When PR Meets SEO With Jackie Zukerman Delory

This is the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing, your insider guide to the strategies top marketers use to crush the competition. Ready to unlock your business' full potential? Let's get started. Welcome back to the Best FBO Podcast, the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. And I've got a graphic that we've got to remove from there. There we go. I'm your guest host, Jeff Campbell, as you can tell by my graphic overlay skills. Second time hosting the podcast. Matt is off doing business development right now, and he is cooking up some really interesting things for future episodes. So you'll want to join us for those. But today's guest is Jacqueline Zuckerman Delory, founder and CEO of Next On Scene Media, a Boston-based PR and media company, helping entrepreneurs and brands get seen, heard and remembered. Jacqueline launched Next On Scene podcast back in 2014, added the magazine in 2015, and has since built the brand into a full-service agency, offering what she calls 360-degree visibility, strategy, storytelling, amplification, all under one roof. She's interviewed celebrities and reality stars and helped hundreds of business owners land press placements in outlets like USA Today, Fox, and NBC, and created her signature blueprints. Sorry, created her signature blueprints by Jacqueline PR Roadmap System. Jacqueline, welcome to the show. Great to have you with us. Jeff, that was such a nice introduction. Thank you. Oh, you're most welcome. It's great to have you with us today. So you launched Next On Scene podcast back in 2014, before podcasting was really a thing, or not as broad as it is right now, that's for sure. What made you bet on that type of media as part of your business model early in the game? Yeah, it's a great question. I really fell into it. Like, I didn't really know what it was, because radio was still really, radio still exists, as you know, but it was still really big, like, 11, 12 years ago, you know. I feel like it was something new, and I wanted to explore something new and exciting.

And so that's kind of why I kind of took the jump and went for it, and I thought it would allow people to listen on demand. And that's really what sold me on it, because people could listen anytime. So that's why I leaned into it. I went for it. Right. And were you a listener to a lot of shows at the time? Yeah. You just heard about it, and you thought, this is the thing we should try? And how have you liked it as a tool? That's a long time to stay with it. Yeah. I love it as a networking tool. I feel like I've gotten to, I don't know how you feel about this. I'm assuming, you know, you and Matt probably feel the same, but you really get to know people really intimately and get thought about beyond, like, because you get intimate time with people. And I think it's a great way to, like, do introductions and be thought about afterwards with no expectation during it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, my kind of back story actually is I was a listener of this podcast, you know, going back about 12 years, because I was a pretty early adopter when it came to all podcasting. Before it was even called podcasting, I was, you know, just listening and watching that space and found it really interesting. But I found this company through their podcast. I hired them about eight years ago, so I was a client for, like, four or five years. And then I got to know the team. They just seemed like they were having a good time, and the podcast was part of that. And now here I am hosting it. So that, you know, Amazing. If you don't think it works for business, like, it works. Yeah. And, you know, I'm living proof of that. Great story. That's a great story. Love that story. Yeah. It's the long game, though, definitely, right? Because that was, like, a 12-year journey. But it builds business, but it's not like

flipping a switch. You know, you're building the network, like you said, having great conversations and learning, you know, and meeting great people along the way. So, excellent. Let's talk about digital PR and SEO. Those worlds have kind of meshed together a lot, and we're finding that even more and more. Like, a press placement in USA Today isn't just credibility anymore. It's a backlink. It's, you know, a backlink from a very authoritative domain on the Internet. So, how intentionally do you factor in SEO into the press and media placements that you're going after for your clients? Yeah. Well, I, Yeah, I tell every client now that you need to optimize your press placements. Like, you need to put it on your website. You need to put it on your email signatures. Like, anywhere you can link it, you know what I mean? Like, backlink, the better. So, I always say, like, definitely hire an SEO company with the press placements. But I've also seen now with AI, like, when you're searching for companies, when you're pressed, when you're in place online, like, a credible source, it also is now picking up, like, oh, so, you know, Jeff was cited in USA Today or Business Insider. Like, those are, they're now pulling those up as, like, go-to people in the industry. So, it's helping build your credibility even within AI and chat and all those things. So, Yeah, absolutely. You know, AI search channels like GPT or Perplexity and even Google's AI overviews pull heavily from earned media and trusted publications like those. Are clients coming to you asking, how do I show up when someone is asking about AI in my, you know, asking AI for information in my industry? Like, are they looking for that as a, you know, getting AI visibility? Is that a consideration for your clients? So, for me, so, I think clients come to me first to get more eyes on them in terms of, like, public speaking, like, a thought leadership, I would say,

is what they come to me for. And then I tell them once the placements are in place, like, you should hire an SEO company to optimize it to be more searchable. You know, because the TV stations, the magazine outlets, they will put you on their websites, and I'll tell you strategically how to market it in your social media. But I'm not the tech whiz beyond that place. So, I'm like, you need to even maximize the opportunities beyond that. And that's how companies like you can really help. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we love to help get involved with that. And we found, you know, the need to have discussions and conversations with people more in the traditional PR space as well to bring in their skill set to solve some of the client problems that clients bring to us as well. So, here's a thesis I want to get your take on. Now, PR is becoming an effective SEO strategy because AI models trust, you know, the third-party coverage more than anything a brand says about itself. Do you agree with that statement? Or would you have a different take on it? Can you repeat it again? Yeah. So, it's like the concept that PR is, like, kind of the best SEO move that you can do because of how much AI loves that third-party statement. It's like a lot of traditional SEO is, like, what we say about us on our website and our blog and things that we're doing for ourselves to get ranking as opposed to when you go to those third-party, you know, getting placed on, you know, Forbes or USA Today, that's, like, a trusted third-party. And that's more, you know, the idea is that that's more critical to the AI search because of its third-party nature as opposed to us saying, hey, we're here and we're awesome. You know, everybody's going to say good things about themselves, right? The third-party for trusted. For sure. No, I think it's really, so, just correct me if I'm answering it correctly because

it sounds so technical, so I'm just being honest with that, too. So, I think it's really valuable to have PR because automatically it gives you great SEO in AI. It does. It gives you great SEO in AI. It gives you great SEO on Google. But sometimes you even need, well, you 100% need people to go in and make it so it attracts even more people outside of their audiences. And that's where I feel like you guys come in. Does that kind of answer that question? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like, the way we would look at it is that there's foundational pieces that you want to have your information architecture correct, you know, and your kind of information entities correct. Not, you know, it used to be mostly just about your own website and your backlinks coming to your site. But now it's, like, your information across a variety of channels, including your website and primarily your website, but also other places where people might be talking about things. Like, you know, the LLMs are looking for original, authentic, accurate, up-to-date information. So, they're going to places like Reddit, you know, scraping Reddit for, because it's fresh conversation. It's fresh, authentic conversation, generally speaking. Although, as people try and game Reddit more, maybe the authenticity factor is going to get pushed down a bit because everybody's always trying to, you know, game the system to get that exposure. But we find it's, yeah, you know, third-party articles, backlinks, and all that work really well when your core information on your website is structured correctly and your data is marked up correctly. But I would even, just to follow up with that thought, though, Jeff, like, I think for your name in print, like, for being on a credible company, any website, like, does incredible opportunities for your personal brand, you know, like, for SEO purposes. So, like, yeah, I just wanted to share that, too. I think that that's valuable as well, so. Yeah, it does, credibility. But then when you go

down to kind of the machine level, like, Matt even had an issue with, because there are, you know, it's a pretty common name. There are multiple Matt Bertrams out there, and there are even some who are in a space that's, you know, not directly, you know, kind of competing with what he does, but very adjacent. And it would be easy for, you know, the machines need a lot of, they need specific literal information to interpret, right? And so, you know, it's a question of, like, are we going with Matt Bertram or Matthew Bertram, and, like, how do we, how do we differentiate him from those other ones who are some, you know, kind of public-facing figures out there as well? And, you know, Great point. Yeah, you have to have a really uncommon name to be the only person with your name. Yeah, really, really good point. You know, so that's, you know, that's where that structural stuff can come in to, like, help just really spell it out for the machines. Like, who are we talking about when we talk about this name? So that, and then that goes in with the, you know, the third-party exposure and the PR. It's, like, but are the machines understanding the entity correctly of, like, is it this Matt Bertram versus that Matt Bertram type of thing? So anyways, yeah. Yeah, thanks. Getting a little nerdy in the reads there, as I tend to do. But so when a client, so let's talk about podcasting in terms of, like, a tool for getting that exposure. When a client gets featured in a podcast or you interview them in a podcast, what do you do with that content afterwards to kind of get the most value out of it? Because that's a starting point, right? Great question. Because my company is filled with a lot of content. Like, that's just, I'm sure you guys in your own way to experience that. So what we do is we promote

, we break them up because, obviously, podcasts are long. So how do you splice up the content, create them into content nuggets, and repurpose them over time? So we take episodes, we splice them, we repurpose them in the social media feeds, we repurpose them in, like, email blasts. Like, we've kind of done a little bit of testing. And then what I've done in the past, I don't do as much now, is I really utilize Facebook groups. And I used to reshare my content there, too, because there are a lot of niche people that are looking for specific things to listen to. So those are things I had done in the past. I've had blogs. I definitely have had blogs where people can click and read and listen to them there on my website. And then optimizing YouTube. YouTube is so huge for, you know, visual and audio avenues. Yeah, absolutely. And the way we, you know, from our SEO perspective, we refer to it as the second biggest search engine in the world. Exactly, exactly. Which it is, yeah. But that's a really interesting take about, you know, like, specific Facebook groups, because you've got, you know, a self-selected audience that's interested in a particular topic there. So that's a really great idea. And even, like, just to follow up on that thought, like, LinkedIn has groups, too, that's great for that, too. You know, like, I used to do that when my podcast was my sole thing. Like, that's where I put a lot of my time into. Because even though people don't necessarily click and like and comment on things, they're watching. You know what I'm saying? So I think that there's a lot of value to be had there. Yeah. Like, as opposed to just, like, kind of spraying it everywhere and saying, here's our information. You've already got, like, a pre-selected, you know, self-identified audience of people with a particular topical interest. So if you're a match for that, yeah, that's brilliant for sure. Let's talk about the flip side of

visibility. So when a client comes to you with, you know, a negative article that's been published or so, you know, a pile of bad reviews that's sitting on page one of Google, do you have a particular kind of approach or playbook for doing damage control for those? Such a great question. This happened to one of my clients not too long ago. My first, this is maybe your expertise, but I'm speaking from a publicist standpoint. So I always say to first, you can't, I'm sure you guys know, like, you can't remove a Google review if it's bad. Like, it takes a long time to do that. So I'm always, like, reach out to all your other clients you love, like, know and trust and have them start reviewing you so it pushes the crap out of that, you know, the bad review down to the bottom. I always say, like, that's a great way to start doing that. Um, and then I've totally had clients in the past that have been on television, got so much attention and kind of, um, decided that it wasn't fit for them anymore. They were very intimidated by that. And to just kind of talk about a two-folded area of what you're saying, I think that sometimes there's a lot of judgment that comes with growth and visibility. And so I feel like it's important to build confidence and I'm spiritual, work on your spirituality. And I think that really allows you to show up more confidently and translate more positive opportunities to yourself. Yeah. Having that skill of, of being able to, to kind of face this storm or even like, what do people think about me if I put myself out there publicly is going to be really intimidating for a lot of people. But, um, yeah, on, on the, on the negative, on the recovering from negative publicity, like with Google reviews, we actually had somebody who gave us a negative review and got very personal about it and started like posting screenshots of emails. You said

this and you said, and it was crazy. And we just pointed it out to Google and they're like, yeah, that's not happening. Like, so they, they removed it right away because this person was completely, well, that's some things. Yeah. So it can be done, but yeah, it's not just a regular bad review. It's when people are like, get, get, you know, crossing the line in terms of what they're, they're sharing. But I've also seen it go the other way where, um, you know, just reaching out to the disgruntled, uh, customer and saying, Hey, how can we fix this? And have we seen situations where like a one-star turned into a five-star review on Google because they had a legit problem with something that happened. It was a different company I was working for, but, uh, you know, we turned it around and that's, that's not always easy to do, but it can happen. So ways to, yeah. And I just want to follow up on your, on your twofolded question. Cause you said something of like bad articles that come out or whatever. And I think that that's common, especially in like, I don't know, celebrity PR, like you think about the Coldplay concert. Like you think about things that have just happened that you just can't, like, it's such a short term thing. If you think about it in the big scheme of things that it's almost like you need to not let it consume your own day-to-day content and focus on other positive things that you or your company can offer. You can't take away what happened, but you can switch the narrative. So like, they know that you're not hyper-focused on it. Does that make any sense? So I would say, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. It's like, yeah, we, you don't want to spend a long time spinning in that cycle of, of, of engaging with the negativity. Uh, I think, you know, take the high road, answer it once, and then we're moving on if, if it even merits an answer.

So, so let's, let's go back to, um, the concepts here with, uh, the PR and SEO kind of worlds overlapping. Should PR agencies and SEO agencies, uh, find ways to collaborate more and where do you see opportunities, uh, for working together? Yeah. I mean, I love, I, I work with a few SEO companies over the years. So I know a lot of value of like, I'm not good with back. Personally, I'm not good with backend website stuff. Like any of the things to optimize the backend of how to hyperlink things to make them maximize more audiences. So I always say like, I can do the front end and I can get more eyes on you from the front end, but to really double down and grow, you need an SEO company to really optimize it long term. Cause my social meat, like my social media that I strategize with in the PR stuff can come off short lived. If it's not remarketed and people need to be educated. So like clients have stayed on with me for a long time. Like we know how to repurpose the content and all those things. If you're with a PR company for a short term period of time, even though those articles live on those TV news sites forever, if you're not remarketing it or it's not hyperlinked on your website, it's lost, lost money, lost time, all the things. Right. So I'm always like an SEO company can help that front end be more regular, consistent. Does that make any sense? Yeah, absolutely. No, it's some of this content stuff is playing the long game and, you know, some content is ephemeral and it's down the river and just we're done with it. And the other of it will have, you know, kind of evergreen value, like depending on what the topic is being discussed at its current events, maybe it's not so relevant a year from now, but there are some things that we can talk about. It will absolutely be relevant and that there will

be, you know, that link will come through three, four years later. And that's, you know, it's like podcasting. Oh, we did a podcast. Did we get new customers next month? Well, no, but maybe you got one like two years from now, but you didn't even have the attribution to know. And that, you know, that's one thing that we really like to do is, you know, can we find a way to get attribution and measurement even over the long haul, right, of the investment that we made. But it's also, to some extent, just understanding that, you know, in the world of search, you know, the machine runs on content. And so having a steady flow, which podcasting is a great way to create that steady flow is, you know, it has value even if you can't prove the value. You should try to prove the value, but even if you can't, like we just trust that it's a good thing to be creating valuable content for people. I just see, but I don't know if you have like thoughts on this too, but even just the stamp of having like NBC on your website, like NBC Fox, like I think about all the places I've done over the years. Like you, even if the article isn't relevant, it's about how you're marketing the placements that you got, right? Like, it's like, how can you like subtly say, like, it could have been on something, like you said, like a current event that's not relevant anymore, but it's still a stamp on your brand that gives you the credibility to get more people know that you've been placed there, you know? So I think it's a two-folded. Yeah, absolutely. You're making me think of things that I've engaged with in the past. Like they had, you know, sort of audience outreach things where they were looking for questions for interviews on CNN. You know, it was kind of cool. I sent in a question and it was an author of a book that I had read and

they used my question and they asked him the question and they put my name. This question came in from Jeff Campbell and, you know, that was just kind of a cool experience, but it's like, hey, CNN used my question. And so I, you know, in a very tiny way, my content's been featured on CNN, right? But they wanted to engage that way. So it's amazing, though. It's legit. Yeah, it's cool. Like that you can have those, you know, for that as an experience. And that was like, you know, probably like 15 years ago when that happened. I was like, wow, that's so cool that, you know, the world was getting to that place where we can, you know, because before you could not reach up to a big media channel like that and get anything on there at all. Like it just was out of reach, right? So, yeah, the world has shifted. I'd like to, okay, so you've interviewed celebrities and reality stars. What did promoting famous people teach you about promoting less famous people? Was there something from their world that kind of became a lesson about how they went about things? What an interesting question. Did they teach me anything? So repeat the second part of the question. Yeah. So they're automatically, you know, if somebody's a public figure, they probably have a machine around them to help them with their PR and their publicity and how they get the message out there or whatever. Did you like pick up any tips from them as, you know, they were like, oh, that's a good, I hadn't thought of doing that before. Or did you pretty much have your game on as their level already? I think I just, like, I've always, so I think I just talk to them like normal people. I never treat anyone different. And so I haven't really, I'm being honest with you. Like I think that that's why I've gotten the interviews I've gotten because they're very impressed with, like, that I'm not starstruck, that I'm just

a genuine, like, want to have a conversation with you. So I really see everybody is the same, no matter what the status is. I think people that are small businesses that have come on just don't have the exposure or have ever been on shows before. So they're definitely way more intimidated. You know, like, I think the only thing I've experienced at the really high level is we have this limited time frame. This is the amount of time I have. You know, like, it's very, like, I'm like, don't worry, we'll be on time. Like, it's all good. Like, and they're very impressed by that, you know? So I think that that's the only thing that I've seen, that they're, like, just very regimented in terms of how much time they can give you, you know? So, but some aren't like that. Some aren't. Show up ready and use your time well, I guess, is the takeaway from that one. Yeah, for sure. So Blueprints by Jacqueline. What, you know, tell me a little bit about what goes into your visibility roadmap or how you think about that when you're building that roadmap for somebody? Yeah. So I, clients come to me when they want to get more publicity, be on TV, be in magazines. So I look at all of their marketing, like, front-end marketing. So their website messaging, their visuals, their photo and video content, any partnerships they've done, have they built their personal brand, any, like, headshots they have. Like, I look for anything that's outdated that doesn't depict their bigger goals. And we create a message and visuals to get them to the end goal as, like, the thought leader in their space, as the go-to person they want to be. Because for me, I truly feel that you can change careers any day, but you're always your personal brand. Like, you can continue to evolve, but you're still Jeff. You know what I mean? Like, so people always know you as Jeff Campbell and people always know me as Jacqueline. But, like,

I can have multiple careers in my life. So I think that that's what I love to hone in on. I'm, like, keeping the consistency of your personal brand where your heart lives, you know? So. Yeah. Love it. Love that. You know, that kind of authenticity in the increasingly, you know, flooded with AI content world. I think there's a real, you know, the value of that personal brand of that, you know, backed by authenticity, not, like, just a facade, but, you know, like, hey, here's a real me. Here's what you get. I think that's refreshing to a lot of people. They really engage with that. For sure. And so you try to bring that out for your clients, like, help them to find what their voice is or their kind of how to get across, like, who they really are for their audience. So I, and this is what I'm continuing to teach people, like, the most vulnerable things about your life, you don't have to share everything, but that's where people connect. And so that is something that AI can never take from you. So, like, I love AI. Like, I think it simplifies so many things, but the human connection, it will never replace, you know, like, emotions. And that's really what I teach people to get more confident sharing through video, through photos, through how they're communicating it to the world. Like, that's what I love to do. So that's how I do it. So I help direct and create and produce all those sort of things. So. Yeah. Amazing. You know, I always say that, you know, I'm trying to think about it, like, what do humans have that AI doesn't have? Because AI is so impressive. It can do so much. It can do it really quickly. And the thing that AI doesn't have and will never really have is stories from the trenches. Like, it just hasn't had a human experience, right? It could probably be time to make stuff up. God help us that that ever happens. We don't

want that. But, you know, stories from the trenches, like real human experience is what is, I think, interesting and engaging a lot of the time to people. In terms of approaching, you know, when individuals are pitching themselves to media, do you see any kind of mistakes or kind of errors in thinking that people make when they're first trying to start that process? Great question. I love this question. So this is where people use too much AI. And this is why it doesn't translate. This is where, like, I think AI is great for a baseline. For a baseline, like, template, like, create a press release for me, here's what I'm thinking, yada, yada, yada. If you don't know anything about what the reporter's reporting on, if you don't know anything personal about them, they're not going to read your email. They're going to put it in the trash. So, like, I think this is where the human connection comes in. Like, you need to do your research on who the reporters, editors, and journalists are. Like, spend time engaging in their content for a little while. Like, really spend time that you care that you're standing out to them. Because I think they get, well, I know, they get pitched thousands of emails a day. So, like, if you're not standing out in the weeds authentically, like, it's not being paid attention to. Yeah. That just reminds me, there's a guy, I'm based out of Canada. There's a guy up here who is a music journalist, and he goes by the handle Nardwar, the human serviette, which is, serviette in Canada is a napkin, basically. Like, he's like the human napkin. Funny name, but his whole thing, and he is very well respected in the music industry, especially with a lot of rap artists, because he will get the deepest, most, you know, the deepest level of research that you could possibly do. Like, he'll find out who your best friend was in grade six, and, like, ask you about it in the interview. And people

are always, their jaws just hitting the floor, because he's always, like, gone back and found out, you know, talked to their mom or something like that, and found out, like, the most deepest research that nobody could imagine, and built a whole thing on that. And as a result, this guy is, like, beloved in the music community, because everybody's just, like, this guy cares about it. And then he also goes and finds gifts. He's like, here's the first original LP you guys issued in, like, 1989, and it's, you know, he'll give it to them as a gift, you know, it's like some obscure piece of, like, memorabilia that has a gift. That's amazing. That's really impressive. It's like, I'll tell you a lot of work that goes into that. There's definitely a lot of work that goes into that. But it's, like, the guy's built his whole career based on, like, deep research, caring more than anybody has ever cared about, like, an interview before, basically. And it's just, you reminded me of that. It's kind of wild, actually. Thanks for sharing that. That's really, but that's, like, a great example of how to stand out to people. And it absolutely worked. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And it was funny because he has a very, you know, he wears, like, kind of a funny hat and, like, plaid pants and stuff. He's got a whole shtick to it. And people used to make fun of him, like, get out of here, you know, like, dismiss him at the beginning. There's even some bands who, like, treated him really badly. But over time, as people realized, wow, this guy is, like, a true fan of the genre and has the background and the research, they just came to love, you know, like, Snoop Dogg and, like, different people like that. I just love the guy because of how much he cares about the subject matter. Anyway, it's good. Going on a tangent about old network there. But I'll send you, like, it's really worth

a look if you haven't seen his content. Okay, so let's talk now about, you've got a magazine as part of your mix. We really, you know, we got podcasting, we got AI search and PR and all this, but you're also still doing a magazine. How does that fit into your business? So when I started, I'm from New York originally and now I live in Boston. But when I started here in Mass with PR, like, I had no connections. So I was a New Yorker that relocated. I had no connections. And I was, like, I'm meeting so many small businesses that have great stories. Like, how can I help them? And I went to Canva and I, you know, this was, like, 2014. I went on Canva and I made a magazine. And it was originally for people that were just on my podcast, the stories I was sharing. And it absolutely, like, outgrew my podcast guests. It went international. And I was, like, wow, like, it kind of, like, outgrew me. And so it was just my mom and I that put it together for a long time. And then I decided to go down to once a year because it was a huge project. So now I have a graphic designer and I, we just continue to grow. It's really exciting. So. But you still do, like, a paper print version of this magazine? Yeah, totally do. Yeah. And, like, who do you send it to? Like, how does this get distributed? And how do you decide that? Great question. So I think the reason I've survived as long as I have is because I print on demand. I print for events that I do for launch events. I have subscribers, but it's more on demand, so I don't have to be obligated to print thousands of copies. So I think that that's another reason cost-wise that it's helped me a lot over the years. It really, like, for me, it's just been a passion project. Like, I started with small businesses, then went

to celebrities launching business ventures they were doing or new businesses they were launching. And it's just become a really, like, luxury. Like, my goal is to be in private jets because I think that's the type of caliber of people that will actually want the tangible, glossy magazine with entrepreneurship articles, you know? So that's, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it also kind of anchors you in that traditional world of media that we've, a lot of us maybe think, oh, the world has moved beyond that, but it's still a thing. People will pick up a magazine from time to time. But it also, it just gives you that association with kind of a past age of media that's maybe a little bit nostalgic or something that people have that, you know, we've all had that experience at some point in the past, picking up and just leaking through a magazine. And now you're, you're kind of keeping that alive and connected to it. So it's kind of a cool legacy thing there too. Yeah. Well, I think my whole, the only reason I don't even remember originally I started right. Cause I wanted to help the small business, like share their messages who didn't have contacts in media. So originally started there. And then I was like, this doesn't feel sustainable long-term. Like what's the real goal with this? So my goal really was to be a forced read in airplanes for print, because that's the only place people read tangible magazines. So that's why for so long, at least from a print side, like that's where I want to be because I can naturally like can see that not being huge overheads. And it's more like, it's more containable, you know? So I have a ton of digital reading. That's where most of my readership is. But for the people that want the physical copies, that's how I can keep it living without feeling like I'm overextending myself. Yeah. And I mean, if it's on planes, like people would leave it on there probably like

for the next person. Exactly. And do you try to tie it into your like digital at all with like QR codes or is there any kind of... Oh, totally. So are you measuring what comes from the magazine in any way? I should. I just, because I just started originally as a passion project, being completely honest here, like I probably should to this day. Like I create Bitly links and stuff. Like that's the probably the most trackable thing I've done over the years. But outside of that, like it's just been a passion project. It's been a great networking tool for me over the years. Like between that and the podcast, it's really how I grew my network to where I'm at today. So. Awesome. Yeah. I love it. And I think it's really interesting to be maintaining some kind of legacy media like that in a way, but, you know, trying to find a way to fit it in, in the modern world that would still be applicable. Thank you. Cool. Very cool. So what's a PR or visibility trend that everybody's kind of chasing after right now that you think is maybe overhyped or a waste of time? Is there anything like that? I mean, I think they work. It's just short-lived, right? You look on all the TikTok trends, right? TikTok trends, everybody from like a small individual, you know, teenager, you know, teenagers to celebrities that have their own businesses, Fortune 500 companies, they're all getting on these trends. And I think that it's allowing people to feel like they're part of something, no matter what your age is, no matter what you look like. I think that that's the beauty of that. I think the one thing though, is it is really short-lived. So like, I think it's good for a period of time, but that's all that it's good for. Do you know what I'm saying? So I would say like trend-wise, like I think the TikTok trends are a great, really fun way to engage with a massive audience of

all different types of people. But it's going to be gone by tomorrow. Kind of thing like, hop on that bandwagon, but it's a short ride basically. Yeah. But you got to be on while it's hot. You know what I mean? Like that's the thing. If you miss it and it's two days later, it is too late because there's a new trend that's out, so to be in time with that is important. Respond quickly. Absolutely. So looking forward, what is, kind of what's next for you? What's your next move? What's on your horizon? What are you thinking about? So I'm actually creating a newsroom, so a digital newsroom. So I'm taking, I'm doing more editorial articles online now regularly. That's kind of what I'm focusing on because I've done the magazine. I put my digital magazines online, but I think there's so much happening more regularly now. So I want to create like top 10 businesses to, you know, be inspired by this season or business launches because next on scene is like what's next, right? So I want to hyper focus on like what is next that you should know about in the entrepreneurial space and small business space. Because I feel like there's nothing out there right now that exists with that. So, yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. And if people want to find out more about your offering and what you do, where should they go online? Yeah. Thank you, Jeff. So next on scene.com is a great place to access. We're really most active on Instagram. So next on scene or Jackie's up on Instagram, but we're on all the outlets, but I would say Instagram is my favorite platform. So if you reach out there, I probably will be responsive. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. It's been really fascinating interview. And I'm definitely going to follow you online. If you're looking for digital marketing services or SEO, or you want to show up at AI search, check out EWR digital.com. That's

the sponsor of our show and the founder of our show. So once again, Jacqueline, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you, Jeff. Me too. Great interviewer. Really appreciated it. Oh, thank you so much. I enjoyed myself. We'll see you online. Take care. You too. Bye. Bye. Bye.