How much should you spend on SEM (Pay Per Click Vs. SEO) - Unknown Secrets of SEO E-Webstyle Number 67

Hi, and welcome to the Unknown Secrets of SEO podcast. What's up, everybody? Welcome back. Welcome to Houston, Texas. This is the Unknown Secrets of SEO. We're going to have a great time today. I think that clock's fast. I think we're actually starting on time today. Oh, we're three minutes behind. We're three minutes behind. 9.15 Central Standard Time. For those of you listening to this podcast, you can actually catch the video of us recording it live at 9.15 Central Standard Time on Friday mornings. This is podcast number 67. You're listening to the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. We got some really cool stuff today. We'll start off with what we did last time. Right off the tip of our tongue, we had no idea. Contextual advertising. There we go. I was like contextual advertising. That sounds good. You can buy contextual advertising from us. As soon as we figure out what it is. Yeah, for real. Actually, so the last podcast, which was podcast 66, we talked about what's called contextual linking. It's really the process of, and Paul gave a great example, where maybe your company's name has FIFA in it or something, and because the World Cup was just happening, everyone was talking about FIFA, and that's contextually relevant. Google, obviously, in this case, the robots are getting it slightly wrong, but could help you immensely. So that's kind of an example of also, well, Paul also mentioned, as the World Cup disappears for the next four years, the value of that contextual linking is going to disappear off of the face of the earth. Also, that's just a good example, because what we're really talking about is, are people out there talking about you, are people out there doing, like, even right now. Are they tweeting, because they're tweeting, Facebook, and FIFA, FIFA, or your FIFA company, or whatever. But they took down the Twitter APIs. Oh, they did? Yeah, the programming interfaces. Like, they didn't take them down, they slowed them down immensely. Even, I used TweetDeck in order to kind

of manage tweets and follow different things, and you know, every day I signed in. During the World Cup, they said, Twitter is experiencing delays, probably because of the World Cup. Because during the World Cup, which, by the way, is the largest sporting event on the planet, people were tweeting, and, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot of people in the world. Yeah, constantly. And I think people, I was just seeing Facebook going like crazy, I don't tweet as much as I probably should. Well, we were watching on Univision, right? Yeah. Univision.com. Oh, and they have it. And they had Facebook right there, like. The Facebook roll going. And it would scroll like 30. Yeah. It was like, bang, bang, bang, bang. Dude, I can't read that fast. And I don't read Spanish, so. Well, and I, it was kind of weird, though, because I can't, I wouldn't want to want to, in Facebook, I wouldn't want on my wall what I'm talking about, you know, what I'm thinking about, about the game, right? Because your wall is more like, what am I doing now? Okay, I'm about to watch the World Cup. But, wow, that goal was amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so somebody comes back to your wall. I think those are like conversational posts. There's more like tweets. Yeah. Which even then is marginal, but they're like, yeah, they should almost have been independent maybe in discussion groups, I don't know. I don't know how Facebook handled it. I didn't put a comment, so I don't know what it showed up on our wall, so. Did I mention Facebook? I just said Facebook, didn't I? Yeah. Yeah. You can find us on Facebook. Yeah. All you have to do is go to, I love it when people say this, say, you can find us on the Facebook. And the Google. And the Google. So, to find us, just go to facebook.com slash eWebStyle. You can also follow us on Twitter, twitter.com slash eWebStyle. And I did tell you that we broadcast

live on Fridays at 9.15 Central Standard Time. I did not tell you how to find us. The easiest way to find us is to go to our website. Just go to eWebStyle or e-WebStyle.com slash Ustream. And that's Ustream with the letter U. U. And that's how you find us. That'll forward us to, forward you, because you're typing it to us on Ustream. And you would be seeing us live now. And I'm moving my hands frantically. And I stopped. So, we'd like to cover a little bit of news. What's in the news today? Well, you know, it's always Apple. I don't know. I think it's like the, speaking of contextual, all of this conversation about the iPhone and the disaster that the iPhone is. By the way, go get an Evo. My buddy called me the other day. He's switching from the iPhone 3G to an Evo. Really? Yes. I mean, who? Well, he's going to save like $100 also. And he's going to get off of the AT&T shitty-ass network. Yeah, because my bill is like $175 a month. And I can get the Evo for $69.99. So, he's like, it's a no-brainer. $69.99? Well, plus the $10 for 4G. Oh, per month. Okay. I was thinking like, I paid $200 for that phone. It's a great phone. And you just got to go out and Google on YouTube. Don't Google. Go to YouTube, also owned by Google. Go to YouTube and type in iPhone Evo and look for little tiny squat cartoon characters that have been viewed over 5 million times. It's hilarious. And I guess that wouldn't make any sense for people in other countries because I think they get like a whole different list of phones. Oh, yeah. They can have some choice. They actually have some choices. Because they're probably looking at us like, we've had that phone for like a year. Yeah. That phone, that new phone you have is a piece of crap. Like, y'all have to do it because I feel like we get stuff like in other

countries. I use that as a coaster. Yeah, other countries get stuff like way before we do a lot of times. Yeah, there are definitely other countries that have been using phones to advantage for a lot longer than us, which is, you know, it's hard for us to accept as Americans. And it's true. So, basically, iPhones in the news, contextually, you know, all these articles don't actually link to iPhone necessarily or link to Apple, but that would be a great example of contextually. So, it's going to keep giving value to Apple. Okay, so maybe you want to put an article, maybe you do like cell phone repair company, and you want to write an article on your blog about repairing the dysfunctional iPhone. iPhone 4, there you go. Because the announcement that I was going to talk about is it looks like there was some discussion of iPhone doing a recall. And it looked like they're not going to, yeah, can you imagine? And they're not going to do a recall. That would be it. What Steve Jobs said in a brief email was that God should recall the human hand. Really? No. And I was like, whoo, all right. I'm going to brush over that one. That's it. That was me. It makes sense, though. It does. It does. If the human hand doesn't work with the iPhone, there's got to be a recall. And I mean, like, man, somewhere, they should have really caught this. Like, oh, wait, if you hold the phone, it doesn't work. Somebody should have caught that. Yeah. Yeah, there's some engineer. As soon as you pick it up, the phone doesn't work. Hey, but it's iPhone 4. There's some engineer who lost an iPhone 4. Who is also now dead. He's had his hands recalled. Yeah. Google, actually, their profits came out today or yesterday. I think it was today. Maybe it was this morning. And their profits are up. They didn't meet targets. And the reason they didn't meet targets is because they hired 1,200 people. How many

companies in this economy are hiring 1,200 people? What's up, Google? Yeah. So the hiring costs have kind of waylaid their profits. Podcast video. Okay. So inspired by the video that I told you you should go get, the iPhone Evo video, we went out and we converted a portion of our podcast into a cartoon thing, text-to-movie thing. It's hilarious. It actually came off really good. But, Paul, the bird house on your head is awesome. The flap on the back of your pants. Yeah, the butt flap. The butt flap is also good. And I have to say, I'm styling with my Princess Lea ears. Yeah. That was very cool. Is it up? Did you post it? It is up. So you can find that on our Facebook, facebook.com slash ewebstyle. And you can also find it on our YouTube. The easiest way to get to the YouTube is to go to e-webstyle.com slash YouTube. In that case, you spell out U as in Y-O-U. So check it out. It's just something that's a little funny we put out there. And, hey, Darren, this is for you. I'm going to challenge you to make one better. Because I know, I know that he will sit there and be like, oh, I'm going to kill this. Oh, yeah. That's crap. That's just crap. All right. That's all I got for news. But I do, unless you wanted to start and break off for an exciting, we have a review. Okay, yeah, go ahead. We need, like, some sort of alarm. Let's go ahead with the review. We have a review. All right. This one is for iHardcore. I haven't actually read this whole thing. Okay. Hopefully it doesn't get too hardcore. If you listen from the beginning, you can see these guys grow in sophistication, understand the running jokes, and gain their perspective. Refreshingly honest. In fact, the best part is when they say, hmm, I don't know. Let's find out. We say that? We got to start editing or something. Which gives you the sense that you are

personally along for the ride on the learning curve. Also, I find myself laughing out loud in the car and using my voice memo feature to capture some of the suggestions. So, this is good that he's listening to it in the car because we are the Red Bull of SEO podcasts. That's right. So, you can stay awake while you're in your car. And it's Corey. Oh, my God. It's Corey. Thank you, Corey. Yeah. Yeah. Malchewski. Malchewski. We'll say Malchewski. There we go. And we are sorry for any butchering. Yeah. That's what's up, Corey. That's what's up, hardcore. That's what's up. I hardcore. I like hardcore business. Of course. I'm going to call you hardcore. That's cool, man. Thanks. I think that's, we appreciate that's an honest review. Unlike some people, we don't, you know, fudge our reviews. We just ask people to give them honest. And, hey, we are world-class SEO. And we're on this journey together. We're learning. You're learning. So, it's awesome. Well, and it, you know, it absolutely has to be a journey. Yeah. Because, you know, we mentioned one time we were talking about Google local or Google places or Google local sponsored ads. And we made the point, you know, there are other podcasts that we actually learned from. Yeah. But they're no longer adding episodes. And so, you know, you're not going to find a lot of the new information. This is an evergreen industry because Google's always changing. And, you know, as people manipulate more, Google changes. And then as things, you know, contextual, we would have never thought about contextual a number of years ago. And now it's actually something that we're talking about. So, it's a journey. We're on it with you. Thank you very much, Corey. Corey, this is a, we really appreciate it. And it's because of you guys that we're the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. And if you want, Corey, send us to your website. Send us an email. You can send us an email. Anyone can send us an email. Yes.

At podcast at e-webstyle.com. And we answer our emails. We follow up. We try and get emails on air whenever we can. And, wow, we just, it's speciousness. That's awesome. Thank you very much. So, what's all the menu for today? I don't know. Let's go find out. Let's go find out. Hold on. Pause. We must go do some research. We have a lack of viewer or listener emails. Which, by the way, I just gave out the email. Go ahead and give us some of your questions. We love your questions. Even Darren, go ahead and send us another one. Because, wait, he did. Oh, he did. Dang it. We've got to print that one out. I printed it out. Sorry, Darren. We'll get to you next time, dude. Sorry, boss. I printed it out. But today, we're going to discuss something that we haven't talked about in, I'm going to say, at least a year. Mm-hmm. And I'm going to say, at least a year. Wait. Wait. So, are you telling me there's something that we talked about a year ago? Yeah. And it's still relevant? And it's still, yeah. Don't ask me how. Wow. Wow. I'm looking forward to this. I thought it was a fad, you know, this whole internet thing. So, we're going to talk about search engine optimization, duh, and we're also going to talk about pay-per-click advertising. So, let me give a little bit of intro, if I could, about this. Knock it out. So, we've put together a number of quotes this last week, and all of these quotes have included pay-per-click and organic, or search engine optimization. Why? Man, if we're an SEO podcast, why are we putting together PPC for people? That's a great question, which you're going to answer. So, there's a reason, right? And what we also noticed, and this is why we thought it was so important we should bring it up in the podcast, is typically the budget related to, at least for us, this may not be true for other companies, but the budget

related to pay-per-click is larger than the budget related to search engine optimization. And so, if it has that much weight in these quotes and proposals that we're putting out there, we need to make sure that we're talking about it and expressing that. So, you guys, you know, you're not just focused on SEO. And I know the one-off companies out there who don't, as part of the reason people go to SEO and try and work on SEO, is because you have to really spend money. I mean, we spoke, you know, one of the things that we said about pay-per-click is, whatever you do, do it in an organized fashion. Yes. Don't just throw money on the wall and hope something sticks, right? And that's why I think a lot of our listeners are probably listening to us, because they don't want to just throw some money at pay-per-click. And the orchestrated effort that they can do that doesn't cost anything out of pocket, costs a lot of time, which is why we recommend that you use an SEO expert such as us, but it doesn't cost anything out of pocket, is organic search engine optimization. So, we think probably a lot of our listeners are focused on that. But don't forget about the value of pay-per-click. You know, when we look at it from a perspective of our clients, the first thing we think is, we want to prove, a lot of clients are skeptical, and a lot of them are skeptical, and they fall in really two categories. The ones who just don't know technology at all. The ones who are like, really? The Yellow Pages are dying? I didn't know that. I haven't looked at a Yellow Pages in a year, so I just assumed they were still two volumes this big. So, that would be the first one. The other is somebody who's been actually burnt. Okay. And we never posted on our Facebook, this is a running offer, that up to $250, if you got burnt somewhere else, we'll take that off

of our setup fee. Just let us know, show us the documentation, let us know, and we'll actually probably put a white paper together based on that, and we'll give you a discount. Because we really, you know, there are really genuine and good SEO companies out there. We are one of them. And so, that's the second category that they got burnt. And I don't know. I was following you too, and I was like, you're just going to stop. Is that it? Like, is that all? Come on, man. So, there are two reasons that people are very skeptical about SEO. Oh, that's exactly where it was. So, it's important for us also to include pay-per-click because it has instant results, right? They're just instant. You can start a pay-per-click campaign today, and tomorrow you can look and see how many clicks came in because of that pay-per-click campaign. And so, that's part of it if we've got a skeptical client. The other is, we do believe that there's value. I mean, we all know the Google Golden Triangle, and if you don't, we have a podcast. Google the phrase, Google Golden Triangle. Well, don't Google that. Go into our podcast and type in Google Golden Triangle, and you'll find a podcast about it. Yeah, we posted it, I think, a while back. Yeah, and if you can't find it on our website, Google it. You'll find it. It's out there. But it talks about 80% of searches are organic. And so, there's a lot of value in organic. In fact, that's where most of the value is. And what we say is, is if a user can see your website in the sponsored ads and in the organic, it starts moving in the direction of branding. It really starts reliability and credibility. It generates a lot of credibility when you're like, oh, wow, these guys are so good, is the assumption that they're over here and they're over here. And really, the good ones are us, because we're putting you there and over there. But the assumption

is that the company is actually that good and spending that effort. So, those are kind of some of the reasons we include it in quotes. And now, Paul is going to take it away and talk about. Well, I'm going to kind of dovetail off what you said. The first topic I want to talk about is, you know, I'm going like, this is, let's say, SEO versus PPC. The first topic is the speed of results, right? With pay-per-click advertising, you can get results today. I tell people, hey, if you, you know, you sign up on a PPC account before 12 o'clock, you can be on the first, you know, you can be on the first page of Google by like 8 p.m. that night. It only takes a few hours. So, you can get immediate results. You can test keywords a lot faster than you can with SEO. SEO takes time. You know, if you're considering search engine optimization and the company that you contacted didn't tell you, hey, this is going to take time, then you need to find another company because we'll tell anyone up front, you need to be willing to invest money and time into this. You need to be willing to invest money into it without getting a return for a while. For a while, yeah. Because, you know, it's not, you're not going to be on the first page of the natural listings for a competitive keyword tomorrow or next month. So, take that into account. It's not good or bad, but just that's how it is. The thing we do tell our clients is give us six months and you'll never leave, right? Because there are some campaigns and typically they're already hooked by two or three months because we give them a monthly, a full color monthly report talking about where are their keywords and showing them, demonstrating how their keywords are moving up towards the first position. But it takes around, you know, depending on the competitiveness, around six, excuse me, six months. And so, the speed

of results is something to take into account. If you need business tomorrow, we've said this a million times, then you want to go with pay-per-click. You have a limited budget, you can't do both. You know, you need business tomorrow, you want to stick with pay-per-click. If you're in this for the long haul and you're willing to invest your time and money over time, I've repeated myself, then you want to go with SEO. I mean, but, you know, the real truth is you need to do them both. Yeah. You really need to do them both. And as we're growing as a company and our clients' needs grow and change, we're starting to tell them, hey, you need to do both. And we talk up front and we say, okay, here's the pay-per-click campaign that we're recommending. Here's the SEO campaign that we're recommending. Once we start getting the SEO up into the first page, we can start playing games. We're going to start reducing pay-per-click budget, potentially, and what we ultimately find out is that that's not worth it. That any exposure is great exposure. It's kind of like what Chuck said about, you know, being on Facebook and Twitter. If they're not going to find you on your website, they're going to find you somewhere. So if they're not going to find you organically, they're going to find you. I spoke to a client yesterday, potential client yesterday, who did not know that the right side was sponsored. Wow. Right? This dude been under a rock? You met him. He's a nice guy. He's not a dumb guy. Oh, sorry. I hope you didn't tell him to listen to today's podcast. Because he's going to be like that. Well, no, I'm defending him now because I have to. No, he really is. He's a nice guy. He's a smart guy. He's a sales guy focused on selling. And they sell security systems for businesses and also the plumbing work for fire systems. Okay. And, you know, the net is not what he does. And he

just didn't know. And I tell you, the fact that we had somebody in this office who didn't know means there are a buttload of people out there. Not a butt flap, like in the video. A buttload. A buttload. Which kind of sounds like a dookie. That's what I think of. I think the other term is shit pot. Yeah. I don't know if we can say that on the internet. I wouldn't care because we're awesome. Anyway, so there's a whole lot of people who don't realize that difference. And so they may just be, you know, unconsciously going directly to the right side. So there's a potential client that if you're saying, you know what, we're organic, let's cancel our pay-per-click, you're missing him. You just, you'll never get that client if that's where they happen to go. And I would never recommend someone do that. And listen, from my own personal standpoint, I do not click sponsored ads. Most of the people we talk to say that. Rarely, if ever. And at first, you know, two years ago, I'm just pushing SEO, SEO, and I'm like, ah, PPC, whatever, you know. I don't click them. Personally, I don't click them. But the numbers speak for themselves. Billions. They speak for themselves. Billions of dollars. Google makes their billions of dollars from the pay-per-click. There you go. People click on those things. Now, just because you don't doesn't mean other people won't. So take that into account. You know, think like a customer. Don't think like a business owner. Don't think like, what do you do? Yeah, don't think like yourself. Yeah, think about what, you know, what other people do. But so they're both great ways to market. The second thing to take into consideration is the cost up front and over time of SEO versus pay-per-click. Like, okay, with search engine optimization, everyone, I mean, I'm not, I don't think we, I guess, I don't know if we have covered this, but typically with search engine optimization, there's a lot of work that has to

be done up front. You know, we talk about this. Meta, before you even optimize, you know, you got to have meta tags, right? Content. Keywords. I mean, the effort involved in keywords is ginormous. Research, you know. You're going to have a heavy up front cost. And, you know, it could be a setup fee or it could be this or that. And then you're going to have a monthly cost to maintain those efforts. You know, companies like us, they're going to charge you for that because it's going to take their time, a week, two weeks, possibly a month, just to set your website up. And they're going to bill you for that. You know, a small to medium-sized business may not have the budget to take care of that. Take care of that expense. But it's, and if anyone is saying they're going to do your SEO without setting up your website, red flag, run away. Yep. You know, we have never seen a website that was ready to go. Thank you. Ever. Yeah. PPC or, you know. Unless we made it knowing that it was going to go towards. It was going to get out, yes. You know, you got to look at calls to action, you know. And someone should be telling you this. Hey, yeah, I will optimize your website. But you have no calls to action. Your phone number's not on your website. You don't have any keywords on there. What do we call it? We call that something. You get a deuce bag? No, that was three podcasts ago. Sevo. Sevo. We call that Sevo. Search engine visitor optimization. So that's, you know, it's a foregone conclusion, especially with pay-per-click and with organic. Once we get you up there, then you're going to get traffic. The question is, what is your website going to do with those traffic? What is your search engine visitor optimization? So if people, if the SEO and or pay-per-click company that you're working with is not asking those kinds of questions, you know, what's so great,

you know, I can say, in fact, we were discussing the other day about how much value we have to give once we know that we're getting them traffic. Like, we got to double check the website. We got to say, okay, when they type these keywords, where are they showing up? And that, with us, that's a six-month review. Hey, you know, these terms are getting you lots of traffic. They're sending you to a page that doesn't really have those keywords in it just for whatever reason or those keywords are in it and well-placed in it, they're just not prominent enough to really grab attention. So, you know, that ongoing process, you need to look for your SEO company to do. Yes, and now in terms of the long-term cost with SEO, your long-term cost, you know, your monthly maintenance is not going to be nearly as much as what your upfront cost was because it's not, you know, preparing the website takes much longer than actually maintaining it. And with pay-per-click, you know, your cost stays pretty stagnant. Well, you know, if you don't add any new keywords or things don't change. Or new markets. Yeah, or new markets. If you keep things constant, it should stay pretty much the same. So, when you're sitting down thinking, okay, what's my budget, which everyone should be thinking, what's my budget for internet marketing? Okay, I want to do PPC and SEO. I need to have some money up front to prepare my website. I need to have money to maintain my SEO while I'm ramping up in the rankings. And I need to be putting money into my pay-per-click so I can make business today, tomorrow, until I get on the first page, first position. So, that's the cost over short-term and long-term. Last thing I want to talk about are the results. The long-term value of pay-per-click versus search engine optimization. Again, I'm going to say that the value, the results of pay-per-click will, are for the most part stagnant. Well, I want to say they

should go up. They should be linear. Okay? Because the longer you're doing pay-per-click, the more that you're learning, you're figuring out that keyword sucks. This keyword is better. Stop throwing away money on it. Yeah. So, it should be linear. Now, I wouldn't want to say stagnant. It should be linear. And if you're doing A, B variant, and we haven't done a podcast on that, that'd be a great podcast to do, where you're actually having, you know, okay, so we decided that a call to action is a phone number, and another call to action is to download a white paper where they give us an email, a name, and a phone number, and they press submit, and they get that white paper. We can have one page that focuses on the phone number, another page that focuses on that form, and we can determine which one, first off, which one gives us more calls, and which one gives us more, actually, form submittals, and then with our system set up properly, we can actually track, oh, great, I got a lot more calls, but I close a lot more business when they submit forms. So, maybe I'm getting less forms, but it's the ROI of those form submittals is higher. So, you know, you can really, with this whole process, break things way down and really understand where the value is. So, with your pay-per-click, you should have a linear slope. It should, you know, the more, if you put more money at it, and the better you get at it, you should have better results. You know, if you're spending, and you, I mean, here's an example, you spend $100 a month, you know, I mean, of course, this is depending on your industry. You mean a day, right? Yeah. You spend $100 a month, you know, you're not going to get that many results. That's right. $100 a month is throwing money at the wall and hoping that something sticks. Yeah. And frankly, usually when you throw money at the wall, I've tried it,

nothing sticks. Yeah. It's just, nothing does. You know, if you spend $1,000 a month, okay, now we're talking, you spend $10,000 a month, you know, your results are going to increase with your spend and hopefully you're learning so maybe you can get a little bit more of an advantage because you're getting better at your keyword selection and things of that nature. With search engine optimization, the value of your results should be exponential. And we, you know, if you took out high school algebra, you understand the exponential curve, you know, the better, because, okay, the difference between being on the fifth page of the natural results and being on the fourth page is huge. And being the fourth to third is bigger, you know. The number of questions you could potentially get. The first is massive and being from the 10th position to the first position, it's just exponential. It's insane. It gets bigger and bigger and better and better and better. So that's what you should take into account over the long run, you know, your SEO, it's going to cost. And I think that that's one thing that people don't necessarily think about. I want to be on the first page of Google, you know, whether it's PPC or SEO, it's going to cost, you know, you're going to, your, your bid, your placement on the PPC is tied to your bid, you know, it's tied to a lot of things, but it is tied to your bid. So when it's, when you're doing your budget, you need to think about that. What is, you know, I need to budget for this. I need to have this upfront money for SEO, upfront money for PPC, but it's all going to work. I think you've mentioned some good things. And for a lot of the business owners out there, it's pretty important. And, and, and the guideline that a lot of businesses use is a percentage of revenue should go towards advertising. It doesn't necessarily need to go all towards us as an internet marketing

yet, um, yet, you know, but it certainly could some percentage of it. So it's a good idea to, to pull a number. And I know there's a very famous businessman here in town sells like $45 million worth of furniture and his number is 15%, 15% of his revenue, gross revenue. So that's before expenses and everything goes back into advertising. Choose a number so that you know where you're at. Because Paul just said a number, he said $10,000 spent on pay-per-click. That probably makes a lot of people nervous. A better way to look at that $10,000 is what does my revenue have to be if I've allocated, let's just use the same number, 15% in order for me to be spending $10,000 of that money on internet marketing, specifically pay-per-click. Think in those terms because you don't have to start off spending 10. You need to start off spending more than a hundred because that's throwing money at the wall and it's not going to stick. So your, your target for pay-per-click is, you know, usually we're around a minimum of 600 to a thousand. And then what are the things that you need to put in place so that your business grows so that you can spend, in fact, not that you can, that you should be spending $10,000 a month. Yeah. Because at that point with the 15% number, I wish it was 10 because it'd be easier. Yeah. If it were 10%, that means it's $100,000 a month of revenue. You're spending 10 on internet marketing. Yes. So, so think of it in those terms because these numbers, you know, we, all of our proposals now, actually, we start off with recommendations and all of our recommendations tend to push businesses' comfort zone. And that's okay because what we're telling them is here's, here's what you should be spending ultimately when your business has matured and is taking full advantage of the internet market that's available, right? When you get there, your revenue is going to be here. We don't want that check

today, right? So that we can spend it on paper quick, but we want to get it so that you're comfortable cutting that check because it's giving you so much value. Yeah. And you're going to have to get comfortable, you know, it's not, unless you're doing it yourself, you know, it's not, it's going to cost. You're going to have to be able, willing to invest in your time, invest your time and money into your business, you know, to ensure the future of your business. And one last point before I get out of here, there's something that I think is, is phenomenal. And I believe that now that I'm more educated, now I believe that pay-per-click and search engine optimization are complimentary services. They can help each other. They help with your branding and they can help your, you become more, each can help you become more successful. A great technique is that if you're doing pay-per-click, since you get results faster, you can use your keyword research for your pay-per-click to help with your search engine optimization. Because with SEO, if you select a keyword number one, it may be a month, two months before you figure out, oh, hey, does this keyword bring an ROI? Why is it bring traffic? Maybe it gets traffic and no ROI. Yeah. And it takes time to figure that out with your pay-per-click. You'll know immediately, okay, no, this keyword sucks. So they work together to help you, you know, to help you and your company's internet marketing campaign. So keep that in mind. And there are more similarities to it. I'd actually printed out a chart, but it's, uh, don't have time. Don't have time. So, excellent. Uh, this is podcast number, what, 67. Uh, you are listening to the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. We really appreciate you listening. Uh, and we really appreciate it when people like, uh, Corey. Hardcore. Hardcore. I hardcore. It's a little I. It's kind of cool. I hardcore. Um, go out there, create an account on iTunes, uh, submit a

review, uh, and then make sure you email us because we'd love to give some link love back to, to Corey. We really appreciate that. Um, this is the end of podcast number 67. We really appreciate you listening. Uh, until the next podcast, my name is Chris Burris. Bye-bye for now.