CMS Content Management Systems and Internet Marketing - #seopodcast 48

Hi, and welcome to the Unknown Secrets of SEO Podcast. Hi, welcome back to another fun-filled edition of our SEO Podcast, A Day Early. Yes, A Day Early, actually. Yeah, it's Thursday. Wow. Today is Thursday. Maybe that's like the grogginess trying to get started. Are we supposed to be doing a podcast today? What's going on? This is podcast number 48. You are listening to the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes and soon to be Podomatic. And Ustream and... The world! The world! Facebook, Twitter. We are broadcasting this live on Ustream as we do normally on Fridays at 9.15 Central Standard Time. Today it is Thursday 9.15-ish Standard Time Central. There you go. And you are listening to a gold mine. Wow. Wow. Remember our song? You probably forgot. The song that comes in, the lead-in song and the trail-out song is Goldmine. That song jams. From our friends Circle the Cat. I don't even know if you can find them. I know they broke up. A friend of mine was in the band. That'd be the first thing I'd do is Google it. Where can I find it? We're going to get my free download on. We're going to pirate that song. If you want that, we'll, I don't know, we'll put you in touch directly with the Latin percussionist of Circle the Cat. So we have to be careful. We have to be careful not to exceed our Gino time limit. All right. Sorry, yeah. Gino, we're going to make it happen fast. All right. So what we want to do is say you can stalk us on Twitter. You find us at twitter.com slash ewebsstyle. There is no dash in that. You can also, you want to take one of these? That's a cool little list. Facebook. You can find us on Facebook. Quickly go to e-websstyle.com forward slash Facebook. Go right to our Facebook page. Awesome. On Ustream, the best way to find us on. I don't even know. I Google. I'm like Google Ustream ewebsstyle. I think you just. All right. Hey.

Somebody just threw. I keep forgetting it's not just video. Somebody just threw an airplane from over a cubicle. So on Ustream, you can go to e-websstyle.com slash Ustream, and that will take you to our Ustream page. You know what? We're on YouTube. That's what's up. I just saw him walk by that way, so. And it was a horrible throw. Oh, we are on YouTube. Yeah, we are on YouTube. We have some videos out there. I have no idea how to find it. We'll get that information. Google it. I don't even know why it's on my cheat sheet. I can't even cheat you there. Oh, yeah. And did I mention this already? We are the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. Number one. Number one. Speaking of that, we have. I know that last time we went over some reviews. And, Paul, I believe you're, you know, other than the fact that there's a SEO podcast named SEO Rockstars, I think you're becoming kind of a rock star because you were mentioned in this review also. Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah. This is from the guys. Brush my shoulders off here for a minute. Computer Corner Hawaii. Do you happen to remember their website? Yes. AJ at ComputerCornerHawaii.com. Oh, okay. Just in case because I know you were dealing with them. I think, yeah. I'm pretty sure. If not, probably if you Google Computer Corner Hawaii, because they're listening to us, I'm sure you'll find them because they're, you know, implementing fundamental principles of SEO guys in Hawaii. Aloha. What's up, AJ? Listen to their review. It's awesome. They took the time to create an account, got on iTunes. We're going to give them some link back love. And listen to this. We were looking for a way to improve our web presence in iTunes and ran across this podcast. From a small business perspective, listening to this podcast is half of the best investment you can make. The second half is when you call them, leave a message, and they actually call you back. Even

though we are in Hawaii in an entirely different time zone, Paul actually called and gave us a whole new insight into improving our website. They truly epitomize world-class customer service. Thanks, Paul. Since listening, we took their advice and listened from the very first podcast, then literally used a new improvement tip on our website from each podcast. Thanks for the great information. That's what's up. You know, this is a gold line of information. I was actually at a networking event the other day, and I was able to stand up at that networking event and say, you know, I am one of the voices on the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes, which was, of course, a very nice thing to be able to say. And it's entirely because of you guys. You know, I mean, we get up here. We share information. We're happy to share information. We share a little news. We have a little bit of fun. And the reality is it's entirely because of you guys. And we are really appreciative to you guys out there listening, enjoying. And, my God, we have to be past the Geno time limit. So thank you. I try to, every person I talk to, I try to sincerely thank them. We appreciate every single listener that we get. We remember when it was just us listening, and sometimes I wouldn't even listen. So thank you to everyone that listens. You weren't even listening to your own podcast? Oh, my God. So everyone that listens and watches, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Everyone that emails, sends stuff in, thanks a lot. We appreciate it. And now you mentioned a little bit of news today. This kind of threw me off a little bit. Yelp, the ever-so-popular online directory, kind of like a big competitor of CitySearch, is in extortion court. I don't even know if that's a court. But apparently, if you have some negative reviews and you want them removed from Yelp, call Yelp, and they'll charge you $300 a month to do that.

To remove the negative reviews? They were, they're service reps. I don't know if this is company policy. We're saying you have to sign up for a, you have to sign a contract with us every month to get your negative reviews removed. That kind of sucks. But I still like Yelp. Until they give us a negative review, then it's done. Our relationship is done. Then we'll sue them. Yeah. So they're being sued by a couple people, man. A company out of LA, a company out of New York, and there's a few others that I just, I didn't read on the article. But wow, I thought that was pretty interesting, man. You know, I'm going to go ahead and say that was possibly a customer service or a sales rep era and not a company-wide policy. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on that one. Yeah, I think so. Because, yeah, I hear stories all the time of friends who own businesses and, you know, are dealing with sales reps who, you know, cross the line, if you will. So, yeah, let's just, we'll chalk that one up to that. And I had heard, actually, like, people like CitySearch was doing the same thing. That, you know, we had one of our customers, a jewelry store here in Houston, who was trying to get some bad reviews removed. And, you know, part of the things that's wonderful about those editorial-type websites is you can't get the bad, you know, if I'm, I don't want to just go and hear good stuff. That's true. I want to hear the bad stuff. That's very true. You know, and it's a shame because I think a lot of, you know, wow, this is going to get real commentary, but our education system doesn't train people to read between the lines, to use critical rhetorical analysis well enough. And so, you know, one bad review, unfortunately, can really do a lot of damage to a business when if you read it, you know, and you really analyze

what whatever person is saying, you're like, you know what, this guy's got some serious issues and, you know, everything he's describing doesn't even sound like the same product or, you know, it really is unfortunate that people don't have that critical, often don't have that critical analysis because one bad review will not turn me away from a product. It depends on what's in the review. So if you really want to have an impactful bad review, take some time, put together a good one because I'll tell you what, I do. Or you can reply to them and, you know, I'm like the last like 45 seconds just went, I'm like, I'm stuck at critical editorial analysis. And I just shut down after that part. Like, I remember I passed that class and I promised myself I would never think about it again. So that's what's up with Yelp and apparently CitySearch too. So, hey, you should be watching, you should be Googling or searching yourself on those online directories and say, what are people saying about me? And that's part of, you know, one of the services that we do here is every six months we'd like to review our accounts. And one of the things we'll do is we'll just kind of Google you and see what's out there. And so, you know, when you're purchasing our SEO services, you're also purchasing, you know, some sort. I mean, we don't market it that way, but it's just kind of inherent in what we do. Some sort of kind of perception protection. Wow, that would be an interesting one. I like that. Perception protection. I've got to put that on my cheat sheet. I like that. That's a pretty good one. That's good. That goes with SEVO, Search Engine Visitor Optimization. So, what's on the menu? Look it up. Well, the first thing I want to talk about, we had a client call us today. We've had them on the first page forever, right? Since the beginning of time. Almost before Google existed. Yeah, right. They sell

rattan furniture here in Houston. And she called and she said, look, business has been slow for two years. And actually, when I first got this client, I told her, we're going to get you on the first page. You're actually going to succeed well because rattan furniture is not, you know, it's not like bedroom furniture. It's not like mattresses. So, the competitiveness of that term isn't going to be incredibly high. So, not only are we going to do what we promised, which we did, was to get her on the first page of Google for Houston, San Antonio, rattan furniture, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Dallas, Oklahoma. She actually has people who drive to Houston from Oklahoma and Louisiana. And Texas. And she's on there for Texas also. And Texas in general. Well, we told her, you're probably going to be on the first page for some very national terms. And she is. And so, I told her right up front, from the beginning, I said, you're probably going to want to start selling stuff online. And she's a lady who at the time was thinking, you know, oh, then I got a ship. And if the products get broken, and then it just sounds like a whole big headache. And I just pointed out to her, we were in her showroom. She has a showroom and a warehouse here in Houston. I said, would you rather expand your showroom or your warehouse? I'm going to say warehouse. Yeah. Significantly cheaper. Most of her monthly expenses are in her showroom. Not in the inventory that she has in stock and in the warehouse. So, because if you sell online, you don't need, your website is your showroom. So, she actually called us, and she was like, okay, what do I have to do to sell online? And I said, okay, well, here's things, and we need to get together, and so she's going to think about it. But one of the things that she wanted to know was, where's her traffic coming from? And I wanted to look

this up for her. So, would there be any value of her selling online? Because then she could sell across the whole country. And so, what I did is I pulled up Google Analytics. Oh, I haven't heard of that before. Yeah. And here's a, if you're looking at the video, ooh, look at that. That actually looks pretty good. All right. That's pretty cool. So, you can see that the number one thing that she has visits for is the state of Texas. We're actually, I broke it down by country, excuse me, yes, country slash territory details. Obviously, the country is the U.S., and the territories are actually states. That's a little interesting. In Texas, she has 339 visits a month. In California, I think this is a month. Maybe this is a week. No, that's a month. In California, 70. Florida, 64. New York, 47. And we'll skip down to Illinois, 15. The reason, I mean, the disparity between 70 in California and 339 in Texas is because we've actually optimized for specific cities in Texas. Again, Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Beaumont, and believe it or not. Woo-hoo! Beaumont, Texas. And San Antonio, which I may have said, and Austin, and Dallas, and Houston. Beaumont. So, you know, we project that we could significantly increase our traffic if we went after actually individual cities. I don't know, like Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, oh, New York City. City. And Chicago and Illinois. So, this is a very good report. I thought it would be a great thing to just bring up. And, you know, the flexibility of Google Analytics. You know, you can look up a lot of really good details. See where you're at. And, you know, make a business plan for, or, and, or a business case for how we're going to move forward. So, that's what we're doing with her. That's exciting. We're very, you know, we're exciting, of course, to get the business to do her full e-commerce website, which we do here in-house. And, also, to be expanding her business. So,

that's, that's really exciting. That's something that we do here on a regular basis. I have no idea when we started. So, basically, bottom line, you know, if you're getting some organic hits from states or cities or states outside of the ones that you're actually optimizing for, consider going after those, because let's say there's a neighboring city where someone really likes you and he talks about your products, and you start getting some hits from it, you know, you might want to consider optimizing for those particular country, states, or territories. There is another website that I'm going to put in my notes to talk about next time. It's a review website, and it, it, I heard it from a gentleman that was a meeting with yesterday, and I don't remember the name of the website. I will get that to you next time. It's pretty cool, though. So, if you want to control perception, what did I say? Perceive perception? Perception protection. Perception protection. What they'll do is they'll create a review site for you. It does cost 50 bucks a month, from what I understood, but each of the reviews actually becomes a page that can show up on Google, and it can help you to actually mitigate content. Yeah, it's content, and it's positive content, and it's content you control. So, it's interesting. It's got some interesting stats. Like, we have always said that you should actually have your reviews and your testimonials actually integrated into the website. This is a button that takes you to another website, and apparently 50% of visitors are actually clicking it, which is a little surprising from what we tend to talk about. Wow. And remember, this is buzzing in my ear. You should be doing Google Alerts to find out who's talking about you and what they're saying. Absolutely, yeah. And anything about your industry. I added a couple the other day that are relative to the industry as opposed to us. So, of course, we've got Google Alerts for eWebStyle, and Paul Hansen, and Chris Burris, and

Unknown Secrets to FCO, and the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. Of course we do. And we also add, you know, industry things like search engine optimization, Houston search engine optimization, whatever cities we're targeting. So, I am waving this piece of paper around. Yet again, we went back to C-E-M, excuse me, SEO Moz. I like this guy's site, man. This guy's got good information. I haven't been to it in a while, but good stuff. It is really. And this one was posted by Randfish. And I don't know how else we can find this. And I thought this was really important, because here at eWebStyle, we are switching from a non-content management system website production house to a content management system production house. So, whenever we do websites now, we actually do it in a content management solution. And we do that because at least we give flex, there's two reasons. One's a business reason, one's a customer reason, which ultimately are both business reasons. Yes. Yes. The first reason is a lot of our customers would like to be able to edit their website. And frankly, they're not going to learn how to do FTP, how to get, you know, how to edit their HTML. And we give them that capability, you know, everything they need. We never stand between them and their website. And they're just not going to do it. So, they come to us. We have a minimum billing rate. So, if they need us to tweak, you know, one little thing, then we got to bill for 30 minutes. And, you know, there are clients who just don't want that. So, a content management solution is a great solution for them. The other is, is inside, as we're expanding, thanks to you guys, we are expanding here at eWebStyle. As we're expanding, it's becoming clearer that we can really hone in our talent for designing very attractive and useful websites. And we've got some staff members who are really good at that. And let them focus on that and then just

turn it over so that the information can be populated into the website and it's much easier to bring somebody in and say, you know what, here's, in our case, Joomla. Here's how you use Joomla. Watch these three videos and now get to work. Right? So, it's kind of like a McDonald's. You can sit somebody down to watch a video and somebody can be cooking burgers who yesterday was picking his nose. There you go. Picking his nose. I'm not saying he's not picking his nose today. Well, I was thinking it was his job. He lost his nose picking job and now he's flipping burgers. That's a step up, yeah. We've got to post that on Craigslist. We need a grade A nose picker. There you go. So, why, so why, they have an article and I'm going to ask the rhetorical, well, not really rhetorical, why do you need a content management system? And basically, for those of you who, if you just tuned in, it's the very first podcast. We've talked about it before, but a content management system to a regular person on the street is a way for you to edit your website without having to learn web design software like Dreamweaver. And if you've ever tried, it's not easy. I've looked at it, but I'm like, come on, get real. Now, what it doesn't do, though, is give you the capabilities to, you know, bring in, you know, change the whole look and feel. I mean, you can do that in Joomla, obviously, because we're going to be doing that, but the average Joe is not going to be able to just go in and edit images and really change the look and feel of their website. What happens is we create the nice look and feel of your website, and then we populate it and make sure it still looks even better, and then turn it over to you. So, you could change out this image. You could change out that image. You could change text or whatever. And frankly, we

understand that sometimes when you change out images, there are so many nuances to the image process. You know, we find some people will upload, you know, a 5 meg image on their front page and then shrink it down. Well, you really should turn that into a thumbnail and then upload it. And the challenge with that is you don't want a 5 meg anything on your front page because it's going to be an incredibly slow loading front page. And that's bad. That creates a thing we like to call bounces. Yeah, bounce. Bounces are bad. Perception protection. We're just going to get on for 30 minutes and rattle off all these taglines and say, thank you for the podcast. Next. So, I thought it might be really good to talk about content management solutions or systems. And from an SEO perspective, we are an SEO podcast. So, in fact, we are the most... I'm not going to say that. And this is a really good article, again, by Rand Fish. And he came up with, like, he laid it out there and said, look, I can't cover everything. And in fact, some of the comments on this, there's like 51 pages of comments here. Oh, yeah. Some of the comments talk about, you know, things that he missed. And we may or probably won't go over that at a later date. But some of the things that we, you know, we understand and we take into consideration. And frankly, if you know how to program any one of these that might be missing from a content management system, you could actually work around. But you would really like to have these built into your content management system. So, the first thing that he says, what's the first thing that's on the list? Do you need... Oh, okay. Back to the chart. Title tag customization and rules. We have talked about title tags a million times. It's what shows up. And when you go to a website, what shows up in the blue bar at Internet Explorer or

Mozilla Firefox, that's the title of that particular page. And we do. We talk about titles all the time. So, of course, if you can't individually control the titles of a particular page, you're going to be lacking on the search engine optimization department. The other thing that he makes a point, and this is actually a really, really, really valid point, to make it easier on you, that is if, say, you're going to have a blog on your content management solution, then you would like the title not just to say, you know, to be individually controlled, but maybe you want to insert any blog page actually starts off with saying, you know, eWebStyles blog and then dash the name of the article. In fact, it should be reversed. If you guys have been paying attention to our podcast, you should always have your keywords first. Yes. And then any kind of auxiliary information that you may or may not want to have. And, in fact, we typically don't even recommend you have it. But if it's going to be something simple like eWebStyle blog, then you can certainly have that. And you make a rule so that anything that's in this category or anything that's on the blog actually automatically augments it with that. And so I think that's a great, that's absolutely a great suggestion. What do we got next? Static keyword rich URLs. Yeah. So from a, I don't know if you guys have ever been on a website and you look up in the address bar, and the address bar is where you would type, you know, google.com. And you look up there and you see all of this gibberish. Percent sign, one, two, three, four, SEO, dash, blah, blah, blah, blah. Cap, lowercase, cap, lowercase, lowercase, lowercase, cap, X, Y, blah, blah. Okay. So that is typical of a content management solution. And it's also problematic because, remember, Google gives value to the URL. So you want to actually be able to control the keywords that are in the URL. So one example,

and really WordPress is a blog. WordPress can be used as an entire website, and it's effectively a content management solution. It lacks some of the nuances of other, you know, more comprehensive content management solutions. And it still can be used as one. And what it has, it has capabilities. There are, like, plug-ins that you can put into it that will actually start using more web search engine friendly URLs. So if I have an article, like in our WordPress blog, like Blue One-Armed Widgets, when I put that in the title, that also actually becomes the title of the page. And it's also actually the URL. So Google gives a lot of credit to that. That's why we're on the first page for Blue One-Armed Widgets. We can do more. I just want to throw that out. That's not the only thing we're on the first page for. It sounds like, wow, those guys can get on the first page for Blue One-Armed Widgets. They suck. Which we actually did, which was actually cool, kind of like a funny experiment. Yeah. It worked. We're still there. Yeah. Number three, meta tag customization. I mean, I've kicked that dead horse dead, basically. Yeah. Everybody's going to say, bam, one more kick. Because meta tags are really important. And, of course, in a content management solution, you want to be able to tweak the meta tag for each and every page. Yeah. I mean, these are, like, quick. I'm just thinking off the top of my head. Title tag, meta tags. You can adjust those things quick, fast, in a hurry. I'm not saying, you don't want to spend hours doing those. You know, pick your keywords and put them in. And move on. Yeah. There you go. You don't want to spend a ton of time. They're not pivotal, and you should change them. Yeah. And sometimes, remember, we talk about, literally, we talk about CVO, search engine visitor optimization, starting at the SERP. Remember, starting at the search engine result page. If it's possible, to get your

phone number to show up. So, you do a search for Rattan Furniture, and the phone number can actually show up there. You don't even have to go to the web page. You can say, oh, Rattan Furniture. Boom. Give them a call. So, that is often controlled by meta tags. Meta tag description, it depends. Google's switching on and off, and, you know. That's like. That's why we get paid what we do, because we're always keeping track of that and doing the right thing for your company. So, in meta tag customization, you need to be able to do that. And in Joomla, you can. That's one of the reasons we're switching to it. Of course. Joomla. Joomla. Which means all sorts of weird things, right? Really? Arabic friend is over here, and it says, that means sentence. Really? Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. Sentence. Learn something every day. And donkey. Donkey. I'm kidding. I like donkey. I'm sticking with that. The next one is, enabling custom HTML tags. Tell us about that, Paul. The one that I think of is the first one that he put, was a nofollow tag, which is basically a customized tag that will tell someone, don't follow this particular page. I know there's other custom tags. I mean, there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tags. I was trying to throw you under the bus. You did an awesome job there. Yes. He's a sales manager. Get up, sucker. Duh. He's not the HTML coder guy. I mean, I like this. Header tags and title tag. I mean, there's tons. I mean, I've probably read 50 different tags. I don't know them all, but I know there's tons and tons of different tags. And most of them are actually going to be naturally built into a CMS. And what this is saying is, you know, like a nofollow tag is not something that you use on a regular basis. You use it very specifically if you don't want a search engine to recognize traffic that you're sending somewhere else. Go back

and listen to an older podcast for a more in-depth explanation of that. But, you know, there are other tags, you know, headline tags, sub-headline tags that just aren't used very often, and you want to be able to put those in. And really, even better than that, you really want to be able to put them in and have it understand them, which kind of means it's going to be built in. So I would almost disagree with this. Okay. Because I would say that it shouldn't be about custom header tags or extra functionality HTML tags. It's not header tags. HTML tags. Because they shouldn't be extra. They should be, you know, any kind of editing that you're going to do inside of a content management solution. It should render all HTML tags as they're supposed to be. And, you know, the HTML tags that exist are very well documented. You know, Google Chrome follows them. Firefox follows them. I.E. follows most of them. I had to throw that in there. That was a cheap shot at Microsoft. Kick the donkey. All right. So what do we got next? We got internal anchor text flexibility. Okay. Now, everybody, by this point, if you've listened, you should understand anchor text. And the importance of anchor text, and we've talked about it all the time, you need to have keywords in your anchor text. So an anchor is, you know, you're reading something and you see a link. The words that are in a different color is often underlined. That you click, you go to another page. That's your anchor text. Yeah. And what it's making the point is, and typically in a content management solution, you have the ability to break up articles or web pages as in different categories or different subcategories. And what it's saying is, you know, I may call a category blog, right? Okay. But maybe, you know, all the tags that link to my blog really should say SEO blog, right? Oh. Or search engine optimization blog or whatever it may be. And so

from kind of the perspective back office side of things, I just want to call it blog. And really, I should be able to customize the links that link to my blog pages so that they actually say, you know, search engine optimization blog. And so that would be kind of additional functionality. It's not obvious. Like for a programmer, I see why you would just do one. And then you might want to force your user to call everything search engine optimization blog. But, you know, that's a lot longer. So if you end up doing any hand coding or anything, you really should have that flexibility to do both. So that's one of the points. Are we at time? Well, yeah, let's do one more. We're going to, you know, we're going to give them, because they tuned in early. It's Thursday. Okay. They joined us early. So we're going to give you one more bonus one. Intelligent categorization structures. I don't know what that means, so we're done. All right. Well, I don't. All right. A close second of poor URLs is poor category structure. Yeah, you know. I'm still learning that, because I am still learning Joomla, which has been a fun experience and a difficult, and I'm learning sections and categories, so. Well, and Joomla is, you know, it's open source, which has very significant advantages in terms of the community that is continually writing code. And it's, you know, it's written by coders. So I think Paul is experiencing the coders' world, which is not entirely. You can keep that. How about that? It's not entirely user-friendly. Gosh. And you're being very kind. There's definitely a learning curve that we've gone up in order to switch into that. Yeah, and Paul has actually stepped up and has played the role of getting some data, you know, to take care of clients in a timely fashion, since we've got a lot going on. And so he's, I think it's good, because it'll help you, I don't know. Now I can speak intelligently about things like

Joomla, because two weeks ago I would not have been able to. He just, he would have said, that means sentence in Arabic. Or donkey. All right. Hang on, before we get out of here, let me shout out to a couple people. I'm not going to get through all of these, because I want to make sure and give everybody some backlink love. I want to give a shout out to Todd at 2CostaRicaRealEstate.com. He's a real estate developer and realtor in Costa Rica. They have a phenomenal website. If you're thinking about moving there, and I am jealous if you are, give Todd a call. His website is very, it's a very attractive website. It's laid out just awesome. I gave him an analysis. I'm like, Todd, I mean, you know, bud, there's not much I can tell you to do more than just your linking, because your website is laid out phenomenally. I spend a lot of time there just looking at, like, million-dollar homes on a beach in Costa Rica, which is just awesome. So, woo-hoo, what's up to Todd? I want to give another shout out to Maria Ramirez here in Houston at Cima Concrete. She requested an analysis, CIMAConcrete.com. And my main man, Jignesh. It's Jignesh.wordpress.com. He's requested an analysis of his website as well. So, Jignesh, Maria, and Todd, thanks for requesting an analysis. There's about three more of you on here. I will get to you next week. Thank you very much. Thank you, guys. Oh, you know, next week we may be interviewing somebody. I'm not going to tell you who. It's another service that actually works parallel. It's kind of a service that we offer, just a little better, actually. You know, I'm comfortable with meeting that. All right. And so, we're pretty excited about that. So, that may be actually the next two podcasts, because typically, you know, those interviews just go on forever. Yes, yeah. The next two or four podcasts, because that's what we did with Joe Orsak, which, by the way, those were great interviews. Go

back and listen to the Joe Orsak interviews. He's just got a, he's a great, dynamic person and some really good business insights. So, that was good. He really added to the podcast. So, that could happen next week. Until then, remember, if you provide Google users with a good experience, you will succeed as a search engine optimizer. I like that. This is our, what, 47th podcast? 48th. 48th podcast. You are listening to the Unknown Secrets of SEO podcast. We are the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. And thanks to you. We appreciate that. We'll see you guys next time. Until next time, I'm Chris Burris. I'm Paul Henson. Bye-bye for now. Bye, guys.