Google Analytics, 301 Redirects and CTA's - #seopodcast 113

Hi, and welcome to the Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing, the SEO podcast. I don't know if you got it right. I think I switched the SEO and the internet marketing. Welcome to the show. My name is Chris Burris, owner of eWebStyle. I'm Charles Lewis, your internet marketing specialist. All right, let's get started. You're tuning in to the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. We're starting a little bit late today. A lot of it late. So what? It might just change our time. You know what? Exactly. And there will be X, like, whenever it happens. Hey, in the news today, and we could claim this is the reason we're running late, and that would be a lie. We are in Houston. We have to mention the final shuttle launch today. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of a sad day for Houstonians. I don't even know what's going to happen to, like, NASA. Is NASA going to stay? It's going to become a theme park, right? Yeah. And what's funny is that they have the test shuttle at NASA here in Houston that they train at, and they're moving that, too. They're moving it? They're taking that to California, isn't it? What? Like, the Universal Studios or something? I don't know. I don't know. That's wrong. So it's sad. We're shedding a slight tear here for that. As always, we want to mention, in our last podcast, we had a tip. Don't use, and the tip was, don't use vanity phone numbers. It sucks in general. Yeah. And sucks really bad for mobile devices. Exactly. Vanity phone numbers. You know, 1-800-CALL-US. Right? We're just thinking the same thing. It's crazy. 1-800-CALL-US. Yeah, because what we discussed in the last podcast, make sure you go back and listen to it, is that on mobile devices, if it's a regular phone number, you can actually highlight it, and it'll call right away. If it's a vanity phone number, not going to happen. Not going to work. Yeah. Or, depending on your mobile device, you may not have the letters under

the numbers. Yeah, so even if you had it printed out, you know, 1-800-CALL-US, and you're typing it in, you get to 800, and then you're like, C. Yeah. Where's the C? So, yeah, don't do that. Not cool. Not cool. Let's see. We've got some Facebook interaction. You guys can follow us. You can stalk us. Facebook.com slash eWebStyle. Twitter.com slash eWebStyle. YouTube.com slash eWebStyle. Podcast at e-WebStyle.com is an email address where you can send us information. A lot of people just seem to interact with us on... I'm a little depressed today. No reviews? No reviews. I mean, I dug up some stuff that was on Facebook, and it almost counts as a review, and it's still not a review on iTunes, so... Need that iTunes review. None of our listeners has gone out and... Remember, I mean, we're just your friendly neighborhood top position snatchers, and we just want you to go onto iTunes, create an account, and submit a review, and then let us know about it so we can promote your website. Yeah, take like two minutes. Isn't that win-win? I'm sensing win-win there. Anyway, please do that. We did have some comments. I found one that ended up hidden on our Facebook. I'm sure it was like a fat finger click. It was like, because when I unhit it, it said, it has been removed from spam. I'm like, but I... It wasn't... It wasn't spam. I don't even know what that means. This is from Dave Gibbons. We are also doing a video website analysis podcast called The Unknown Secrets of Website Analysis. It's really about SEVO, Search Engine Visitor Optimization, which we're going to be talking about today, and if you go to our website, there's a form on every page. Fill that form out. Give us your website, and if you're a lucky chosen one, we'll do a video review of your website. Personally, I'll do it. Me and Chris will do it. We'll pull your site up, tell you what's right with it, tell you what's wrong with it,

tell you what you should improve on, and then we'll send it to you, video. So you can use it, review it, and, you know, post it. Maybe use it for a presentation for a boss. You say, like, you know, look, we need to hire these guys, look at them doing the analysis of the website, we need to get these things done and taken care of the right way. There's lots of uses for it. You could write us back and say, please take it down immediately, which we did. I mean, it wasn't because they didn't like it. It was just because it was a franchise, and they really wanted us. They had some issues, yeah. So we're glad they did that. Dave Gibbons wrote, and his website is footballsquirts.co.uk. Clearly, he's over in England. Hey, guys, thanks for the free analysis. Just saw it on Ustream. I designed and built footballsquirts.co.uk, and, by the way, I'm a longtime podcast listener. He's at Dave202511. So if you want to follow him, at Dave2511. All right, got you, Dave. Definitely a few pointers on there. He can action. Plus, I noticed one of your toolbars on Firefox, SEOquake, I think, broke the design slightly, which I never knew happened. The gradient on the main logo was pushed down and stuck out like a sore thumb. Hopefully, we brilliantly noticed. Yeah. Then it will. I don't recall noticing it. We'll just pretend we did. And so he's going to get that straightened out. And then he wanted to make an important point. He said, let's get this straight. Football is called football because you use your foot and control a ball. We are not just going to start calling it soccer because you want to steal the name for a sport where you pick the ball up with your hands and run around with it. Love, love. I understand. Which, by the way, is just rugby with safety equipment. No, no, no, no, no. That is not true. Rugby is much faster than football. Yeah, a little personal site.

My bad. Dave, you know, we were just saying. In regards to your American class, you know, people who may be visiting your site over here. Like, we found it. You know, we call it soccer. Yeah. I know you're not targeting Americans to send their children over there. Maybe you do. Because I think they could actually learn a lot about soccer. I played soccer. By the way, I played soccer for 25 years. It's a great sport. So I know where you're coming from. And then we got this comment. This was from Michael Deluzio. I think you actually put some responses out here. He said he's got. Okay. Michelle is actually what it is. She's got two questions. With an e-commerce site, or any site for that matter, are there any SEO benefits drawbacks to having an alternate version of the page in a different language, in a different language, Spanish for instance? And two, in regards to URL naming for SEO, do you think it's better to go with all lowercase or, you know, can you have uppercases? And her example was about underscore us, one with all lowercase, the other with the A and the U being uppercase. I've always preferred all lowercase, but I've seen the other way too and always wondered. And Chuck, you wrote back. You want to kind of on air? My response was basically, let's see if I can say the same thing I told her without reading. But no, my response was basically, first off, in regards to the languages, that's fine. If you choose to do that, make sure they're in a separate folder, keep it organized, or an easier route would be to use the Google Translator. It works okay, but, you know, it does translate the words enough to get the message across. And I think if you are targeting a Spanish market, you know, I mean, if there is some amount of value you can get from the Spanish market, then, I mean, you do have to. Yeah, you have to do it. Exactly. If

that's your market, then cater to your market. And in regards to the URLs, lowercase letters works best to me. Just kind of keep everything the same. And instead of the underscores, use hyphens. Yeah. Use hyphens instead of underscores. And she wrote back and said, thanks for the reply. We generally use hyphens. They've got a large number of products, so sometimes the capital letters sneak in. By the way, the caps don't really matter. Yeah, don't matter. It's not case sensitive. Yeah. And Google, I've never seen Google say that the same page with different cases in it is considered a different page. So you don't have any issues with Google link juice like you might have with an index page and just the domain name being considered two different pages, which is for obvious reasons. This is kind of in the news. It's kind of my last little point here. I thought it was hilarious. This is on CNN Tech. When it comes to presentation, Mark Zuckerberg is no Steve Jobs. So during Mark Zuckerberg's presentation of the video chat feature, which should be pretty exciting, right? And apparently some of the Facebook messages that were put out were, OMG, that's an oh my god, if you guys don't know. I've just read about it later. I'll just read about it later. This is like water torture. Wow. I'm going to play solitaire if he doesn't get on with it. Someone needs to bump him to get him to stop saying, um. After this, I need an um detox program. Wow. Logarithmic graphs, Jesus Christ. I mean, he was dead bad? Apparently, yeah. Wow. Yeah, so apparently he's not so good on the presentations. Well, you heard about his kind of discreet blow at Google Plus. Uh-huh. Yeah, so, you know, Google Plus includes the Google Hangout, social circles, and the other thing. And so, uh, he said, usually a circle includes people you know, not people you don't know. That's not true in a drum circle. Well. And that's why, like, how you meet people, too.

I mean, that's, I don't know. Well, and then I read a comment that made sense. The comment said, well, that's usually not how regular people communicate. Because you can have, you can admire somebody and they don't even know you exist. Right. Right. Or I can think of you as a friend and you think of me as an acquaintance. Right. Right. And so, the comment was saying that the circles is more, more close to how people actually communicate instead of just friends. Instead of just friends. Yeah, because you debate. Like, you get these offers. You want to be a friend and you're like, well, I don't know you. Yeah. I know, I know you through an email or I know that, I don't know, for instance, you listen to our podcast. But, you know, is that put you at the friend level where maybe the circle allows you to, to kind of. Identify how you know them. Yeah. This is my circle of acquaintances. These are friends. These are acquaintances. These are, yeah. So, interesting. That's, I like that. Because usually a circle is people you have as friends. All right. Let's get to the meat of the podcast. We're actually going to talk about Sevo. If you're not a regular listener, put to the podcast first. Shame on you. Go back and listen to podcast one through, I don't know, whatever. 113. 113, yeah. Go back and listen to all of those. Like everyone else who is a regular listener. Because we get, you know, reviews all the time of people saying I've gone through. I think the one that pops to my mind is really good at 2X. Because he listened, he set his pod, iPod on two times speed. Oh, yeah, yeah. And listened to our podcast at 2X. Yeah, Alvin and the Chipmunks. And friends. Yeah. So, go back and listen to all the podcasts and here we go. This is an article from Search Engine Land. It's called, How to Increase Conversions for, and if I say um a lot, I

just don't want anyone to have to go through um detox after I talk. Like, that's, it's not a very high goal. But it is a, yeah, but it's a reasonable goal. How to Increase Conversions for Organic Keywords. This is by George Asland. Uh, and it's from May 12th, 2011. Uh, and really what this is talking about is some good analytics, Google analytics. Yeah, that's what I kind of picked up from it. That he was using Google analytics to determine how to manage, you know, your, your, uh, your organic business, pretty much. I think we, I'll glance at this article from time to time. But I think we can really just talk about what, what would we look at? Um, so let's say we've got a client, we're already placing well on a, a number of, of keywords and, and there's always some, uh, what I call collateral keywords that start placing well. And we have goals set up, uh, either a goal for, um, filling, in our case, we have a goal for when you fill out a web submit form, uh, so that we, we do that web analysis for you. Um, if you're an e-commerce site, you've got e-commerce. So say we've got all of that rolling and we're six months in and now, uh, we usually do about a six months analysis, uh, with a client and we want to understand, okay, great. We've, we've got this site up, getting traffic, you know, you're getting forms was, what's your pain now, you know, do you feel you should get more forms or are you, or are you getting too many, you know, performing exceptionally well. Well, that's true. That's a good point. Cause some people are like, okay, um, I can't handle this business or it's the wrong kind of traffic or, you know, which we try and mitigate up front in the keyword selection. Uh, and you know, we've had clients who look, all I want is B2B and we tell them, look, the only way to get the B2B is

to go after the B2C keywords. So you're going to have end users calling you and typically they'll say, well, that's okay. I can weed through that. But you know, at six months they might be, look, my phone rings from 9am till 5pm, uh, every five minutes. And it's a, it's a, it's a B2C. It's a B2C. So we've got to figure out some way to mitigate that. Uh, and then that usually goes into web design or whatever. Um, so they're up and running, they're getting traffic. Uh, we've got goals to look at. We've got either goals or e-commerce goals and so what, what would we look at? Like what's, what's the next step? We, we, we, we've, we, we've provided significant value. We always want to provide more. What are we, what are we going to do? I'd like to look at, uh, when I'm going through analytics, which is frequently, you know, like daily. Every five minutes, kind of like the phone call. Um, I'm looking at exit pages. Number one, I like to look at where people are leaving the site at. And then I go back and, um, that's, that's, first off, exit pages is a good place to figure out, you know, what's making people leave your site. If it's at a thank you page, if your thank you page is an exit page, then great. Right. That means that, that came from a conversion. But let's say one of your top exit pages is, is, is your homepage, right? Then, then you had, then it's likely you have a high bounce rate and that's not good. I had a meeting with a client yesterday that, uh, that we're working on a landing page and the landing page is not performing well. And, uh, you know, so it, it really took a meeting with the owner, um, and, and one of our partners, us sitting down and saying, okay, what is, you know, what is the target client? What is the target client actually looking for? Cause a target client for

an automobile is looking for something different than somebody who's looking for a, I don't know, a, a, a landscaper. Yeah. Um, those sites need to be different. Those landing pages need to be different. So one needs to be more content heavy. The other one should probably be more image heavy. Yep. Right. Absolutely. It really depends on the client and what exactly they're doing. And so, so exit pages help you figure that out. Yep. Second, second, um, stat I usually look at is, um, keywords, which keywords bought them here, you know, um, and if you're doing, you know, uh, paid search and, and SEO, then kind of look at both. And you can usually find similarities. Yep. Some of these keywords will be the same and then some of them will be totally different. Right. With, you know, just great information to know what people are paying for versus what you should be optimizing for. Um, so yeah, look at exit pages, look at keywords. Um, and like I said, if you're running goals earlier, look at those, you know, figure out, um, so, so what do you look for in goals? Right. So now we know we're looking at goals. What's you, what's something that you might look at? And I, and I've got some ideas. I know some of the things that I look for. Well, what I do when I look at goals, I compare how many goals we have attained and compared to, um, how much traffic we got. From each keyword. From each keyword. So if we had, you know, uh, easy number, a hundred hits. Right. A hundred hits in this week. Right. Okay. And we only had, you know, 10 goals submissions. Right. And that's 10%. Right. Which would be phenomenal, by the way. You said only. I was like, we're not implying that we always hit 50%. Yeah. Um, we're not implying. Yeah. But, you know, I kind of look at that and then I try to figure out, dig down as deep as I can to figure

out which keywords about which traffic. And if I can tie in that goal to a keyword, then that kind of goes back to which organic keywords I need to focus on. Right. For, for instance, if maybe, uh, if you've got one keyword that, uh, over a long period of time has consistently got one click per month and each click has turned to, so a hundred percent on a particular keyword, you know, that's converted into a goal, you know, that maybe the reason you're only getting one click per month on that keyword could be a number of reasons. One could be, you know, the keyword may be long tail, so not that many search for it, or maybe you're on page two or, you know, you're, you're not high enough in the ranking. So, but when they actually get to your site with that keyword, they convert, that would be an indication that you need to focus on your organic search engine optimization for that keyword, um, cause it's, cause it's converting. You create a page for that keyword, a whole new set of content for that keyword, um, and then go through your standard, you know, typical onsite stuff, titles, headers, you know, any images associated with it. Start blogging about it if you don't, yeah. Yeah, I would take that keyword. Yeah, absolutely. Cause then, cause you know, the theory being, uh, if I can get that one click per month up to a hundred, uh, and even have a, you know, whatever, a 25% drop, I'm still getting 75 events, goals accomplished per month. And so that's, that's significant. Those are the kinds of things that you want to go after. Um, and then, you know, a similar thing when you, when you have an e-commerce site and you're actually dealing with dollar value of sales, you know, it's, it's one level of complexity and or simplicity depending on how you look at it. Right. So you get a keyword again, it only gets one click. Let's say that same example. So the

goal was accomplished in this case, it's e-commerce every single time somebody shows up there, it results in a sale and the sale's worth 50 cents, right? To you as a company. And then you've got another keyword that's not doing so well. It's getting 50% conversion rate, but the value is a thousand dollars. You know, now you really know you need to focus on that keyword. Again, it depends on where they're, where they're showing up in the SERPs, but that e-commerce really gives you an idea of, you know, where, you know, the whole 80, 20, if you spend 20% of your time on the right things, you're going to get 80% of your profit. From that. Yeah. Well, not just that. With e-commerce, it's pretty good with Google Analytics, how you can tie in a keyword and gold to a specific dollar amount, you know? So that's a good way to track profit, loss, you know, or especially if you're doing pay-per-click, right? And this click is costing you 15 bucks and it's bringing in, you know, a certain amount of traffic that's only yielding, you know, 18 bucks worth of sales. Like at this point, is it worth investing in that key phrase? And so, you know. And sometimes that question is, is the answer to the question isn't obvious, you know? Okay. So I'm only making three bucks in that, in that particular example. Um, or did I get it reversed? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So I'm only making three bucks and, and, you know, another product may be making more. Maybe there's more follow-up sales. So you also, you really need to understand your business about somebody who comes in and buys, um, a, a, a lug nut and turns around and then buys the, the lug nut tool, um, may have a lot more value than somebody who just gets a wrench or, or whatever it may be. So, um, you know, another thing to look at that is, is to make sure that your e-commerce website is sophisticated enough that when

somebody buys something and they usually buy something else, you got to make that process as easy as possible for them. Yeah. Make sure they log in. Um, good way to check that in analytics would be to look at your repeat visitors, you know, because it is tracking IP address. So if they came back to the site again, while I won't tell you who exactly it was, you can kind of gauge how many repeat visitors you had based on, well, in compared to how many repeat sales you had, you know, if you get your repeat visits as high and you get repeat sales from the same clients, then it's likely that, uh, that, that keyword is working. Yeah. Yeah. Um, one of the things that's in this article, check the entrance pages for issues. Now, what kind of issues might we have on a, on a, four pages or, you know, it's an old page. I don't even call that an issue. That's just like a, that's a dramatic, maybe an old page that you, you may redesign your site, right. And you put up a new site and you got these old pages that you haven't deleted and they're indexed and they're in Google cash. And so those sites may rank well, unfortunately. So what do you do with those sites? You, you, you redirect them. 301. Yeah. 301 redirect. We talk about it. We talk about it all the time. You don't want to just send traffic that direction. You actually want to 301 redirect. By the way, if it's ranking better than your new website, you need to do some analysis and understand, I mean your new webpage, uh, the, the replacement webpage, you need to do some analysis and understand what do I have on the old version of the page that's outperforming the new version and make sure you get that, that transferred over. Um, another thing that, that is really important for, uh, for checking for issues is really related to what we call SEVO, search engine visitor optimization. For

instance, um, you know, we, we don't have control of what page Google will show display for a given search term, right? So we have some control and we work to control that as much as we can. Google tends to favor the homepage, uh, even though some other pages may have a significantly more content relevant to it. One of the examples is, um, uh, one of our clients is a human behavior expert. He, as a human behavior expert, he's created some quit smoking products. And so some traffic will come to that website is patrickwanis.com and they'll come there having searched quit smoking in a particular city. Uh, and Google is choosing to send them to the homepage, not to his quit smoking product page. Exactly. And so when you look at that, this is where you were digging into analytics every five minutes and you look at that and you're like, okay, great. I'm getting traffic from quit smoking. Where are they landing? So you actually have to go do a search there. They're landing, you can find it in Google analytics. It's actually easier just to go pull up Google search, quit smoking and click it. Um, and it turns out they're laying on the homepage, which doesn't have any clear and obvious quit smoking link. Yeah. Just small CTA. Yep. So we added a bigger one with, you know, smoke actually waving. Uh, so it really stood out and sales increased significantly. So, uh, those that, you know, that would be an issue for an entrance page. And that goes back to what we talk about regularly, which is continuity. Yeah. If I search for quit smoking and when I land, first off in the search engine results page, I want to see quit smoking in the, in the ad or in the text. Yeah. Both, yeah. Both the PPC or the, um, organic listing. And then when I click it, I need to see quick smoking pretty quickly. Um, cause otherwise I'm just going to bounce. There's, you know, I, I think, why

search, just go back and choose another one. I think that, um, contact information, we were talking about, you know, stuff that's getting left off of that landing page when people land there, the entrance page, uh, make sure you have the right contact information. People, you know, this could be a search that, that may be a time sensitive, um, type of industry you're in and so when they do click, when they do land there, the next thing is to pick up the phone and call. And if this is some page that you just did, you're testing it and you failed to list the proper contact information, then, then you wasted a click and you get a bounce. And so, you know, make sure your entrance page is definitely, uh, optimized and, and has the right information on it. Yep. And there's something that we probably don't mention enough and that's the ability to do what's called call tracking, um, it's certainly a service we offer here, uh, for our clients where what we'll end up doing is on your website, we'll replace your current business phone number and we can do this multiple locations. We can, there's a number of, yeah, there's a whole lot of tools we can use for this, with this, but we'll replace that number, uh, with another number. That other number forwards, bless you, forwards to your business number. And what that allows us to do is we can track, you know, we can get to the level of detail of tracking keywords, specific keywords coming at, you know, how did somebody, somebody called you, what keywords did they use to call you? Um, that's pretty granular. It's some pretty good data. Yeah. Depends on how massive your campaign is. Yeah. You know, you have thousands of keywords and, and, you know, maybe 10 or 20 different sorts of products, then it may be necessary to get, you know, five or 10 different phone numbers for each type of product you have. And that way you can determine who's calling, uh,

call tracking is so cool. We can not only track who's calling, but, you know, what time they called, where they called from, we can record the call. Yeah. Um, you know, by the way, the recording the call is, is absolutely significant. Um, there's one example that we have where, uh, in, in those people, yeah, in a program, um, we, we go to the owner and the owner, you know, we're excited. This is getting, you know, we, we know from stats from their finance department that they're actually closing 25% of the calls that are coming in. And we go to the owner, we're like, look at this. There's this many calls and, and 25% of those are closing and we're excited to be showing to him. He's like, what? 25% are closing. That's ridiculous. We closed 50%. I think in this case it was actually 75% and which is just impressive. Um, we usually close 75% and we're like, well, now, you know, we're like, uh, oh, we've pulled back and we're like, well, let's listen to some of those calls. And as we listened to the calls with the owner, it turns out that the salespeople, uh, taking the calls were going off of script. So they have a meeting, look, salespeople stay on script. Their sales go back to 75%. You know, I, I don't even know how you define the value of, of what we gave to that business because it's, it's massive, 50% in perpetuity. I mean, if you think about it, if his salespeople have fallen off, you know, I don't know, probably it was a situation where he ended up hiring extra salespeople and they weren't trained well enough. So he got them trained properly, but that's the value. That's one of the values that, uh, call tracking brings. It's just really good to know that, um, you're spending money on internet marketing and calls are coming in and the calls are coming in because of X, Y, Z. Yeah. If, if your business requires a phone call, you know,

a lot of businesses don't necessarily require a phone call, email, contact form, or it may be a download. Like I said, an e-com site, then it may not be entirely necessary to invest in call tracking. But if you need to be on the phone with them, it's definitely a worthwhile investment. Um, so another, another issue, we mentioned old page that's live. That's, that could be a problem on entrance page, uh, files with no navigation. Now this is a little weird, but it kind of goes back to the orphan page or the older page, uh, that, that maybe even the links, uh, on it aren't, aren't connected. Yeah. So again, you know, you know, most people redesign a site because they need to improve layout and improve navigation. They have new products, new features. And if that old page gets found with some old navigation on it, then, then the people get lost and they can't find what they're searching for. Um, and then ask yourself as you're looking at your, your analytics data. Again, is this the best landing page for this keyword on, and if it's not, doesn't mean you need to redesign it. Like I was a meeting with a client, the client yesterday, they do, they do a number of things. They do, um, siding and they do windows. Yeah. Hardy plank kind of siding and, and, and window installations, uh, sales and installations. And, you know, the homepage for them needs to be quick and concise so that if somebody, if one of their sales guys handed out a card and the sales guy, you know, one sales guy may be selling window products, another may be selling siding, both of those users are going to end up going to the homepage. They need to be able to find windows and siding very quickly. Yeah. But you don't want to send somebody who's searched for windows or siding to that page because that gives them an extra click before they get to the target page. You actually want to send them

directly to the right landing page, the windows landing page or the siding landing page for that particular, um, from that particular website. So, um, I think that's, that's all we got for, I think it was great information actually. Um, again, you are listening to the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. That is because of you, uh, because you listen to us a lot. Uh, we really appreciate that you can find us at, uh, actually you can listen to the podcast live on Friday mornings, uh, e-webstyle.com or Friday afternoon or Friday evening. Eventually we'll be here. I won't have coffee. I'll have a beer and we'll be doing our podcast. Um, maybe we should just have the beer in the morning. It's afternoon somewhere in the world and we're an international crowd. Um, e-webstyle.com slash SEO podcast, uh, is a, a good page where you can find information about our SEO podcast and actually see the video of our podcast on Friday mornings. We do tweet right before, so make sure you follow us on Twitter, uh, and then you'll know when we're about to broadcast our podcast. It's at e-webstyle. Which by the way, I typed out the tweet, but I did not send it. So normally, normally we tweet. Well, I tweeted. Okay, so it got, it got tweeted. Um, you can also, of course, following us on Twitter is twitter.com slash e-webstyle. Uh, send us an email. We do do websites. Our focus is entire internet marketing. Um, you know, really making great websites, driving traffic to those websites, and then iterating back and forth with the traffic and the website to optimize the value that you can get from your website and that traffic. Make sure they convert. No need in having a great website that doesn't generate leads. Like I, like I said, I, and I mentioned this in the meeting, I have never met an owner who said, I don't care how few phone calls I get, I just want my website to look good. Yeah. Never met that owner.

Usually it's, I don't care how ugly it is. Just make the phone ring. Exactly. So, uh, thank you guys for listening. Um, again, stay in contact with us, follow us until the next podcast. My name is Chris Burrows. Sure.