Brand Power: Maximizing Your Brand's Potential for Funding Success with Fred Cary Ep. 605

Howdy, welcome back to the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Matt Bertram. I'm your host today. Today I actually have a special guest that we're going to bring on, but first I wanted to tell you a little bit about how Google is deleting reviews. So right now you're on a little bit of a treadmill and Google is deleting reviews for a number of reasons. I was going to read you a review and Google actually deleted it. And I think the reason Google deleted it is because the language in the review wasn't specific to a service we were offering. And it was talking about overall branding restructuring that we did combined with their team, but it wasn't very clear. I'm going to be digging into this further because I was going to read that review as we were jumping on here today. And so you don't be looking out for that. Now on our last podcast, if you listen to it, we had a fractional VP of sales on talking about adding a sales team. And if you haven't heard that, I would go back and listen to it. And today to kind of continue that theme forward, I have Fred Carey with ideaprose.com who's actually was just telling me in the pre-interview that he's gotten a couple companies funded out in Silicon Valley recently. And we're going to be talking about the power of getting your brand ready to fund maybe your company within any market conditions. So there's a lot that kind of goes into fundraising and I thought it would be an interesting topic as it combined with branding, positioning, well, you know, digital marketing, all that. I think this is a topic that we haven't covered a lot and I think it'd be really valuable for a lot of people that are in their business and maybe looking to exit or raise some money at any time. So Fred, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. It's really great to be here. I'm looking forward to having a nice talk with

you. Awesome. Well, you know, I thought it was really interesting. Some of the stuff that you've done recently, maybe you could just introduce yourself and a little bit of your background and then we can start to maybe jump into at a high level the things that you're looking at from a branding standpoint when you evaluate companies. Yeah. Thanks. I will. I have been raising money most of my adult life. I've raised over two billion dollars with a B. And even in the last year, we've raised a ton of money for a lot of our companies. Idea Pros, which is my company, has about 400 companies under us that we helped launch and that we are minority holders in. So I'm constantly out there raising capital. And because of that, I really know how investors think and they don't think like you believe they think. And so the key to getting money is being able to understand the investor mindset, what they're really looking for, how you can hook them in and how you can leave with a check. And hopefully you'll learn all that stuff today. Oh, fantastic. So OK, so a lot of the listeners know how to do top of mind branding, generate leads, top line revenue growth, stuff like that. But really, there might be another set of metrics that investors and private equity, venture capital, people that are looking to give money are looking for in a brand. So let's try to dive into their mindset. When they evaluate a company, I'm assuming they go to the website first, they look at the social media. I mean, you tell me. Yeah. And evaluating a company takes place after you've gotten their interest. So there's an element of getting them to go and evaluate you. But there's a critical element before that, because if you can't get them interested, you can't get them to go to your website, you can't get them to look through your whole pitch deck, you can't get them to look at financials. And that's where everybody's really

and rightfully focuses. These are the financial numbers, this is the growth, this is how we're going to get somewhere. And that's all important. But before that, you have to hook them, and you have to hook them with a story. You have to hook them with that story within the first 15-20 seconds of when you're talking to them. And I'll give you a couple of examples as we go through. Perfect. Okay. Do you want me to give examples? Yeah. I want to hear some examples. I think a lot of people can take what you're saying and maybe try to apply it to their situation. Yeah. So I didn't want to hog the show, so I was pausing to see if you had anything else. Here's one good example. And this is a company that never pitched anywhere to anyone, much less venture capitalists up in Silicon Valley. I brought them up a couple of months ago, and the name of the company is Olive & Coop. You can see them, oliveandcoop.com. Olive & Coop is basically Airbnb meets Match.com. And the combination of... Elder people want to stay home. Maybe they're fragile, but they still have their facilities. They don't want to go to a nursing home or assisted living or live with their kids. They want to stay in place. They want to stay where their memories are. And as many of you younger folks that are listening know, that rents have gotten insane. Higher and higher. It's really hard to get a place near where you're going to school, near where you work. And it's created these two sets of problems. And Olive & Coop put these two together, where we're vetting college students and people in their 20s against older people that just really need some help around the house, like help with laundry or help with the kitchen or help with groceries or just company. And we've combined those two forces together. When we left that pitch, a very prominent VC, and we pitched about 50 VCs. A very prominent VC said,

this was the most amazing pitch I've seen in years. Now, these are people the first time ever pitching. They had all their numbers together. They had all the details together. But they started the conversation like this. I want to tell you about the day that I thought my father died. That was the first line. Now, is there anybody in the audience, knock, knock, that doesn't want to hear what happened after that? So write one sentence and you have people hooked in. Because the one thing we forget about with investors is they're human. And humans love stories. And if you can't weave your story through your pitch deck, even with all the best numbers and everything, you're not going to maintain their attention. They're going to be looking on their phone, answering emails, and listening to you go through the same. This is a problem. This is the solution. This is how we're different. This is our management team. This is how much money we need and so on. You're not going to get to those things if you can't tell your story. And so her story was really based upon the fact that her dad was laying in the kitchen floor for two days in his home before he was found. And he had to go to the hospital. And he was in there a long period of time. And when he was in the recovery phase, they brought him to their home. And his very first sentences were, I just want to go home. I want to go home. To his home. And so that's what got her thinking about Olive & Coop. And so we put the story of Olive & Coop and this event right through the entire pitch deck. And our last slide was not, hey, here's my name. Thanks for watching. And here's my contact info. The last slide was a picture of her dad out in this big field in Montana at his ranch with his arms folded looking cool as hell. And that was the last slide. And

everybody stayed attentive throughout the whole thing because we're able to tell a story. That's the key element in being able to have a good pitch. You have to find your story. What was that moment in time that you decided, screw it. I'm not going to work 9 to 5 anymore. I'm going to start my own thing. I know it's crazy. My wife's going to hate me. Or my husband's going to think I'm an idiot. But I'm going to do it. You've got to find that moment in time and weave that through your story. So, yeah. I've read a number of things around this. And even in the book that I wrote, Build Your Brand Mania, that's really some of the effort that you need to do is you need to bring people up. You need to get people to hook and buy into it emotionally. It's through brand storytelling. But you need to get them to understand your viewpoint of the world. Bring them up to that moment. And then share with them how you see the world and they see it from your eyes. And that's the key to getting someone to buy in. Because if they're coming from a different world perspective, they might not know. So, you've got to get them to your point. And then you need to show them that. I think that's a very powerful example of how to do that. Even when you talk about copywriting, I mean, 80% of the time is spent on figuring out the hook. Because no one's going to read the rest of it unless they're interested in reading that. And I'll hit with a lot of things. And I think from a pitch standpoint, I can absolutely see that. You get them invested in the story. And then they're attentive all the way through. And then there's this emotional connection to it at the end. I think that's brilliant. I think that's something that everybody should be striving to do. Yeah. And you're not going to get that downloading the standard pitch

deck form from Y Combinator or any of the rest of them. And God bless them. I mean, they're amazing. Y Combinator, Airbnb, Uber, name a company. They went through Y Combinator. But they teach you the very technical elements of it. And again, investors are human beings. Especially friends and family rounds, too. That's going to be really, really important for them to understand the why behind what you're doing. But it's an element that carries forward through all of your marketing efforts, not just the pitch part of it. The more authentic that you are, the more authentic you are as a brand, the more people are going to respond to you in a bigger way than just being your customer. And that is something that you really need to lead with all the time. You have a unique story. Regardless of what industry you're in, you have a unique story. Find that story, embrace it, and make it part of how you push your brand forward. Can you maybe give a couple more, maybe even high-level examples? We don't have to go into as much detail. When you're looking at, well, even companies that are approaching you, or companies that you might want to work with, or companies you think that maybe you can help fundraise, you're probably looking for that unique kind of hook or that storytelling to say, okay, is this solving a need, but how are they doing it, and how powerful is that message? I've had a number of companies come to us that are like, alright, I've talked to investors, they want to give me the money, but I need a website in the next two weeks because my website just doesn't represent my brand in any way. And then it's like, rush, rush, rush, because they're waiting on the check. If you're building that brand and you're looking at fundraising or doing an exit or something like that in the future, what are the tenants? Is there a checklist in your mind, or is there any kind of even high-level thing

of what you want to look for before you would accept a company, or if a company is ready to do fundraising or to exit, there's probably some kind of criteria. How would you evaluate that? In my view, my flagship product, it's just a guy or a girl and an idea. Most of the time, they don't have a name or anything. But now, as we've been getting more and more into this pitch side of things, you really need to look for people who are open to being challenged, that don't mind having everything that they built ripped apart and reassembled, if it needs to be, and are evolved enough to be able to get emotional or even better, create emotion in the people they talk to, because that's the fundamental element. So can I do that with just about any type of business? Yeah, there's a story in almost every single type of business. The story may be three steps away from exactly why you started, but the story is in there. And so I look first for, especially on the pitching side, the ability of somebody to stand up and authentically tell what's going on with them, why they started this company, why they're different, why they're going to grow, and what they're going to do with the capital, but telling it in a way different way than we're used to. How important are visuals, like the deck, the quality of the deck, their social media, their website? If someone's doing fundraising, where do these things fall on a priority level? What's the absolute critical to have, and then what are the tertiary things that help support that? Yeah, you need a really clean deck with a few bullet points that are easy to absorb. You don't want to be reading what you're showing people. And I've seen so many decks where you can't even hardly see, the font is so small. You just need a bullet point. I had a slide when I was doing, and I do this a couple times a month. I

have what's called Pitchcraft. It's a workshop. And, by the way, if you go pitch.ideapros.com, you can sign up for the next one. We have a couple of them a month, and it's completely free. But I've had slides where I'd go up, and the slide would say, look at this slide, and that's all it would say. And my point was, this is how much attention you need to have on your slide. Get people interested. Have them look at the slide, and then give them the details. Use the slide as your talking point. So why am I saying look at this slide? I'm saying look at this slide because we write too much when we do our pitch decks, way too much. It's too much information, and people are going to be reading instead of looking at you. You're not going to be able to make eye contact. You're not going to get your message across. Look at the slide for one second, and then look at me. And so that's the way that I have all of my companies do things. And minimalistic, you know, we want to have all these designs and moving graphics, and those things are distractions. You want people to focus on you, the story you're telling, and use these things only as highlights. If you have an app, maybe you show one or two screens of your app so they can visualize what it's about. Hey, Olive and Coop, this is our journey that we went. This is where Grandma signed up for it. This is where we find younger people to work together with us and how we make the marriage of these folks, you know, just as a demonstration. But never read 12 slides. I'm going to read every word on every slide. You're going to be boring as hell, and nobody's going to give you a penny. So, okay, so I think decks. Decks are really important, the cleanness of the deck, you know, using it as a tool. Okay, well, let's say, okay, you've decided your business,

and you're like, hey, I need some money to maybe grow, right? So maybe I'm not a startup, and I'm not, you know, trying to go into Silicon Valley. Maybe I just want some additional capital to grow, right? You could always go get a loan. You could get a line of credit. You could do that sort of thing. But maybe you want some, like, strategic help or some investors or something like that. You know, we were talking in the pre-interview, too, about acquisition entrepreneurship. So, you know, there's a lot of opportunities of businesses that maybe utilize the old way to generate leads or referrals or something like that, and they need to update their business. They need to optimize their growth. And there might be other issues with the business to grow, not just the marketing component. But, like, what are the things from the marketing standpoint that need to have the boxes checked if you're going to start approaching investors for money? I mean, certainly the P&L is there, but what else? Well, I think the most important thing is to have a credible, powerful, distinguishable brand, you know. And I can't tell you, and, God, it's probably even worse for you, but I can't tell you the number of times that people say, well, it's just a name and logo. You know, we can do that. We can have AI create something. The essence of your brand is going to be the foundation of every single thing that you do, and it's going to be how people look at you. And the more powerful and consistent your brand is, the bigger exit you're going to have and the more investors you're going to have likely to want to give you money because they see the value that you've built in that thing. Nike and the swoosh, right? He spent $85 for that swoosh and hated it. In fact, he hated the name Nike. It used to be called Blue Ribbon Sports, and it took a year for the marketing team to convince him to

change it to Nike because he thought Blue Ribbon Sports was a great name because it's very descriptive. And so you want to have brands that stand out because once you stand out, the imagination runs. Apple. If I tell you tomorrow Apple is releasing an electric toothbrush for the first time in history, you're going to know everything about what that toothbrush does because of the essence and power of that brand. And so as an investor, I want to see a brand that has the ability not just to do well with the products or services that they have now, but can do well with additional products because audiences are more loyal to brands that focus on their brand essence and consistency and power. Because now as an investor, I can look at it. Wow. Look at these people. The lifetime customer value of these people is off the charts. And I know that now if we invest in this company and we introduce 10 new products, we have a built-in audience. It's going to buy all of them because they love this brand so much. That's how important it is because you can let investors see the future based on how you're performing today. So what if you're a 10 million or a $20 million company and you're, you're not at the level of Nike yet and you're, you're looking to do some brand building, right? When you're, when you're looking at it through investor eyes and you're seeing that potential value and, and where that brand could go and, and you know what the opportunity is right to have that, that big exit, what are probably the things going through your head on the criteria to, to say, this is a good brand, right? Like, how are you, what, what, like, is there, there's probably some kind of algorithmic thing you have in your mind that you don't even know you're doing that you're identifying. Does it do this? Does it do this to this, this from a checklist standpoint, if, if you were to just

boil it down to some actionable steps. Yeah. I think, I think the brands that end up performing the best are the brands that are disruptive, that cause you to think, and Apple again is a, is a great example. You know what, what the hell is that? You know, can you imagine if, if when they were going to name it, they sat in front of a thousand people and this little skinny guy in a black t-shirt goes on stage and says, Hey, I have this new company. I want to compete against IBM and Microsoft and digital equipment and 10 other industrial names. And I want to call it Apple. There'd be nobody in that audience who'd raised their hand and said, yeah, that's a great name. But those are the most powerful names cause they evoke, right? You need to have evocative names, evocative positioning, set yourself out from the rest because now people are buying a relationship from you rather than buying your commodity. So it doesn't matter. You could have, you could put an Apple product and an Android product side by side and the Android product may cost less, but may have a bigger hard drive may have a better resolution on the phone. And you're going to pay almost twice as much for the Apple device because you're not buying the brand. You're buying the essence of the brand, right? So you're not buying the stuff. So that's what, what I really look for and that's what investors look for. Will people give a value to the relationship, right? A value to the relationship rather than a value to the commodity. And if you can get it, you can get in anywhere at any size company. If people are buying into the relationship, if you're making them feel something, then that's from an investment standpoint, that's a really, really good thing. Okay. So, so if you're starting a company, it's a provocative name, that's like, you know, blank canvas, blue ocean strategy. You kind of build that equity in that brand. We've

done this with, with businesses that are launching like a new product line in a saturated market, rename it something else, put all your marketing towards that. And then you can easier track the revenue growth and there's not as much, you know, cannibalization, right? So I've seen some of that. What if you have an established brand? Does it make sense to change, change your name? If that, that name built a lot of equity in that, or you know, what, what if, what if, yeah, you, you, you've been, you're taking over maybe a parent's business or you're, you're buying a business and it already has some kind of equity in that brand. Maybe it's a commoditized name where it's a exact match domain or something like that. But like, do you change it all? Or like if, if the, if you just see a company that's established, that's fundraising, I know the focus is on, I guess, ideas, but if you were just to look at, just remove yourself from the startup mode and go, okay, I'm looking at established companies, their name is their name, their logos, maybe their logo, maybe they need a new logo, right? Like maybe there's like, you know, but, but there's a cost, right? There's a, there's a cost to changing that name of people identifying you for a certain number of years, or if you have that name and you're happy with the name and maybe it needs change, maybe it doesn't. And, and you want to go to investors with that. Like if you're evaluating maybe a, a established name that has a brand equity, some kind of brand equity to it, how are you evaluating how much brand equity that has if, if we're not clean, clean canvas situation? Yeah. And that's a good point. But you know, there are multi-billion dollar multinational companies, Accenture, for example, that changed their name. I don't even remember what the hell their name was before, but they were already in a hundred countries and a multi-billion dollars in revenue. So there

are, I would say, don't change your name if you have really good momentum, you have really great customers, you're really growing your business and things are amazing. If you have your $10 million company and last year you were doing $10 million and three years ago you were doing $10 million, there's something wrong and you need a restart. And sometimes as hard as it is, that restart happens by completely rebranding yourself. But rebranding is not, it's not just skin. You know, it's, it goes all the way to your guts. Your identity. Right? Yeah. Very, very much so. It's just like with us, we can sit around and talk, have a beer, cappuccino, whatever, speak for half an hour. We'll get a good understanding of fundamentally what we're kind of about. You don't have that with a company, right? There's no veneer that you can really see what a company is about. So if you're going to go through a branding exercise at any stage, make sure that that goes with the new core of what you're going to be about. So if that company, that example of that $10 million a year, not growing at all, they have a commodity. They don't have a brand that they can go somewhere. So when you're going through the essence of it, definitely rebranding is a component of it. But looking at what you're doing, how am I going to position myself differently? How am I going to get my customers to recognize what I have is more than just these widgets that I'm trying to sell to them. So in that type of instance, this complete rebirth, if you will, I think is fundamental to getting to the next level. No, I really like that. And I think that existing businesses, I've seen so many new businesses that come to us that haven't put any kind of effort into their about us page or their core value, their brand identity. And well, that's the most looked at page besides the homepage on a website, right? As who are

you, who am I doing business with? This is the first entree to get to notice somebody. So I think that it is incredibly important. And I like that idea. If you're, if you're flat, you might need some kind of restart. Right. And you know, there's, there's a lot that goes into it. Right. You got to change all your socials. You got to change all your collateral. You got to change your branding. Like from an investment standpoint, quite a big investment. And so having a strategy to put that together, we even have a large oil and gas company that I think that their product strategy is wrong. And their channel strategy is, is, is actually wrong. It's not so much their marketing and, and branding. Right. Like I think, you know, from a messaging standpoint, they're unhappy with their existing agency and, and they're looking to move to us. And it's like, I don't know if you switch, if you switch like that top line veneer, if it's going to do anything because you got to, you got to get down to who you really are and how you're solving this problem and you being different than somebody else. So, you know, some of the other, I think this is really good to start thinking about this from a brand standpoint. I want to take the next maybe a segment here and start talking about like maybe MNA strategies or creating partnerships or, or kind of starting to go a little bit outside that marketing box. So everybody that listens to this, you know, I think has is more educated than most on, on a lot of these digital marketing strategies, but there's other things that need to happen to make a business grow. I mean, many times we have businesses that get too many leads and don't even know what to do with them, right. Or they can't scale there's operational efficiencies that need to improve. And like even adding like a sales structure, it's more of a business planning operation to figure out how

you're going to handle this capacity and what you need. And so you touch on a lot of these other areas. So I'd love to take the conversation, maybe some of these other directions and kind of just lightly touch on some other things that you think are important. Well, let's focus for a minute on the opportunity to, to grow by acquisition. Most mergers fail and they fail because the same stuff that we're talking about right now, fail because you're trying to marry two different cultures that don't fit well together. Now from a business operational standpoint, they may be perfect. It may be, wow, I can go horizontally all the way across here and I have these seven new things I can give my customer base, but the way that the company thinks, the way that their employees are trained and, and how they react to customers may be completely different than what you do as an organization. So fundamentally to, to eliminate the possibility of high failure rate of mergers, you really need to start at the essence of the company. So what do you guys stand for? Does this other company stand for something similar? Can you see the synergies in the way that both companies treat their customers and the way they value things? And if you can, then that's one of the first steps. And that's why it's so important that with the type of work that you're doing and, and what I'm doing to try to get people to really hone in on their essence. It's why it's so important because if you don't know who you are, then you're going to fall into an opportunity. It looks good on the surface, but we'll end up destroying everything because you're going to put two opposite forces together. And, and the acrimony that takes place afterwards is going to be intolerable and will affect your sales in a negative way. So that's one element that, that I would talk about. The, the other, you know, there's a lot of companies that, that at

some point the founder wants to consider an exit and, and it may not be a company that's necessarily a venture capital backed type entity. It could, it could be a local, regional, even national business. And maybe it's not so sexy that venture capital wants to get involved in it. But even then, you know, it's, you know, how presidents always look better in a box with a, with a bow around them and, and a nice personal message. It's the same thing with your business. I mean, your business has to operate really well. Your employees have to be very motivated. You have to have systems in place to kind of keep them happy and keep them with you. You have to have lots of repeat customers and all those things happen by you having consistency in your brand. Again, some people think it's a name and a tagline. the brand is the essence of who you are. And so if you build everything out and are very, very mindful that everything you do is not opportunistic, but it is in furtherance of the brand. Then when it becomes time for you to, to have that exit by, by an acquisition, you're going to be a lot more likely to pull it off. Let me, I'll just give you one random stupid example. Maybe the board of directors of Starbucks may be given a thought that, you know, we did a survey and we find out that if we have kind of big seven, 11, 99 cent coffees available is one of the many items that we offer. We can increase our revenue by 20% on the surface. That looks like a great deal, but it's completely against the essence of what that company is all about. Elevated situation. You can come here, you can work here. You can have your coffee, 78 different ways that they would kill you in Italy. If you try to order anything like that. And, and, and that's the essence of who they are. And so even if there's revenue growth opportunities,

if it's not consistent with the essence of your brand, those are things to be avoided. And so as you build this consistency and brand identity, people buy that. I mean, how much would you pay for the Apple logo? How much would you pay for Nike swoosh? Just that one little logo is probably worth a billion dollars, a trillion dollars. And it's worth that because the essence of their brand is so powerful that that little tagline, that little logo is something that carries a great amount of weight. Same thing when you're being acquired. Fantastic. Right. I think that that is just awesome. I think there's tremendous value and really thinking about the brand and, and doing bone brick building. And I think it's where you, you start, you start at that fundamental level and then everything builds into that. I know that there's a lot of other things that you have experienced with to talk about on, you know, organizational structure, building efficiencies, growth. We, we didn't even really get into MNA and funding. Got to have you back on to talk more about that stuff. I know we got a hard stop coming up. So I wanted to be respectful of that. We are launching a small business coaching program. It was funny. We have a domain where we, we've collected a lot of domains over the last 23 years. And I was going to use the, I'll ask you this on, on air. Let's see what you think. Okay. So essentially, I have to be truthful. Yeah. Yeah. No, I want, I want a real answer because it's, it's time I can change it, but we have an old domain. It was called instant leads guaranteed. Okay. And it was, it was a program we launched literally when AdWords was starting and everything was, you know, cents per click. Right. And no one knew what PPC or anything like that was. We've just held onto the domain. And I was about to go through the, the thought exercise of establishing like a small business

coaching program. Cause I got people beating down my door that said, Hey, we're learning how to do this. We want to DIY it. We need heavy lifting. Sometimes we'd love to be part of community. We want coaching. I, I started doing some agency coaching and I thought it was going to be for a month or two. Now we're like eight, nine months going, I got other agencies asking me. And so, you know, going to launch a small business coaching program. And I just, I didn't, I guess I wasn't ready to put in the effort to do a whole whiteboarding session and really figure it out. And certainly the commoditized, Hey, small business coaching, whatever is a way to go. So you don't have to build a lot of brand equity. But then I started thinking about it. I started going, you know, instantly it's guaranteed a lot of small business owners. That's typically what they're looking for. I do think it's like, what's next after that. But I thought that might be a provocative name for a small business coaching program. Instantly it's guaranteed. Want to get your thoughts on that? Cause I'm building it on a dev server right now. I haven't launched it yet. You know, what are your thoughts on that? Give me a, some, sage advice if you could, and then we'll get out of here. All right. Well, I think that would make a great tagline. So not every small business is going to hit when you name, I don't think it's good name, but here's the reason it's completely descriptive, right? So it does address what people would love to have instantly. It's guaranteed. Yeah, but it might be delivering a promise that you can't keep. Number one. And, and number two, it's so descriptive that it's hard to protect. I would, I would really study like, what is it that a small business owner really needs and that I can deliver to them that they don't have. It's probably more than leads. And, you know, things like when

I, when I think about it, when I had my MBA years ago and the internet was just starting the title of my, my thesis was born global. And it was the argument that any company of any size can launch all over the world with the internet starting, starting to grow. And I think you need to find that same kind of sweet spot. Like what can I deliver to small business owners that is really going to change their life around? And, and I think AI can help you, but, but AI, I think it suffers a little bit on, on being fanciful and evocative. You really got to train it to, to do something like that. But I always opined for powerful, impactful names that leave people guessing a little bit. You, you went to kind of the opposite on that. You're like, these people need leads. I'm going to get them damn leads. And that could be great. You know, this, this is, you know, Matt's company and whatever insert name, instant leads guaranteed is one of the bullet points, you know, and you find the top three or four bullet points of what you, how you're going to change their small business. And maybe they don't even want to hear that it's a small business. But I think a more evocative name would be more powerful. I can help you offline. Awesome. Well, thank you. I think everybody will, we're going through this journey together. Fred, I really appreciate all the advice. What's the best way for someone to reach out to you and get in contact with you? Yeah. Well, idea, pros.com. If you go to idea, pros.com, the very first thing that you can see there is a become an insider. It's all free. We give you tons of tips. We have a newsletter every week. We have live workshops two or three times a month. Again, everything is a hundred percent free. You go on there and become a member and, and, and get that stuff. Number one, number two, you can

go to pitch.ideapros.com and sign up for, for my next pitch craft to go in depth on, on how you can go out there and get capital. And, and number three, Instagram official, Fred carry C-A-R-Y. I have about a half a million followers right now. Let's help me get to a million. And finally, Fred at idea, pros.com. If you have a great idea, if you have a business that's struggling or, or you're growing too fast, you don't know what the hell to do. Just write to me and I'll respond to whether I can help you or direct you. Well, awesome guys. You see how important that fundamental work is. I'm trying to shortcut it. I got to do the actual workshop, really work through it. I'm getting some advice, getting some help. You can see it. You need to do that. So go check out idea pros. Check out Fred. Thank you for listening. If you want to grow your business with the largest, most powerful tool on the planet, which is the internet, reach out to us at EWR digital.com. And we'll help connect you with the right person or help you ourselves if we can. So thanks so much, Fred, for being on and thank you all for listening. Thanks, Matt. Really appreciate you. Bye bye for now.