-to’s and great videos.
Chris: So those are great pieces of content to have when you’re doing local marketing. So put those together, and I know some times it can be a little hard to figure out what content to put together, that’s the content you should put together. Subscribe. Follow.
Chris & Matt: Boom!
Matt: So we have like actually 101 tips coming out. I know we did the 17 best tips.
Chris: Right, right.
Matt: Working with Adam to put together the 101 best tips.
Chris: 101 best–
Matt: I mean we could really do like quite a few.
Chris: 427, yeah.
Matt: But we’re going to go with the hundred right now.
Chris: We’re going to trim it down from 427 tips to 101 tips.
Matt: Because those are the best 101.
Chris: Yeah, yeah.
Matt: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Chris: Only the best will get through. We are broadcasting live here from Houston, Texas and Matt and I, we are your–
Chris & Matt: Results Rebels!
Chris: Thank you for tuning in. Hey I got this review. It’s actually a long review so I’m going to take off the glasses so I can actually read it.
Chris: This is from Leonard Treman.
Matt: I know him.
Chris: And it of course–
Chris & Matt: 5 stars!
Chris: It says, “I still listen to your podcast. I’ve been listening to it for 5 years, a punch in the face to you guys. Have you guys played with the lighthouse audit in the chrome browser yet? It’s beautiful.” Is what he says. “PS: what happened to Charles? I stopped listening to you guys for a year and a half while I was working for Google and when I ended up taking a job that paid a bit more,” wait, somebody pays more than Google? I didn’t know that. “I came back and Charles was gone. I mean the new guy is cool and super knowledgeable, but it’s like the Results Rebels feel so different.” We do, we do.
Matt: We do.
Matt: Yeah, definitely.
Matt: Punch in the face to him also, thank you for– he sent us like us like 3 or 4 referrals.
Chris: Oh yeah, yeah.
Matt: Also he’s really big in the World of Warcraft. So my new book’s coming out, we’ve been talking about game plan and like how to really kill it on Amazon.
Chris: Okay, cool.
Matt: So yeah, he’s a good guy.
Chris: Very cool.
Chris: Punch in the face to you Leonard. Yeah, I had a conversation with him just before I went to Russia. That’s right I got back from Russia. I went to a couple of World Cup Soccer games in Russia, that was amazing.
Matt: Tell us about it.
Chris: Absolutely amazing. So I went and saw the Argentinian vs Nigeria game, and that was an amazing game. For me one of the most amazing things: I played soccer when I was younger for a very long time at a reasonably high level–
Matt: Me too.
Chris: And you like busted your knees and everything. I don’t even have like–
Matt: I tore my ACL, yeah.
Chris: I don’t have like the real scars. I did break my tibia and fibula one time when somebody kicked me.
Matt: Oh okay.
Chris: But yeah, I feel ACL is almost the badge of soccer destruction.
Matt: I don’t man, I will tell you that breaking bones– which I’ve broken bones.
Chris: Right, right,
Matt: Ligaments are worse.
Chris: Oh yeah?
Matt: By far worse.
Chris: Probably longer repair time. So here we are at the Argentinian – Nigeria game and just all of the Argentinians were singing, they keep singing the same song, and they’re all singing together. And it was really just a powerful event. So I couldn’t recommend more going to the World Cup. And it’s going to be here in 26 right? 2026?
Matt: Yes, it is.
Chris: Well here, Canada and Mexico. So even a game here in Houston. So maybe some of our podcast listeners will come by for one of the games and stick their head in.
Matt: I’m still trying to figure out how to get us on TripAdvisor for that link.
Matt: So you come visit us, we’re a landmark.
Chris: Yeah, the podcast is landmark. So that was a great time, spoke with Leonard before that and then you’ve been talking with Leonard after that. So again, punch in the face to you Leonard for that awesome review.
“5 Online Marketing Mistakes That Can Tank Your Business & How to Avoid Them,” you certainly want that PDF, go ahead and get it. Obviously 101 are coming down soon. We may take that down, so get it before it’s gone.
Matt: Even the book. We can probably throw the book out there at some point, yeah.
Chris: The book is going to be out there soon.
Matt: It’s coming soon. Soon, soon, soon. Next week soon.
Chris: Just around the corner.
Matt: Yeah, like next week. New website too, round the corner: next week.
Chris: All sorts of things are–
Matt: I mean everything.
Chris: It’s moving and grooving. You can get those “5 Online Marketing Mistakes That Can Tank Your Business & How to Avoid Them,” at eWebResults.com/
Matt: Mistakes– tips!
Chris & Matt: SEOTip!
Matt: Oh yeah, yeah. It’s trick questions.
Chris: See? He’s already moved on. He’s like, “I know the link for my book, I don’t know this link from yesterday.” Alright so we’ve got a great article that we are talking today.
Matt: That’s not it.
Chris: I grabbed the wrong one.
Matt: It’s this one. Here, go for it.
Chris: It’s this one.
Matt: Go for it, since I’ve highlighted mine.
Chris: [00:05:24] [Indiscernible] This is article is, “7 Ways to Shake Up Your Link Building Efforts.” This article is by– I’ve got it written on my thing. I think it’s Julie Joyce, and you can– well by the way if you’re in a position to tweet now, what we’d like you to do: #SEOPodcast – this is Podcast #427 – @BestSEOPodcast, @eWebResults, @MattBertramLive.
Chris & Matt: @ChrisBurresEweb
Chris: And @– I think it’s Janice, is it Janice? Joyce? I think it’s Janice Joyce.
Matt: I like the name.
Chris: Maybe it’s here on the last page. And it is not. We’ll make sure to get that and get it on our Facebook page so that you guys can connect with us. “7 Ways to Shake up Your Link Building Efforts.” You know, sometimes link building you can get in the doldrums and that link building doesn’t seem to be working, and maybe it’s working. And yeah, here’s 7 things that you can do to shake it up. We’re going to need that other article– the other copy so we both have one.
Matt: No, no, no.
Chris: Maybe–? No, we’ll go on the one.
Matt: I’m good. I’m going to ad lib.
Chris: He doesn’t need no stinking article. Alright, so let’s see. So we’ve got the review, we definitely got– so we run a contest each and every week and that contest is: if we get 10 shikos–
Matt: A share, a like or a follow.
Chris: If we get 10 shikos and we get a review, then we actually skip the section that we would normally do right now. We are going to skip that section.
Matt: We’re like head and shoulders above hitting these contest.
Matt: We might need to make like a little bit more difficult contest, I feel like–
Chris: A little challenger.
Chris: Yeah, we got like 4 new ones on Twitter, 39 new ones on Instagram, 11 new on Pinterest. So yeah. Yeah, we’re doing pretty good. So we’re going to save it until the end to tell you how to shiko us. So that’s kind of cool. If you are looking for a free website analysis, you can get one. And you can get that by going to eWebResults.com– even on the new site it might not surprise you, there is a free website analysis.
Matt: Is there a slash? Can you get there by a slash? Like /FreeWebsiteAnalysis?
Chris: Yeah– I mean sure.
Matt: I feel like it should be both, right?
Chris: It would be easy, yeah eWebResults.com/FreeWebsiteAnalysis.
Matt: I like doing that to try to like get on back ends of sites that aren’t in Google, like playing with it.
Chris: Like make it have this available.
Matt: Yeah, what’s the link?
Chris: Alright, so that is the potatoes of the podcast. We are now going to get into the meat, and again the meat is, “7 Ways to Shake up Your Link Building Efforts.”
Matt: Check it out.
Chris: Alright, so “Sometimes your link building efforts produce absolutely nothing of value,” right?
Chris: You can get a little bit frustrated. “Sometimes you conduct the exact same research,” you’re using the same methods, but it’s not working. “What do you do when this happens?” She’s talking about most experienced and successful link builders often run into– or occasionally run into stumbling blocks, and when that happens–
Matt: It’s like writer’s block.
Chris: It’s link builder’s block.
Matt: Link builder’s block, yeah.
Chris: Say that 10 times real fast. And she will always advise them– #1, so this is 7 ways, our 1st way is, “Search Differently,” alright? So an important part of link building is kind of doing searches, doing some competitive searches.
Chris: So search differently. She has some good ideas. Start from page 10 or even page 20, don’t start on that page 1 if you’re looking for kind of opportunities that are not really working or you’re not coming across.
Grab a few of your competitors’ URLs, run them through a backlink checker and then go to the best backlinks of theirs, right? So you got that? Competitors’ URL, backlink checker, and then go to those and do another backlink check on those–
Matt: Of the links that the competitor’s got, to go like the 7 Degrees of Kevin Bacon?
Chris: All 7 of them– well she’s just talking about 3, but yeah yeah.
Matt: The 3 Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Chris: She’s on her way to 7.
Chris: “Use search engines other than Google.” You might have heard of–
Chris: Yeah, yeah. There is one–
Matt: Really? There’s other–? Google’s not the internet?
Chris: It is not the entire internet.
Matt: Oh okay, alright.
Chris: There’s DuckDuckGo, there’s Bing, and she’s got Million Short. I’ve actually never–
Matt: I’ve never searched on that, no. I was like Ask Jeeves.
Chris: Yeah. Like use Quora. You actually spend some time on Quora, right?
Chris: Like that’s a good place?
Matt: Definitely great questions on there. Anywhere where there’s traffic, you can use as kind of a search option.
Chris: Yup. She gets into that. I think some of the other ones that might be a little more obvious. “Do some totally random crazy searches, right?” One of the things that they’ve done is like use your keyword and then add a cuss word and see what comes up.
Matt: You know, I’ve actually never done that. I’ve added like the words like Cheap or Luxury.
Chris: Right, right, right.
Matt: Or like whatever, stuff like that, but I haven’t added cuss words yet.
Matt: You know Siri will just talk back to me like if you–
Chris: I feel like I’m the only person in the planet she cusses at. “Experiment with advanced search operators.” So there’s a search– did you know that there’s a search operator in Google called the AROUND operator?
Matt: I did not. I’m learning new stuff.
Chris: So, now did you do some background research and figure out what AROUND means? You did not.
Matt: Look at all the highlights, there is 0.
Chris: So I did. So this was interesting, as an example budgeting software was the core phrase and using this operator it’s: budgeting, and then AROUND with in parenthesis the number 2, and then software, right? So she stuck AROUND with parenthesis 2 in between [budgeting AROUND(2) software]. And what it means is– so for instance she gave the example: let’s say you’re doing research on Bert and Ernie, right?
Matt: Oh okay.
Chris: Right? You’re doing research on Bert and Ernie, and there’s an article about Bert and Bert has an Uncle Ernie, right? So it’s not Bert and Ernie together, but it’s Bert and then there’s Ernie. And that’s not really the kind of information that you’re looking for, right?
Matt: You’re losing me in Sesame Street.
Chris: So again, you’re searching for Bert.
Chris: Bert Ernie, right? Bert space Ernie.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Chris: The problem is that there’s a guy name Bert and he has a cousin or uncle named Ernie and so in that page is both Bert and Ernie.
Matt: Yeah of course, yeah.
Chris: But they’re not together. If you’re looking for Bert and Ernie, the Sesame Street, it’s always going to be Bert and Ernie.
Chris: So the AROUND operator says, “Hey Bert–” AROUND(1) means Bert and Ernie. Those phrases need to be very close to each other.
Chris: (2) lets them be a little bit farther apart and (3) a lot farther apart. So it just keeps those phrases together.
Chris: Kind of cool.
Matt: I’m going to have to try that out.
Chris: No, you won’t.
Matt: Boolean ninja! Boolean ninja coming.
Chris: Alright so that was Number #1 of “7 Ways to Shake Up Your Link Building Efforts,” and a little discourse on Bert and Ernie. Next is Number #2, “Reach Out in a New Way.” Alright, so a lot of link building is the reaching out, so you’ve got to identify the targets where you’d like to have links, and then reach out to them. And so she gave a bunch of ways: “Calling a webmaster,” like just pick up the phone and call.
Matt: What? Can you still do that?
Chris: Still today?
Matt: Yes, it works.
Chris: There’s another search engine and the phone actually works. “Finding the webmaster on Twitter,” right? So you can actually engage with him in private messages on Twitter.
Matt: Run a Facebook ad to just the account managers.
Chris: “Find them on social sites, like LinkedIn and Facebook.” How about, “Meet up in person?”
Matt: Time efficient.
Chris: That’s interesting.
Matt: Very time efficient.
Chris: I feel like we made a phone call earlier today and both people were in the same place, and they both–
Matt: We did, we called–
Chris: And they ended up on the same phone.
Matt: It was awesome.
Chris: And we knew for sure when one of them disappeared and the other one was like, “Yeah, the other one had to take a phone call.” Oh, you must have been like right next to each other.
Matt: Well you know, the interesting thing about this though, is if like you meet up with somebody, that link– like really think about like how it ranks with Google, because one link’s worth like a thousand other links.
Matt: So if you really do like the 80-20 rule?
Matt: One link is worth that.
Chris: Yeah, absolutely.
Matt: I mean we’ve looked at a lot of different links and like are they worth it? Not worth it? This, that and the other thing, and it really makes a difference how much domain authority, how much page authority everything has. So one link could be worth a meeting, for sure.
Chris: Absolutely, yeah. Plus it’s just–
Matt: I’m just making light of it.
Chris: Good to get out there and meet with people, right? Punch in the face to my wife who’s tuning in. I am on my way home now, I’m already in the car. It’s just a delay I assure you.
Number #3 on “7 Ways to Shake Up Your Link Building Efforts,” “Realize that less is sometimes more.” We’re all very busy people so if you’re reaching out to them and you’ve go this long dissertation on my what? My website is this good, and we write this great content, blah blah blah. No, keep it short.
Matt: So in a meeting today.
Matt: Was talking about ad copy, talking about branding, talking about how to get the message across quickly to cold traffic. And I was talking about the attention span of the average American.
Chris: Okay, yeah.
Matt: Is 8 seconds.
Chris: It’s 8 seconds?
Matt: 8 seconds.
Matt: And a Goldfish is 9.
Chris: So, wait. Literally a Goldfish has more attention span than the average– and it’s American? They were very specific about American?
Matt: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Chris: Did they show any other nationalities? Like I feel like maybe there’s–?
Matt: Well so the people I was meeting with was like, “I need to see that study.”
Chris: So you actually pulled up that study?
Matt: So I went to Google, you know?
Matt: Typed it in, and you know who did the study? Microsoft.
Chris: Microsoft did.
Matt: So it’s got to be true.
Chris: That means it’s fact.
Matt: Yeah, mm-hm.
Chris: I think so.
Matt: It was on the internet and Microsoft–
Chris: Alright, so just realize that sometimes less is more. Keep your outreach to trim it down. There’s a famous writer who once said about his letter, “Please forgive the length of this letter. I did not have time otherwise it would’ve been shorter.”
Matt: Yeah, I love that.
Chris: Spend a little bit more time and make that letter a little bit more short. Number #4, “7 Ways to Shake Up Your Link Building Efforts,” is “Brainstorm.” I know that you would’ve never thought of this one. She points out, “If you’re lucky enough to work with other link builders,” then you always have people to brainstorm with, but sometimes maybe you don’t even need to brainstorm with other link builders. So maybe as an example, if you’re trying to build links for a video game site and you don’t play video you could ask somebody who does play video games.
Matt: There you go, interview them.
Chris: And they might get some amazing ideas.
Matt: Yeah, I like that.
Chris: Number #5, “Think in a Different Place.” Right, so this is actually kind of a nice article just about general creativity. Maybe you just need to go to Starbucks, right?
Matt: Yeah, see you next Friday Chris.
Chris: I will be link building at the various Starbucks around town.
Matt: If you don’t see me there, I’ve probably moved on to the next one.
Chris: I can’t tell you which one. Yeah, so she gives a meeting– you know, have in a local coffee shop or maybe even just work from home. She’s got one link builder who will actually you know, a couple days a week work from home the first part of the morning. And just that different perspective, the quietness, you know good things matter.
Matt: Yeah, you get in different kind of modes, right? You know like based on the environment. I agree with that for sure.
Chris: Alright Number #6. This is “7 Ways to Shake Up Your Link Building Efforts.” “Get a Second Opinion.” Yeah, that’s always a good thing to do, right? “Have someone read over your link request–” and this is more about the outreach, right? “And ask them how you could make it better.” Someone else in a different industry is going to have a different opinion.
Sometimes you may think the purpose of your email is very clear, right? How many times have we done this? Like Matt and I will bat emails to clients or prospects back and forth and it lands in his lap, and he’s like, “Well what about this?” And we’re like, “Oh, yeah. That really– yeah, I missed that one.”
Matt: Well you just take your time. I like the rule: three eyes before it flies.
Matt: At least two.
Matt: Right so go for three, but a lot of times if you’re sending off emails quickly– even building templates, people were sometimes moving too quickly and you have bad grammar, and that’s a horrible first impression.
Chris: Yeah, absolutely. And this an important aspect of the company, right? Two eyes, we shoot for three, but it always requires– so all client work: two eyes before it flies. So two eyes at the company I visited for each of our clients. Every piece of content that’s gone out.
Chris: So that’s really– every now and then you’re going to get something that’s steps through both, but for the most– Sammie Davis! Punch in the face to you for tuning in! We were just talking about how you actually are one of the two eyes before it flies when it goes out the door. So it’s one of the ways to keep highly accurate content and relevant for the client content going out.
That was, “Get a Second Opinion,” and finally this is, “7 Ways to Shake Up Your Link Building Effort.” “Persist in Your Efforts,” don’t quit. “Sometimes there are various reasons why you’re having a harder time,” perhaps your target country is on vacation, like the whole country.
Matt: Like when?
Chris: I don’t know, Christmas it might happen.
Matt: The 4th of July?
Chris: The 4th. Yeah, it could happen. “Because you are experiencing a slowdown you might be tempted to stop completely or totally rethink what you’re doing.” Don’t do that, be persistent.
“We’ve found that following up multiple times tends to net us more links than if we’d only sent out one email.”
Chris: You got some great stats, I mean this is– you are actually closing a deal when you get a link, right? I mean that’s what you’re doing, you’re closing a deal like a sales call.
Chris: You’ve got some stats about sales and how many touch points you need.
Matt: We’ll have to put out that infographic, but I mean most people stop at 3.
Matt: Very few even get to 3.
Matt: Most of the sales are made at 5, 6, 8+.
Chris: Right 8+ contacts.
Matt: So email drips are important, using something like Rebump to keep sending them emails is really good. But yeah, following up with people, that little nudge. If they missed it or they need to get back to you, they could respond. And really when they just say, “Call me next month, call me next week.” What they’re saying is, “Don’t call me– like I can’t talk right now, just get back in touch with me later.”
Chris: Yeah, yeah.
Matt: And so yeah I’ve had a lot of success. Even today I think I closed two deals by–
Matt: Just sending like a one-liner email.
Chris: Yeah, and so one of the things before you finally give up, right? So you’ve got your 8 touch points because I would recommend somewhere between 8 and 11 touch points. If you’re really about to just totally give it up, there’s some phrases that you can use. We actually saw a public speaker, Chris–
Matt: Chris Voss.
Chris: Chris Voss.
Chris: He wrote the book, “Never Split the Difference.”
Chris: Amazing book, by the way I highly recommend it. Go get “Never Split the Difference.” And he’s got some great last minute phrases, “Hey, this is the last stitch effort.” You have one of those–
Matt: Yeah, I man there’s definitely a couple of them. I got a sales call– so on the front end I got a sales call by somebody that was using one of those, is now not a good time?
Chris: Is now not a good time?
Matt: And then that forces you say, “No.”
Chris: “No, it’s an okay time.”
Matt: Yeah, it’s an okay time. Because everybody thinks you want to get them to say yes. The conversation or the negotiation doesn’t start until they say no.
Chris: Yeah, when somebody– that’s one of the premises of the book.
Matt: And then so on the back end, is this still important to you? Have you given up on this blank? Or whatever it is, stuff like that works really, really well.
Chris: In fact this week you did one of those and got a response in 20 minutes and a closed deal the following day.
Matt: Yeah, and then I got another one today.
Matt: So I mean– and then we closed another deal earlier today. Like all this is if you put in the steps to– if you put in the steps and you’re like earning the sales. So really if you do all the right steps, asking for the sales easy, and you just might need to nudge them with something if they’re ready to close and they just haven’t got around to it. And you’ve got to be really straight forward on what the next steps are, is all I can recommend.
Chris: Yeah, just be very clear about that.
Chris: So persist. “All told, link building really isn’t that tricky. However, link building is very, very tedious and time-consuming work.”
Matt: Yes. Yes.
Chris: Shaking things up may not be necessary just because it’s not working, it may be necessary because it’s very, very tedious work.
Matt: The fortune’s in the follow up, the fortune is in the follow up.
Chris: Even with the link building. Alright, that’s a great article, punch in the face to you. Let’s see if we go down here. So we’re going to tell you how to connect with us.
Matt: How do they–? Ooh.
Chris: So we’ve got a number of ways that you can connect with us. We actually have to kind of cycle through these. I need to know that one, do you know the Pinterest one?
Matt: I’m assuming that’s like–
Chris & Matt: Pinterest.com/
Chris: Although it’s written here Pinterest/Results.
Matt: I feel like just go to Pinterest and type anywhere Results, and then you’ll find us, yeah. And that’s why I kind of feel like people, if they know our name, if we’re like eWebResults, eWebResults, eWebResults. Just got to any platform and type that in.
Chris: Just got like the platform and search for eWebResults. That’s a good idea. YouTube we’ve made it easy, eWebResults.com/
Chris: Alright, Facebook.com/
Chris: And then for Tumblr it’s eWebResults.Tumbler.com
Chris: And then for Flickr, it’s Flickr.com/photos/eWebResults
Matt: Boom! And you heard it from the man, that’s what you need to do. Connect with us on these platforms.
Chris: Please connect with us so we can keep that section at the end. If you liked this podcast, we do ask you to sell– to sell.
Matt: Tweet three friends.
Chris: Three friends, just tweet three friends.
Matt: Tweet them, tweet us.
Chris: Pin them, tell them a story.
Matt: If you like us, tweet us, tell us.
Chris: Forward a photo, Facebook, all that good stuff. If you’re interested in growing your business with the largest, simplest marketing tool on the planet–
Matt: The internet! I want to make sure that I’m book I got that like right. [00:24:00] [Javi?] I need you to check that.
Chris: Call eWebResults for increased revenue in your business, our phone number is 713-592-6724. If you have a referral, that is somebody who’s interested in any aspect of internet marketing: yes, we make websites. Yes, we do pay-per-click. Yes, we do AdWords– paid ads on Facebook. Yes, we do Instagram.
Chris: Yes, we do Search Engine Optimization.
Matt: Oh, that one!
Chris: All of those–
Matt: Y’all do that?
Chris: Landing pages, conversion optimization. If you have somebody who’s interested in one of those services, you send them to us, they pay their bill, we pay you.
Matt: And how we’re doing that, okay? On the new site there’s going to be an option to enter in the lead, so you know you get credit, and then we pay a percentage of whatever that deal closes to you. We’ve done it many times successfully.
Matt: We’re doing it on a deal today. So please, if you don’t have the bandwidth to it, please refer it to us. We also white label.
Chris: Absolutely. We were filmed live here at 5999, West 34th Street, Suite 106, Houston, Texas, 77092. A transcript, video and audio of this podcast are available at our website eWebResults.com. We are the most popular internet marketing podcast on iTunes thanks to you. We really appreciate you, you, and you, and you over in England, and you over in Australia, and down there in New Zealand. All of y’all–
Matt: And all you YouTubers, we like you too.
Chris: All you YouTube. Thank you guys for tuning in, until the next podcast, my name is Chris Burres.
Matt: My name is Matt Bertram.
Chris & Matt: Bye bye for now.