How to Build Personal Brand Online 101 with Roz Miller-Choice Ep. 612

Howdy, welcome back to another fun-filled episode of the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Matt Bertram. If you're hearing a little bit of fuzz in the sound, I apologize. Had to exit Houston due to the hurricane. I'm now in Rio Dos in New Mexico at a coffee shop and a special guest for you today. So apologies on any of the sound issues. I know it's not our regular quality. Really quickly, I am going to be doing a special episode on the Google Data Dump. There's a lot of great things in there. If you haven't dug into it yet on really things that we're confirming that Google has said, yes, we are doing or said we're not doing, I think the validity of the former Google employee that dumped it, it is like true stuff. They may not be using it technically, but they used it in training and they've used it in the past. And I think it gives us some really good insight. So I still am planning on doing that. So just be looking out for that. Today, I do have a special guest for you. Before we get into that, I'm going to read a quick review. David Hunter, one of our longtime clients, it's a law firm. I've been working with EWR, Digital Marketing Agency, for over 10 years. And I can confidently say that they've been instrumental in the success of my solo crime practice to generate business online from Google and other search engines. From the very beginning, they treated me like family. I've always prioritized my needs, going above and beyond to ensure that my business thrives. He went into a lot more detail. It's on our Google review. Feel free to go check that out. I just don't want to get into the weeds. But certainly, what we're going to be talking about today is building a personal brand. This was a law firm that he was a former judge. He stepped out. We built him a website. We did full brand, 360, SEO, paid

media, we've done PR in the local community. He tells us, I'm generating too much business, I'm a single practice, calm down. He's been a longtime client and friend. Went out to his house for the 4th of July. I don't know how many fireworks we shot up, but $100,000 close to it is crazy. He was allowing people to do it. He had politicians there. He had the police there. It was really amazing. He had been inviting me to it for a couple of years. I want to shout out to David because I know he listens to this podcast on 2x speed. Thank you, David, for all that you do. Great testimonial. We've had a lot of clients over the years, 10 years, left, come back. We really do good work. Check out EWR Digital. The more I can't even talk today, apologies, no further ado. I want to bring in Roz Miller-Choice, the expert maker. She's written a number of books. She's been on some TED Talks. She helps coaches and consultants position themselves in their field. As you know, if you've been following me, if you're new to this podcast, I've written about four books to date. The first two books I wrote were on personal branding. It was near and dear to my heart. Roz has not only written two books herself, Know It, Share It, Profit. She has some workshops. She's been on radio. Even PR training as you build your own personal brand, getting on podcasts, getting on news, she has a lot of value to add. She's done stuff with Gary Vanderchuck. She's a great guest. I'm glad that mutual acquaintances connected us. I'm excited to get into this conversation. Welcome, Roz. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate that. I'm so glad that it's always nice to talk to someone who understands this industry. It's nice to have a colleague and hopefully we can have a colleague-to-colleague conversation and help your audience understand personal branding, SEO, whatever it takes to run a business. As you talked about your attorney-client, David, what's nice

about some clients, they also become friends over the years. Isn't that great? No. I think that that's really how you should do business. If you're doing a good business, delivering a good service of value, it's mutually beneficial and you grow together. Our average client is right around, I think, six years. We start working with clients and we continue to grow with them. It just turns into a lot of great things. It builds a great network. I really love what I do and I love getting to know people. I think that authenticity, as you merge that online and offline, starts to become one. Having you on, in the programming for the show, there's a little bit of personal benefit that I get because I am launching a coaching program. I've had people beating down my door enough to say, okay, SEO has changed over the last 36 months. More than it's changed in the last 15 years. Everybody's looking for housework. I've had to step back in, retool a lot of our processes, get back into what's going on with the signals with Google, and really thought leadership and your online brand has merged to the point that Google's just trying to recognize who you are as an individual in the real world and map them. If you're the best surgeon or the best doctor or the best lawyer, it should be represented in the search results. That's what Google wants to see. Even with some of these March updates, they're looking at reviews, they're looking at social media, they're indexing all this stuff. You have an AI that's trying to give you the best results for what you're looking for. There's this huge merger. My first book out there was basically talking about thought leadership, before that word was even coined, of this kind of merger of how your online presence, like the expertise, authority, trust, the Google Eat kind of metric, maps into this. I thought you would be a perfect guest for this conversation because this is where everything's going and one of

the things that you do really well is help people understand their expertise and productize that in a way. If you're starting a small business today, the best way to do that is to build yourself as the personal brand and then they're buying you, essentially, what you're offering, right? That part, yes, absolutely. As we talked about a little bit before the show started, my background is in television. I was a reporter, a producer, an anchor, a PR person for television stations in the New York market. When I was working with PR specifically, it would be my job to help promote television shows. Basically, it is a product or service, right? Usually there was at least one star of the show and that's kind of what you are in your business. You are the star of your business, especially if you're running a small business. Your persona, your personality, your stardom, your thought leadership is really very, very important when you're promoting your business. Many people really struggle with that, struggle with being the face of the business, but if it comes down to you being shy about your expertise and making sales, listen, business is business and you need your business to do business. Therefore, you do have to step up and take that role. Yeah, one of the things you were saying in the pre-interview is kind of getting out of your own way, right? I can tell you that I don't think I'm the only one who doesn't like how they look, doesn't like how they sound. I have a client that I've been telling for literally four plus years that you need to start getting on podcasts. You need to start putting yourself out there on social media, but they are so concerned about their look that they'll only do static photographs with quotes. I think if you look at even like Alex Ramosi and some of the bigger brands, they're spending $80,000 to $90,000 a month on their brand creating so much content, right? If you're going to put out that much

content, it's more about getting out value and not how you do it. Over time, it's kind of starting ugly, a friend of mine that started podcasting. Yes, and being okay about that. That's the thing. You have to be okay about it. Understand that we all start off ugly. It's the expectation and once you get past that, know that it's going to happen. It's fine. It's fine. We judge ourselves harder than anybody else judges us. Joe Rogan, I've watched some of Joe Rogan's old podcasts. He didn't just become an overnight gorilla in the media space. I saw him with Yeti mics in back rooms. He's been doing it a long time and he's certainly gotten better at it. It's a process. Right. The only way you're going to get better at it is if you do it. You've got to do it. You have to do it. True story, when I started out in television, again, I was in the New York City market and I remember standing in front of a high school and I had to do what we call a stand up, which basically is you grab your mic, you're standing in front of the camera and you say a couple of words, a couple of sentences. I got it wrong so many times that some students were coming out of school saying, is this some kind of bloopers and bleep show? That's how bad I was. But you have to do it over and over and over again. And your point about how you look on camera, listen, I still can be that way. You're spending, where am I, I've been in the industry 35 years or so between media and my own company. So it never goes away. No. And you just have to get past it. You really do. And recognize that nobody is judging you as harshly as you are judging yourself. You're much more interested in what you have to say than the way that you look. Get past it and embrace those flaws, whatever those flaws are

that you think that they are. The one thing that I found, and I came from a sales background, a direct sales background, phone sales, pharmaceutical sales, direct sales, and I saw the leverage of digital advertising, SEO, online marketing, podcasting, the one to many kind of concept. But man, I'll tell you that you go from being a salesperson where maybe someone's looking at you to fix a particular problem and you're just a mechanic and they're like, just do that. And then you become to kind of like, let's partner, right? And you hear a lot of that. Let's partner as an agency or let's partner, let's do this together and let's work at it together. And really what I talk about in my book is becoming, and you branded the term the expert maker and I love that. And I said, you have to become the trusted advisor, right? You have to become that expert that people are looking to. And as that process has happened, like, I mean, when I started, I was coat tie, right? And I was out in the Florida heat and I was new and I was really going like mentor me, right? And as time has gone on and as I've evolved and I've learned, people are a lot more interested in what I'm saying. And so you see me now, like if you're watching this again, I got bad camera lighting. I know that probably hurts you, but it's the best I got for the sound. I'm glad you're here considering what's going on in Houston. Yeah. So I have a baseball cap and I have a t-shirt on and I can walk into meetings, right? And you can even see that, right? With the people that have the money or the people that are making the decisions. It's not the person that's buying the car, right? That's walking in in the suit and tie. It's the guy in the sandals and the shorts that just got off the yacht that like now the salespeople in the exotic car industry,

those are the people that are going to buy. You see what I mean? Yeah. And so things kind of change of who you are and to kind of bring this back to the conversation of your personal brand, you need to understand what is the persona that you want to put out? Who is your authentic self and who do you want to connect with? So if I'm wearing a t-shirt and hat, who do I want to connect with? Or if I need to wear a suit and tie, it might be more traditional. You need to know who your target market is and speak their language because I've walked into the office of industrial plants in a suit and tie and it doesn't go well, right? Right, right. But you know what? On the other end of that, the other spectrum of that, it also has to be authentic to you. Yes. Your, especially your appearance, it's got to be authentic to you, which is going to be authentic to your brand. So let's take me for instance. During COVID, I know that lots of people became a lot more relaxed and more sweats because they were going to be home. Not me. Every single day I was dressed, not full on makeup, but it might've been some lipstick. Was it just, you've seen the... Here's the crazy thing. When I, no matter if I was doing interviews, whatever, I had on shoes. Never slippers, never barefooted. You're putting yourself in it, right? You're putting yourself in the persona and there was data surrounding that. Like if you would dress up for work fully, like you would be more productive or you would step into that. Yeah. So it makes me feel a certain way. If I did not have on shoes right now, and I know that there are people who will dress from here up. Listen, I can tell you, I'm dressed from here down too. Shoes on, because I think that's just part of my brand. That's how I show up in the world.

You're going to, it's going to be consistent. For me, even if I am walking to an on job, a job site, for instance, for whatever reason, I needed to be working with someone who was in construction. I'm showing up like this with a really cute hard hat. There you go. There you go. It's cute hard boots, but- Well, if you're walking in all pink, like you're going to, I mean, like there's something about branding, about being memorable. Right? Yes. Yes, absolutely. And that's the whole point of this. Interesting story. Several years ago, I walked into a conference hotel, into the hotel where conference was going to be. And I was going to be one of the speakers. And across the lobby, a woman yelled, hey, it's the expert maker. And she was really enthusiastic. She was like, hey. And I'm going, I had no idea who she was. And I thought to myself, how does she know me? How does she know me? How does she know me? And I remember whispering to the person next to me, how does she know me? And she was like, I don't know. Like, I'll just have to meet her enthusiasm. But then after a while, I realized, Roslyn, you have been working like a dog to build this brand. And finally, it's being recognized. Your brand should arrive before you do. People should know who you are before you actually step in the door. And you finally reach that point. Stop acting so crazy and wave at that woman. You know, Chris, not me personally, but Chris, my former co-host, he still comes back on. He's really built himself a brand in the longevity, life extension space. He's been out to eat a number of times where people have recognized his voice, right? Because most people listen to us. And he had been podcasting for 12 years. And so when he walks into places, people are like, you sound familiar, you know? Yeah, absolutely. You know what? What's weird is I will remember someone's voice before I

remember their face or their name. Something about the voice is really, really, really powerful. And so let's talk a little bit about how you do that. You know, how you walk into a room and people know who you are before you get there. And you started talking about it a little bit in terms of SEO, what Google is doing. Well, you have to give them something to grab onto. So let's just talk about creating content and being consistent with that. One of the things I've noticed is that after people often after three months, four months, five months of consistently what they feel like is putting content out there, they get really discouraged. It's like, well, nobody's responding. Nobody's liking. Nobody's not. If you can get past that and continue, it's that little breaking point that you have where you feel as though nobody's listening. I'm just putting stuff out there and it's not going anywhere. If you can just get over that hump and continue one being not only consistent with putting content out there, but being consistent with your message. Don't talk about everything. You've got to talk about that one thing, that one thing that you're an expert in, that one thing that you want to be seen as the go-to person in. Don't just put content out about barbershops, pillow making. No, no. It is that consistently talking about your expertise, sprinkling in some of your personality. Personality is big. Sprinkling in some of your personality, that's what starts to build your brand. Then the algorithms can pick you up and go, okay, you've got to give them something to work with. This is something interesting for all the SEO listeners out there. People are like, what's going on with personal branding? I want to learn SEO. You have to build a topical authority in a category. If you try to go after too many different verticals at one time, if you don't have enough SEO juice to do that, you'll get diluted across the board. You have to send really solid

signals in one consistent area for a consistent amount of time. Google's algorithm is about two and a half months of creating content consistently in a topical authority to qualify for that topical authority. Then in any subtopic in that area, you're going to start to rank for those terms. Again, you've got to get to the first page, top of the first page to even see any kind of success from it because if you're three pages back, no one's really going to find you. You've got to be the best of the best of the best. It's kind of like the search is kind of like the town square. Here are all the competing conversations that are going on. Unless you're the most authoritative, not the loudest voice, but the most authoritative, people are not going to hear from you. The lion's share of that goes to whoever's done that. You have to build tenure and consistency. I think that understanding the target persona and creating that consistent content is incredibly important and it all builds and builds and builds. You also don't need that many people. A lot of people like Seth Godin talk about the perfect thousand or whatever he calls it of avid followers of that community and going back to what you're saying about people knowing who you are before you get there. If you're in sales, that's that big logo you carry and that's all the branding work that the company did to crack the door for you. If you're a small business, you have to do that yourself. I didn't mean to cut you off. I was disagreeing. I was cosigning you. No, no, let's talk about kind of go back into content creation and tie that in. Maybe tie in kind of PR prep because a lot of people like we talked about previously are just afraid. Okay, they're afraid to put themselves out there. But guess this is what I would just say. And this is what helped me get over it. You're not the perfect fit for everybody. And

if you put your best foot forward and they don't resonate with you and they don't connect with you and they go a different direction, it's probably for the better. Because it might not work out in the long term. You want to attract people to you that you're going to resonate with that. You're going to build that friendship with that. You're going to like that. You're going to be able to deliver on. And guess what? You just need to amplify your message, target your message to get more of those kind of people in your funnel so that every call that you have, like I had two calls this morning and I would tell you it was amazing how dead on they were of like a fit. And they're like, hey, we're going through a number of different agencies. We found you like of the top, whatever. And we opened up a bunch of tabs and we're just talking to people. But they're like, man, you are like a great fit. And I'm like, well, they found us through SEO because we've really pruned and and and targeted that message to who we want to attract so that the close rate is so much higher and they already know who we are. And so it's less selling and it's more like, can we help you? And we're already over that authority like pump or the expertise hump. Now it's just like, are you a fit? Does it make sense like budget wise? And it becomes a lot more fruitful for the conversations to not be all over the place. You know what I mean? Absolutely. And you know what? You just said something that that just I resonate with in terms of your conversion calls. The conversion calls then no longer become conversion calls because they called you because they want to work with you because they've seen enough from you because they go, oh, this person can help me solve my problem because. And why do they think that? Because you've positioned yourself as the expert

because you have given away enough content and you've shown your authority to the point where when you are on a sales call, it isn't a sales call is it's OK, when do we start call? Right. And so very often people are concerned that they're going to give away too much information. I don't think you can give away too much information because every client that's going to come to you is going to come to you with a very specific problem that you need to resolve that specific to them and and or they believe that it is a unique problem to them. So therefore, I think when you're planning your content. There's a strategy behind it and plan for the long term, plan for the long term. Plan a year out, 18 months out, and then adjust if needed, because when I when I think of things like Instagram. There'll be something new and trendy that you weren't that you couldn't plan for. So it's fine. You can still have your plan, your strategy in place. And then, again, sprinkle in some of the trends that are happening. Um, as long as it is on brand. There are some trends that are out there that don't have a darn thing to do with the expert maker and the expert maker does not find herself in the midst of them. Yeah, you can't change those shiny objects. Right. And I mean, if it incorporates into what you're talking about, certainly, certainly do that. And I would tell you that giving away like we give away on our podcast, like everything that I'm doing, I need to share more case studies. I need to put put out more case studies. That's kind of on my agenda to do to show people how we're doing this. But yeah, the people that do it yourself. Are going to go find that information on how to do it yourself. That's not depending on like, say, our service client. So let it go to people that are like, OK, you know what you're

doing. And I have a specific problem. And I want you to speak to how you're going to solve it for me. And then I want you to do it for me. Like that's that's that's who we're after. And I've even seen this heavily with client data that we run paid ads for. We've seen a real shift in paid social that you cannot just run static offers out there. You have to add value first and look for that reciprocity. And so putting putting your your good stuff out there is what makes people in this world of just so many distractions find you and resonate to you. And so, like you said, staying on brand message, giving the value and and getting the stuff that that's bottled up on your computer. Like I have a I have a chiropractor literally that has 40 pieces of content that he's written on his desktop. OK, and he just told me about this and he goes, I want to write a book. And I'm thinking about like AI and like, how can I make this a book? And I go. You've written 40, but yeah, I just don't want to put it out there like that. And I'm like it. And I said, you have the best bedside manner out of anybody I've ever seen. If people knew that people would be beating down your door. And so so that's what my job is, is to say, OK, what do you have? Right. How do we get how do we get people to find it? Right. How do we amplify what you're doing? And I think that some of the things that you're doing on strategically, how to build that expertise and make sure that you're on brand, you're on message and you have something of value, which everybody does like anybody I'm talking to outside the space. Right. It blows my mind how little they know about stuff that's common knowledge. Right. And I think everybody has that in their particular vertical, especially there's a lot of people that

are moving into the consulting space that have worked in-house at a place a long time and they're trying to develop their brand and their consultancy. And I think that that's that and coaches is who you speak to a lot. Right. I mean, maybe you could share some case studies of of kind of transformations you've made. Yeah. You know what? As you said that I'm thinking about a wonderful psycho therapist that I that I work with. And one of the things he was doing was and loved doing was working with couples in marriage therapy sessions. And he had these marriage therapy sessions that would last five hours. Put me and my husband in the same room for five hours and talk to us in therapy. That would end the relationship. However, this was building relationships that were literally on their way to divorce court. And he wanted to do more of those. He only did a couple a year. And one of the things that was driving him crazy was in the rest of his business, he had to deal with insurance companies and filing claims and the paperwork that was involved that was taking him out of therapy and working on admin kind of things. And so we took this thing that he loved, these intense marriage couples therapy sessions, and we built them into an actual product, a service that he could have. We gave them a name. We created a brand around them that included video commercials, graphics, everything that you need to have with a product to advertise. Up went and, and these were going to be out of pocket payers. All right. So no insurance companies involved. So taking something that he loved, that was sort of a little thing that he did every once in a while that no one even knew that he did, except maybe one person who told a couple of people, and that's why he was only doing two of them a year, taking that thing that he loved doing that had some serious impact because

what would happen is he would save marriages or if they weren't able to be saved, at least they could part amicably. The, the impact of divorce and how it, how it impacts not only the couple, but anyone that's associated with a couple is really, can be really very devastating. He was having a major impact with these sessions that he was having. So we took what he loved, we built an entire brand around that service, and then he could be able to market that particular service with its name. I'm not giving its name out right now. But he now does something that he loves and he can have a major impact on something that, that was common sense to him that nobody else knew about, but needed to know about. So let's, let's dig into that a little bit more. What is the kind of content calendar or like, what are the components or the different platforms that you looked at when you were looking to formulate the strategy for him? With that particular one, I have to give it some thought. The biggest thing was, and I will answer your question, but let me, let me say this first. The biggest thing was digging into the service itself, this thing that he was doing. To find the passion, right? What was entailed in this five hours? What were these two people doing for five hours in one room? What were you covering? The same way you and I were working together to come up with a name for this particular podcast, what were we going to be talking about? What would be the name? What would trigger people to listen to this podcast? Because what was going to be the content in it, right? That's what we were looking at. What's this content? How important is it that what you're doing? What kind of impact does it have? What kind of impact does divorce have on a family? And once we broke down what he was doing, he was like, oh, here's the name for

this particular service. Now let's start, people don't know that marriage counseling is one of the things that you do in your therapy sessions. Let's start creating some content around that. What do you know about therapy when it comes to couples? What's the concern? And he came up with, and I just, again, I'm a television reporter, so I'm going to interview people. And he came up with all of these things. You're talking about finding the story. Like that's what I, that's what my head is. What's resonated is you're, you're finding the story for them. And, and I think that's what you do in your workshops is you, you, you, you help people find that passion, that story. And then it becomes really clear where you need to advertise. What, who do you need to speak to? What kind of content you need to create? Because you now know this is who I can help the most. That clarity comes, it's the clarity that has to come first. And you have to ask yourself some questions. What, you know, and when, and when we're talking about building content, it's like, what am I going to talk about? Talk about what you know. So he knew that usually the person that, if it was a situation where there was some infidelity, oddly enough, it is not the person who was cheated on who tends to request marriage counseling. It's the cheater because they want to move past it. So he talked, he, he gave that kind of information. He talked about what general information about couples therapy, why it's needed, even in good marriages. So he just gave his expertise. You have to understand, this was, this is a man who has not only the experience of being a therapist, but he's got the educational background. So he had lots and lots of information stored here. But our job is to get it from here out in a, in a, in a, in a blueprint, in a way that he can communicate with other people to show his

expertise. See Russ, this is why I, we talked in the pre-interview about needing to extend the length of the podcast, right? Like, cause we're, we're, we're getting close to time here. And also I got a lot of, uh, uh, extracurricular noise because the coffee shop's starting to get busier. Um, but we just now started to really open it up, right? Where we can start to dig into stuff. Um, I want to, uh, turn it over to you to, uh, share anything or ask any kind of questions, uh, to, to, to, to share with kind of the, to continue the conversation of anything that would be valuable, uh, to, to, to the audience, um, that, that you would like to share and also, um, you know, take as long as you need. Take as long as you need. And then also what are the best ways to, to get in touch with you? You know what? I think, um, something that, that, that helps me in terms of creating content. One, the strategy, the long-term strategy, which I discussed. The next thing is batching. So earlier we talked a lot about, um, do I look right on? I don't like the way I look on camera. I don't have the right clothing. Listen, if you take the time to what I call batch or other people call it batch as well. And that means creating a lot of content at once and then releasing it, um, or scheduling it off one that will give you the opportunity and the time to get your makeup, right. To get your clothing prepared, to have it all, um, ready for you. And then just take a day or two. And honestly, in two days, you can have two months worth of content easily. And therefore you don't have to get ready. You will be ready and scheduling it off in that way, takes it off your plate. So batching is one of the secrets that I have to creating a lot of content at one time and not thinking

about it again. Very often I'll go onto my LinkedIn and, um, I'll see a post and I'm like, when did I do that? Oh yeah, I remember. I didn't have to do it that day. It was two months ago. Um, so that's, that is one of my secrets. And I think the other thing is to get out of your own way, sit with someone else, sit with a colleague or a good friend and have them ask you questions about your industry. How did you learn how to do this? What problem were you solving then? What are 10 things that you know about this? What are 10 things to avoid? You would be, you will be shocked at how much information you have that has started to become second nature to you, but the rest of us don't know about. That if I started asking you questions about SEO, the information would tumble, tumble out of you. And I'd go, really? Wait, wait, hold on. Like some of the things you've already said. No, no, wow. I didn't even realize that things that come naturally to you because you're studying and you're paying attention naturally to the rest of us. And I think that's one of the things that people need to know. You are a wealth of information. People are a wealth of information and, um, you have forgotten. What it is that you know, that the rest of us don't know. So how can people get in touch with me? So I just want, I wanted to say finding your passion and then creating that content when you're in that state, um, keeps you on track, right. And it keeps your message on track. And so it's really easy to create that content. If you found your passion, if you didn't find your passion, it's going to be a stretch. Like I find even like when presenting on stage or talking to people, you're talking about something you're not passionate about, or you don't have a high degree of expertise in right. Then, then,

then it's unnatural. But once you get into that, that the right space, right, then it just flows like you said. And so I, I think that that's, um, great advice. Yeah. How did the expert maker like the expert maker? How, how do we, how do we get in touch? Let's see, you can find me on my website. Can you see that behind me? Expert dash maker.com. There you'll find the couple of things that we do. And I, I tend to do just a couple of things and do them. Well, one, we do have a two day intensive workshop called create a product in a weekend in that, in, in that weekend, we work with what Matt was talking about, finding your passion, uncovering your expertise, and then turning it into a product in just two days. So that this happens on a Saturday and Sunday by Monday, you've got something to sell. The other thing we do is I've created a team of creatives, photographers, videographers, editors, writers, graphic artists, producers. It has taken me several years to build this award-winning team and we do done for you services. So those of you who recognize that you need to be the face of your business, but you come up with a hundred excuses of why you can't do it. You won't do it. You shouldn't do it. This, that, and the other, we get, we kind of go get out of the way and we do it for you. So done for you is one of those things that the backstory is simple. I knew a lot of experts who were unwilling, not confident enough to showcase their expertise and be the face of their brands. And I kept going, well, all you have to do is this, this, and this. And then I finally realized, oh, okay, I'm going to have to do it for them. And that's why I built this team. And that's why I am the expert maker. We turn people who are already experts. My job isn't to turn you

into an expert, but to showcase your expertise. So you can find me on my website. I'm on Instagram, Ros, the expert maker, and on LinkedIn, Ros Miller Choice, the expert maker. Well, I will put all your links in the show notes. So anybody just go look in the show notes. I do a pretty good job of putting all those links in there. And so there you have it. This is like kind of personal brand new one-on-one I think is fantastic. You know, start ugly, get started is and find your passion. And I love those consolidated sessions where you, where you pull it all together and then you can get started. Because I think the hardest thing to do is to develop your own brand. I think it's a lot easier to be a third party, to have someone that knows what they're talking about, look at it, and they can give you a really critical eye and good advice. And there's a lot of people and a lot of tools. And so definitely, you know, get started now, right? Because it's going to take some time. I would say, take action, get started now. Check out the links in the show notes. Everybody, thank you so much for being around. Bye bye for now.