Mastering the Art of Link Building (Part 2) Ep. 600

Howdy, welcome to the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Matt Bertram. I hope you're all doing well out there. I'm going to do the part two of the art of link building or mastering the art of link building. I've gotten a number of requests to kind of finish that out. Really want to go deep with some of those things. I actually have found a number of articles that I can share with you as it relates to link building. But you know, one of the things that I think, I don't know, I don't believe I'm the only one out there, but there's a lack of substance in a lot of articles that are being written that give you like the very top line kind of bullet points, but they don't go into the details. Certainly I've seen that a lot with people spending a lot of time with shorts, right, versus long form podcasts to really go into those concepts deep. I know I'm not speaking to everyone out there if you're listening to this podcast, but I've had a lot of conversations with a number of people and a lot of people are kind of getting stuck in the short loops as well as skimming articles online. So at the end of this, I'm also going to recommend a book to you that I've found extremely beneficial from a link building standpoint and really the theme of this podcast is going to be about how you need to go deep when you're looking at link building. Now before I want to get into it, I wanted to share a few things. First is I do have two new books out, No Like Trust podcast, a podcast marketing guide for small business owners. And so I talked to a lot of people that want to build a brand. I know I have some other books out there related to this, but I really do believe that a podcast is the greatest kind of container to fit everything you're trying to do from storytelling, brand

building, social media marketing, etc, etc. Content creation podcast is a great way to do it. And so I love to, when I learn something, just kind of encapsulate it in a book that other people can use or in information other people can use, because if not, I believe it's waste. So, you know, go check this out. It's on Amazon. I think it's like a couple bucks. I don't know. But if you get a book, please leave me a review. So I really, really appreciate that. Do have an audio version as well. And then my other book out there, Search. Do I really need SEO? The enterprise level playbook to grow your business with search engine optimization. That's really kind of when I was learning SEO, it was just so much to comprehend. There were so many different components. And so while I don't go into everything of how to do it all, I mean, that would be just a massive, massive book. I do really lay out the foundation and I try to set the table for you of what you need to be looking for with SEO and it is fairly recent. So I talked about AI and some other things in there. And again, just appreciate your support. Please leave a review. Not trying to make any money off the book. Just want to put good information out there. So hopefully you find it helpful. All right. Second thing is I just got back from a innovation conference in Denver. Awesome conference. Met some fantastic people, reconnected with some other awesome people. I mean, I'm talking like Forbes, 30 under 30 people that are starting, well, multi-million dollar, billion dollar businesses from nothing. So like growth, hacking, growing. This is a lot in the cryptocurrency space. I was actually with like a 22 year old, a 25 year old and something else. And they and some of these people I'm going to bring on the podcast do do marketing in that space. They were given allocation of this coin that, well, made them

all millionaires when I was with them. It's pretty, pretty cool stuff. I know I talk about that. It's just really exciting. I believe that the future is moving towards tokenization. And if you've been listening to my podcast, I did say this a while ago, it's going to get crazy. I think we're now starting to get into that season. But anyways, some of these people that I met, we may even, I'm going to bring some of them on the podcast, but we had like some five hour discussions. Some of these people are at the very forefront of culture out in LA. They're shaping kind of the world. As it relates to me, it's kind of corporate social responsibility, sustainability. But some of these people are just world changing, like if you understand the human experience and culture. So I've learned a lot. I've been educated a lot. We've had some great conversations. Again, I'm talking like five hour conversations with no lulls in it. And some of the things we talked about, we actually felt that we wanted to share those. And so we are discussing a format to have a group style podcast. It's going to be outside of this podcast because I know people are here and are like trying to hit fast forward. They just want the value of SEO, I get it. But if you are interested in that sort of thing, stay tuned. And then let's go ahead and get into it. I would just say, hey, if you do listen to this podcast and you are getting value, please like it, share it, comment wherever you're listening to it. I will leave a place to leave reviews as well. We also love to connect with you. So I do have office hours, you can set up a free consultation. Also doing a lot of great consulting, a lot of consulting. So if you need help, also have been doing coaching, we've tried out a pilot program for the last six months, going to get some testimonials there. And that might

be something to roll into if you're looking at growing your digital agency, if you're looking at improving the SEO you're offering for your clients, I think we could really help out a lot. And, you know, I'll get those testimonials and let those people share how that's going. So with no further ado, that's just was on my head, I will try to jump in here. So I'm going to pull over some of these articles and to kind of lay it out for you. Link building is the art of sending signals to Google from a machine learning standpoint for it to understand what you're trying to say. And when you talk to a lot of people that are deep into link building, certainly there are services out there that will just give you a bunch of links. And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about building thoughtful connections, and building connective nodes to information to people to topics. And you're building roads and highways, a lot of maybe you've heard me talk about in the past, different neighborhoods. One of the big things that I want to say, and it's important to know, is the machine learning can understand what's going on and can see stuff. So if there's something that you're getting a link that's not in your kind of general universe, it sends a big red flag. So it's like, imagine like a huge universe, and then there's a link coming in from the other side of the universe. It's like, oh, what is this? This is unnatural. So there is a strategy when you're building a link building campaign to create that, to craft it in a way that really communicates in Google language or search engine language, what you're trying to say and what you're trying to do. Also, you know, a lot of times you see people building a bunch of spammy links, or even directory links, if they're not specific to what you're saying, they really water down the signals that you're trying to create. And Google came out

recently and said, hey, don't say more than you want to say, just say what you need to say in whatever concise topic or container you want to put that in, but say it concisely. All these other signals, if you don't feel like they're necessary, and you're doing it for search engines, just don't do it. That's from a content creation standpoint. But also same thing with links, like if you don't know what you're doing with interlinking or external linking, or building kind of the web to network outside of what you're doing, less is more, because if you create signals that you don't know what you're sending, you're just going to confuse it because what the search engines and the spiders are trying to give you is well, the best possible search for the people looking for it. So it's really understanding the art of crafting these things. Some of the best link building strategies are strategies that, well, never get shared. And it's what you're doing under the surface to build these nodes and to build these connections of information to position in a way to then redirect the SEO to where it goes. And so, you know, these big link building services, say, don't, in my opinion, provide a ton of value. I think it's like through brute force, it kind of happens. But in these neighborhoods, like I was saying before, if someone is doing something nefarious or are buying or selling links, and you're even one, I believe it's for sure one, it may be even more touches away from it. So a website that you're connected to that's linking to you that's doing this, it kind of creates toxicity to you, right, because you're in, in that neighborhood. And certainly you don't want direct links from that sort of thing to you. And so you want to stay away from that, right? You want to build genuine connections. You want to put out things that people generally want to link to, right? And so I have a couple articles here that will

go through some ideas and I'll provide like my two cents on, right? So this is a search engine journal. I haven't been writing as much for them recently because I've been working on my own stuff. But seven creative ways to earn or build links to your site. This is by Jeff Riddle. He's a VIP contributor. I'm going to kind of breeze through this, but he kind of sets the table. Produce unique research. Respond to a popular trending article. Certainly Google Trends is a great way to capture that. There's a number of podcasts that do that as well as to kind of ride where social attention is. Update or elaborate on links in relevant posts. Absolutely. Offer free tools. Create unique images or graphics. Certainly anything that unique. Here's a tip. If your site has a bunch of stock imagery, yes or no, do you think you're getting credit for those images? The person that created those images and posted them first on Google are getting credit. So unique infographics, unique images, those are things that you want to do. And certainly AI in the form of graphics or videos. I was listening to a webmaster podcast by Google and they didn't come out and say it, say it, but they said it. That is considered unique content. And so I would encourage you to check it out. We've been doing a lot of that for some of our clients. Review the SERPs. Building trusting relationships. So he goes into more detail. He's talking about producing unique research. Certainly if you have data that no one else has and you can put this together and study or write a paper on it and put it out there, certainly it's unique content that's going to get indexed because Google's not indexing stuff as much as they used to. So you can't be guaranteed that if you're just putting out a mediocre blog that it's going to get indexed. I would tell you a lot of people that are coming to us that some of the problem is

even pages are getting indexed because they're just not original enough to be in the top 100 searches in Google. And so we've been a huge fan of unique organic images or videos. Blog photography is useful to complement the website and blog posts but unique creative images extend the content they accompany with much more authenticity and authority. Looking to incorporate original images and photos into your content wherever possible is practical in both B2C and B2B. Using authorized photos of actual people and products in action is more likely to result in human connection and engagement which will increase shares and links. So this is super basic, like you've heard this before. Create infographics, getting those indexed in Google, Google images, respond to popular trending articles. So when you're looking at blogs, when you're looking at what people are searching for, I would look at the first page of Google maybe as the public conversation, the public forum. Kind of like Twitter on social media I guess but more like in the search engines, what people are talking about, what is important. And so there's something called diversity of query and so differencing opinions based on the algorithm, what people are saying, what's popular, what people are searching for. Really interesting to look at the top search results and see if there's something you can add to the conversation and you adding a unique opinion to that conversation. Even if you add it on social media channels, sometimes it even gets indexed in Google. I'm seeing a lot of stuff get indexed in Google like say from YouTube, from LinkedIn. Also they added a new update called hidden gems which is showing a lot of Reddit forums and that sort of thing to again provide that diversity of thought. Update or elaborate can be on posts. So going and re-optimizing existing content, absolutely. Free tools has been a great way to get engagement in the past. Look for opportunities to build links from directories, industry publications, that's big, associations, ads, links or directories, partner affiliate sites, local business

sites. That's important if you're geographically located, not e-commerce nationally. Comments on blog posts and certainly do not spam. We actually have part of our checklist internally just turn off comments, especially if it's a small business. It's typically just people trying to get a default link. So unless it's like a really bigger forum and you're really on there to add value, I would encourage you not to do it. Blog posts, article updates, video comments, I think video comments and also I'll give you this. This is a little pro tip. This is specifically to LinkedIn but there's a different point system and I believe that this extends across all social media platforms. A like is worth on LinkedIn one point, let's say, and then a short comment or even an emoji. Just put an emoji. It's worth three points. And then a long, thoughtful post is worth five and then if you can get additional engagement from it, you can rack up those points and also it's being looked at in a shorter timeframe. There's kind of this magic window of a quote-unquote audition period where the value of the engagement is higher. But a lot of this comes down to building trusted relationships and trying to mirror what's happening in the real world online. If you know somebody, you connect with them on social media. You might comment on their stuff. Same thing with websites and websites should really be viewed as we move through digital transformation as more of an interactive platform versus just a display brochure of what you do. Again, I've said this many times, like 85-90% of the customer journey is happening online before they pick up the phone and call you. So you want to provide more of that customer journey in answering those questions and who you're speaking to in the personalization on the website, which you can control. And then certainly you can extend it to the, I call it web 2.0, but like social media, other platforms, that sort of thing. You can connect with different communities, like

Substack or Medium, LinkedIn, stuff like that. So it's a way to kind of tap into an existing community. But again, that original journal article, while I did not read it all, really basic things, I think things that most of us know. Then so let me close, ooh, I shouldn't close these because, well, I got to find them again to put them in the show notes, but okay. So I have another article here that's on LinkedIn Pulse, LinkedIn Pulse, super powerful. Check it out. If you haven't, building a newsletter on LinkedIn will really boost your reach. We built some newsletters for clients that in three days have gotten to like 60,000 followers. And so it's a one-time push out, notify everybody you've started, something I have one on decentralized marketing on LinkedIn, because I really do believe the future is in web 3.0, but there might be something that you're passionate about that you want to talk about. I encourage you to do that based on your connections. It's a great way to, well, utilize LinkedIn from an email distribution standpoint, as well as a blog posting standpoint and garner additional views, visibility, expertise, traffic or authority, sorry, and traffic all on the LinkedIn platform, super, super easy to do. All right. This is 23 Link Building Ideas by Omar Malik. I'm not sure if I'm saying his name right, but you know, again, he just, you know, listed a bunch of things. So listen, and then he only provides like a pair, not even a paragraph, like a sentence about each thing. But I think since we're talking about this, we want to cover as much stuff as we can. Ask people if they know, if you know for links now, okay. If the person is not in your industry and it's not related to what you say, and it's just a random link, again, like I talked about before, it creates random noise. All right. Submit your sites to local listings. Again, there's kind of top tier listings. He talks about Google My Business

or Google Business Profile, Yelp, Yellow Pages. There's a few others. There's top tier listings, there's industry specific listings, there's geo specific listings, but then there's just a bunch of random stuff. And you want to look at the domain, you know, use these different words, domain authority or like majestic, you know, trust flow, citation flow, this sort of thing to see if these are even relevant. Maybe look to see if there's even any traffic coming to these. If they're low quality links, you're just spinning your wheels. They're a waste of time. These high quality citations are 10 times, 100 times more powerful. And you got to think about, is it going to get indexed? So if you're just building a bunch of citations for the sake of building citations and they're not even relevant and no one's using the sites, Google's not going to look at it or the different search engines are not going to look at it as valuable. So something to think about. These roundup posts, he says contribute crowdsource posts. So that's kind of, you know, these are called hub pages, okay? This is like review sites or you get a bunch of experts to talk about something in particular. These are still effective, but they should be useful. And that is one of the posts I'm going to get to here in a minute that I think has tremendous value. So if you do it right, they're fantastic. This would be just considered a roundup maybe of different ideas, right? Or maybe a listing post, which has some value, but again, I'm going to keep moving up the chain of high quality value creation. All right. So contribute to, okay, those, give someone a testimonial, testimonials. I've seen people do this and even, what's his name? Sell like crazy or whatever his name is, King Kong. He, I don't, I have never met him, but he was trying to build a presence over here. He left me a review. And the reason he leaved a review is he connected to me,

sent the signal that, Hey, I'm like this person. I communicate with this person, like be better if he like reached out to me or he wrote something more specific. It was kind of spammy, but I understood why he was doing it and he was building a bridge between me and him. And there's a benefit kind of both ways when you're doing outbound links, there's kind of that same thing. But certainly if you leave a genuine testimonial and you connect with product or businesses, you're building that kind of ecosystem, that community, that neighborhood. And certainly people are looking for positive or negative sentiment in those testimonials. So that's quite important too. But yeah, I think testimonials are underutilized way of connecting out with people. So if there's people, not directly in your industry, but in like adjacent industries, that would be fantastic. If you can get people in your industry to leave your review, those are fantastic. Times two, I guess, because they're kind of your peers are looking to you and it creates a sense of authority in the space, right? been way overdone getting them to link back to you, but look like this, if you're pitching it and you're adding real value to content and it's not like this kind of very thinly veiled kind of strategy, I think that they're fantastic. I think that there's like, just like bringing a guest on the podcast and I'm going to bring some like social agencies that are working with like designer brands at the cutting edge of culture, right? That guest post, which we could turn into a guest post, but a guest podcast is bringing really high value thing and they're not paying to come on it. It's just something I think would be valuable for the audience to hear. They want to provide it. And again, we have a relationship and a connection. And so that is something that Google's looking for. That's positive. All right. Recovering your dead backlinks. This is huge. This is so underutilized because it's so boring, but

it's so important. There's a lot of degradation. I don't know if that's the right word, but there's a lot of decay on the internet of websites going down, links getting broken, redirects not happening. So broken links are there. There's a lot of well, high quality ranking sites that are linking to broken links, whether it be on the page, out to other people, et cetera, et cetera. You know, kind of replacing those links with other links is great and helpful. If you reach out to somebody and say, Hey, this link is broken. Here is another article that does the same thing. You know, that works probably, I don't know, 15, 20% of the time. I mean, it's certainly, and if you get one really high quality link, it's totally worth it. Think about companies that go under, right? And there's been, let's say, let's just use crypto, for example, there's a bunch of big companies that exchanges that went under, they spent millions of dollars on PR, right? And so people probably don't want to link to that site anymore to be associated with maybe something negative that happened. That's a great target to go through and harvest those links and redirect those. Certainly just broken links in general, there's different tools you can use to find those things. That is a positive offering to the community. I don't know. I'm not saying this right. I'm trying to think of that as something, but it's a positive thing to do to be someone that's helping to clean up like a positive service or a community service to go around and clean up those links. And then how you're getting paid for it is in link equity and link juice. And so I believe this is so underrated, but I think it's a fantastic thing to be doing. And it is something that we do and we do offer for clients that have a brand. So you kind of, there's like a strategy and there's like different layers that you want to do, but for a big

site to link out to you, for example, with broken link building or other, you might not have to be at that level of them, but you need to be at some level where there's some, I don't even know what the word is, notoriety associated with your brand. Unless again, it's like local companies and you're working in a local ecosystem, but it's kind of like you don't jump from the junior leagues to the, you know, the pros like immediately, right? There's other layers. There's other kinds of steps to build up to that. Okay. Launch a contest. This is the best way I've ever seen to get engagement on social media. Again, all those shares likes that sort of thing are considered links. Create an infographic. I love infographics. People comprehend information through visuals. I just am a big fan of infographics. Publish lists just like this one. Post product comparisons. Product comparisons. That's been happening for a long time. Great. Quizzes and tests. If you have a good audience and you can get engagement, certainly Twitter is, is great for that. I think Twitter X, sorry, is certainly being underutilized. You might want to revisit that as a way to reach people. I see a lot more engagement on that and there's a lot of positive things happening there. Even long form content that you can publish, et cetera, et cetera. Printables, so templates, worksheets, again, value creation, emailing people that you mentioned in your post to kind of engage them or tag them on LinkedIn, absolutely. Find and turn mentions into links. Yes, brand mentions are important. There's different tools out there. You can also set up free Google alerts on your company name, yourself, whatever. That's a great way to see what people are saying out there. As you grow, it becomes really important to build a brand across mediums and having positive sentiment in people talking about you. Post on Quora and other sites like that. Okay, talked about broken link building again. Take part in interviews. Okay, we're kind of stretching here.

Wikipedia pages, be careful. There's a lot that people can say about Wikipedia, but yeah, Wikipedia is quite powerful. There's other wikis out there as well. Add links to videos on YouTube. I would tell you optimizing your YouTube is huge. Videos, YouTube's second biggest search engine on the web. Also random fact, like DuckDuckGo's top 10, so super interesting. That's something we're looking into more. I was surprised when I read that. YouTube optimizing for YouTube really helps. Google's kind of bringing all that together under universal search, so again, second biggest search engine. More people are watching videos than not, so consider that. Publish high quality images. 4K images make a difference for sure. We've been doing that too, is going through and replacing low quality images, stock images as we can. Okay, this is buying expired domains with backlinks. If you're an affiliate, you're trying to rank really quickly. This is not more of a long-term strategy. This is not something I would totally recommend. Research competitors for backlinks and see what they do. I think that's a great strategy, but again, it's got to make sense for your geographic location and your industry. All right, moving on, Backlinko's got a big list here. How are we doing on time? Let me see. We are at 30 minutes. All right, so I'm going to do about 10 more minutes of this. I may skip through this and get to what I want to show you. He talks about, well, Better Business Bureau. Good recommendation if you're a local business. That's a high quality link. Also, Chamber of Commerce, absolutely, so I agree with a lot of what he's saying. He's talking about crowdsourcing, I'm going fast here, charities and non-profits. All those links that are local to the community, I think that there is some value there. Even if their websites aren't built correctly, Google kind of gives them grace in a sense. I wouldn't check all the box as you would in other kind of areas, but certainly getting involved with non-profits is a fantastic way

to go. Broken link building, guest posting, job posting, so again, job posting. There's kind of some unique strategies in there, but also Google knows what's for jobs and what's not, so again, you got to think about your broader strategies. Let's read this. If you have any job or internships, you can get a fast, easy EDU links. For example, if you work in anthropology and you're looking for an intern, here's an easy link. If you run an agency, compile as many of these opportunities as you can in a spreadsheet. Categorize them by category, travel, hospitality, etc. They will come in handy whenever you need to land a client in that niche, so diversity of links is important. That's definitely an advanced strategy and something to consider, scholarship strategies, I think we'll talk about that in the next one. Link out, yeah, I think link it out. Links from shopping mall websites, if you're located in a shopping mall, see that's kind of different, right? I'm going to keep going fast here. Local listings, mentions, niche directories, and I'll slow down anyone that I think good. Offline marketing, I think offline marketing and even radio and stuff like that where you bring in people that you don't know where they're coming from has this kind of underlying, what is it called, dark social, I forget what the buzz term was a while ago, but essentially this is just what is happening but you're not seeing happening online. I think offline to online, online to offline, the customer journey is so unique when you're talking multi-channel touches. This is really like grassroots, right? I've seen this, like putting a sticker, it says your URL on your car, I would even say add a QR code to that, it creates ban awareness traffic, et cetera. Retailer pages, paid directories, and there are some valuable paid directories, they're recommending like Joe Ant and WOTW, you might want to check that out, and BBB of course is kind of like a real staple, I think there's additional value there. I am

on the marketing committee for the Houston chapter, so I certainly believe in that. Printable resources, FAQ sites, profile links, this is another thing. Building a bunch of profile links on platforms that you're going to actually use if you want to build a syndication like an IFTT network and push this stuff out, that works too but you don't, just having a profile link is not very valuable unless you're going to actually use that platform, right? And what does it say? If you do build links to profiles, make sure you focus on niche specific profiles, that way your links don't look spammy, right? So again, you're creating more noise if you're just randomly building a profile on everything you build a profile on, you kind of dilute what you're trying to say. FAQ sites, reciprocal linking, let's see what he says here. Yep, I included reciprocal linking even though I don't recommend it. This list wouldn't be complete without it. That said, if you're going to exchange links with a website, be picky on who you exchange links with. Make sure they're relevant, trustworthy site, the most relevant, trustworthy website you've ever seen in your life. Yeah, so I mean, these are people you know, like you can link to people you know, that's not bad, it really isn't. I have seen algorithms though, like if you're leaving reciprocal reviews and stuff like that, if you leave two reciprocal reviews, sometimes, well, they'll disappear. So you know, you want to be thoughtful about how you do this, but I believe it is okay to do. Reclaiming 404 is a big deal. You don't want errors at all. Scoop it, I don't use scoop it, I probably should. I learned something too, from going through these lists. Social coupons, we don't do that, but I have seen value there. Sponsor venues, that's good. Text interviews, so converting a video interview to text. Video submissions, good. There are sites that you can syndicate out those videos, like there's also stuff like SlideShare that used to be part of LinkedIn.

I'm not sure if they broke away or not, but you know, that's a great way to get information out there, get it indexed. And if it's not indexed, it's not pushing any link juice. Work with niche-specific link builders, write testimonials, there you go. Alumni spotlight, ask customers, association organizations, badges, oh my gosh, this list is long. Blogger reviews, best tools, I'm going to link to this. This is Backlinko's link building strategies, I mean, this is very comprehensive. Case studies, charts, graphs. I mean, he goes on, right? Anything you can think of, so there's some of these kind of master lists of everything you can think of, debunk myths, but it's all about trying to help you think about what is valuable to something else and what you're trying to do is put something out there that people will link to or link to something that's valuable or to be part of the conversation of something that's valuable, right? That's kind of what this is and he goes into all these details, finding influencers on Buzzsumo, so finding influencers, but you've got to build a relationship, finding people to use your images, forum posting, local newspapers, podcasts, I mean, glossary terms, Haro, Haro's awesome, I encourage Haro, hire industry veterans, host people's events, okay, linkable, maps, discounts, press releases. Press releases are great, the only value is when people share them, okay, so just pushing it out there, you've got to have something valuable that people are going to repost and then that's where the value comes in, product comparisons, see, so some of the similar things he goes into a lot of detail. He's got a startup petition, so creating stories, web tools, widgets, Twitter followers, co-branded content, that is really something you should think about, that's a great way to team up and cross-pollinate audiences, webinars, mobile apps, I mean, this just goes on and on. All right, so what I really want to get into, let's see how much time I really have here, not much, maybe I'll do a part three, who

knows, but I do want to get into this. This is by, what do they offer here? This is a great little company, SEO Brain Itric Services, well, they're a digital agency, good job. So I am going to have to actually do this in a part three because there's just so much good stuff in there, and I'll do it back to back here, so I'm going to have this other one and then I'll release it the following week, but for all you that stuck around through all that, this book, which I'll put the link, it's an entrepreneurial link, Ultimate Guide to Link Building by Entrepreneur, like Entrepreneur puts out these books, I really like the books they put out, they get some of the top experts. This says it's by Eric Ward, but I think that there's a lot of other people that contributed to this, Garrett French too, it's called The Ultimate Guide to Link Building and How to Build Backlinks Authority's Credibility for Your Website and Increase Click Traffic and Search Rankings. This book, I let someone borrow it and I need to buy it again because, well, you let people borrow things and, well, they disappear, but I'm going to buy this book, look, I see a used version for six bucks, so I think it's worth significantly more than that, one of the best books I've ever read on link building. I'll put a link to it in the show notes, I encourage you to go check this out. And then next episode, I'm going to go into a really well done roundup that goes into a ton of details on how to do link building. I think you all really appreciate it and, again, this is by another digital agency, but certainly I don't discriminate against anybody doing super high quality work. I also believe in collaboration. I think that there's a ton of business out there. There's a lot of ways that you can work together and help people and iron sharpens iron, so I think that's fantastic. So I'm

going to go into that here next. Until the next time, my name is Matt Bertram, bye-bye for now.