Specific Calls to Action to Convert Web Traffic, A Great Interview Part 4 of 4 - Unknown Secrets of SEO E-Webstyle Number 31

Hi, and welcome to Unknown Secrets of SEO Podcast. Welcome back. Thank you for joining us for another fun-filled edition of the Unknown Secrets of SEO Podcast. My name is Chris Burris, owner of eWebStyle. And this is Paul Hanson, sales manager at eWebStyle. And we are here in our studio office with Joe Orsack. How you doing, Joe? Yo, peeps, what's up? Yeah. They are like your peeps. This is the fourth podcast. We are so happy to have you again. We're happy to be working with your website here on the podcast. And thanks for coming. This is awesome. Things are going really well. Enjoying it. We don't have any new news items because we're actually doing this the same day as the last podcast. As the last one. So go back and listen to us, you know, rag on Kanye West and Raymond Clark, the body stuffer. We need to have Kanye actually call in and interrupt the podcast. Yeah. Beyonce's podcast is much better. That'd be awesome. I actually had somebody I saw on YouTube do that. They had like a Photoshop tutorial and that's like their normal little routine, you know, that all their videos are on Photoshop and all that sort of thing. And his deal was he's like, okay, I couldn't resist, you know. He was doing his Photoshop tutorial and Kanye bust in to say that his Photoshop tutorial is not as good and all that sort of thing. It was pretty awesome. I had to laugh. There were all sorts of videos of cutting in on politicians talking. On the president. Oh, yeah. He's like, sorry, guys. I couldn't resist. That's hilarious. That's awesome. Well, if the phone rings. How to make a fool of yourself in one easy step. Tell me about it. With one bottle of brandy. Yes. First. Or less. Go to a highly public, you know, outing, i.e. an MTV award or similar. Step two. Get drunk. Get wasted. Step three. Find it appropriate to get on stage. Yes. Talk. Uninvited. And take the phone away from

a 19-year-old superstar. As she's accepting her first VMA or this. And then publicly apologize and disappear. Yeah. Yes. There you have it. I don't know if you got, I did read, like, you know, it was blasted all over the web and I read some of the comments and they're. Oh, man. They just ripped to the new one. They hate him. Yeah. He got a lot. He is, like, if we were in lynching days, I don't mean in the black, white way. I mean, just like in the old days, somebody did something wrong. Yeah. He'd have pick sporks and flame torches and they would have just, you know. Get a rope. Yeah. But now he just has all the Twitter press he can possibly stand. His name is all over the place. Oh, yeah. Now is the perfect time to drop another album. Exactly. It's that old saying. All press is good press. Title of the album, Apology. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Taylor. He does a, I was just going to say, he does a remake of that song. I'm sorry. You know what? So sorry. That would be, like, the best career move for him. Wouldn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's insane. It's funny how I still remember that. Yeah, yeah. It's like a clinics commercial. Here's the newest track from Kanye West. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So sorry. What was that commercial? Yeah. Was it a clinics? Was it a paper towel or something? It was something that was like a little kid doing. Why are we even going on? Come on, man. I'm feeling it. Yeah. You were sneezing. I'm sorry. So sorry. We're brought to you live by the rap artist Joe Orsack at eWebStyle.com. Well, since we're mentioning eWebStyle, let's go ahead and talk about how to communicate with us. We are on Twitter, so you can find us at Twitter.com slash eWebStyle. You can also get a hold of us. We do have a Facebook page, so you can become a fan of eWebStyle. Please do that. Help us out.

You can do that. The easiest way to get there, I'll be honest, I don't know exactly how to get there directly from Facebook. But you can go to our website, eWebStyle.com slash Facebook, and that will take you immediately to our Facebook page, and you can become a friend. And we're also enjoying all the emails. We're getting all the comments. In fact, we'll be answering one email that we just recently received in the next podcast. Yes, from Sebastian. And that's going to be our 32nd podcast. This is 31. This is awesome. We're just accumulating one after another. Craziness. Amazing how that works. So keep sending. 31 follows 30. Who's a thunk? It's the credit guy who figured it out. Yes, I'm good with numbers like that. So please keep sending emails. You can send those emails to podcast at e-webstyle.com. We do have a quote-unquote viral video on our Facebook page, so make sure you go there and check it out. We'd love to hear your comments on that. We think it's pretty funny. Some of the surveys, market surveys that we've done with the two guys that stopped by the office and looked at it, they laughed. So we'd love to get your opinion on that. Again, that's e-webstyle.com slash Facebook. And we are interviewing Joe Orsak. His website is improvemycreditusa.com. I mean, it's so confusing. What do you do again? I'm just kidding. I don't know. I think it's something to do with improving credit in the U.S. In the U.S. Okay. Again, putting the numbers together, we got it. Excellent. On the last podcast, we kind of ended, and you had a question. So we wanted to let you go ahead and ask that question, and then we'll come back. We'll delve into that question. Yes. I had a question about conversion on the website, and I don't know how much we can get into this, but whether it's just my industry with credit repair and the credit repair kind of having a certain image out there in the professional world of con

artists and scams and all that sort of thing, and there's certainly plenty of that, or if it's just the amount of web traffic that we've gotten, I don't get a huge amount of traffic to our site yet. Going to work on that with you guys. All right. You know, that we just don't convert on our website. I just don't have people go to our website and sign up without me doing anything, without me talking to them or whatever. And so I'm wondering, you know, is there some way we can improve that? We've tried really hard to show the credibility and that type of thing on our website. We have our license and our bond, you know, a click away so that people can see that. And actually the girl who, the company that we're bonded through, like, freaked out yesterday and called us and said, oh, you have to delete the second page with my signature on it because I don't want people to be able to forge my signature. Oh, wow. Yeah, because they're very, you know, to get a bond, you have to go through all kinds of trouble and everything else. And so she was protecting, Her company. Exactly, yeah, which is cool. I was like, you know what? That's protecting the credibility of our bond. Yeah, absolutely. And so I had to, you know, quickly jump on getting rid of that signature page. So that's cool. Okay. Well, so what I would say, you've actually, a lot of our customers come to us and they're like, okay, how do I get on the first page of Google? Because they understand that being on the first page of Google is going to give them traffic. And, you know, in our podcast, if you go through it, you would hear us talk, you know, repeatedly, okay, that's what we do. We're good at that. And we're also going to help you kind of structure your website so that you actually convert that traffic. So your question is very relevant

to us in what we like to talk about. You know, it's not a particular service that we offer. It's just kind of an auxiliary service that most of our customers get. So what we would do is look at your website, and we are looking at your website. It's improvemycreditusa.com. And hopefully our listeners are sitting in front of their computer looking, but if they're on an iPod or whatever, we'll do our best to kind of describe what we're seeing. And we do see calls to action. One of them on the left, you've got, you know, $79 per month, $149 setup, click here to get started. The thinking that I would do there is maybe to talk about what that service does, right? So you're asking them to click there and sign up for a service, and you've given the pricing, but you don't say what it's going to do. What do I get for that? So that would be one thing there. You do get, and I know you get some other responses. So some people, you actually have a chat, you know, a girl with one of the earpiece microphones. Which nobody uses anymore. Or telecom things. But it gets a point across. Exactly. So that's a way that people could chat with you instantly. I know you get some people doing that, right? Yes, I do. And you actually have pretty sophisticated technology. I think you outlined in, Pod, the second interview that we did with you. I think so. Podcast 29, maybe. Yes. Maybe it's 28. Go listen to both. And in fact, if somebody clicks that, it'll actually text you, and you can interact with them from your iPhone. Yes. That's good. So I would consider that, I would tend to consider that, you know, un-action. Regarding your specific question, why aren't people just signing up from the website? I think you're kind of right, and we kind of had a panel discussion, if you will, before this podcast. Your service and the industry you're in, you're kind of bringing credibility to

the industry that you're in. And so people are a little bit leery about, you know, how are you going to adjust my credit? And, you know, credit has this nefarious, you know, kind of black hat, you know, feel to it. So I am going to tend to want to talk to somebody, at least that's how Paul and I are. So I think that probably has something to do with it. And, of course, traffic is incredibly important. You know, if you've got calls to action on your website and you're just not getting that much traffic, then, you know, that's going to kill you. You're not going to get people clicking. I also had kind of a side question off of that as well, which if you guys get emails from this, I would love to, you know, hey, anybody out there that hears this, feel free to shoot an email to these guys, you know, because I'm definitely interested or curious at what the public's view of this is. One, on the question we just had, but secondly, also, I had another person say, if you're not the cheapest person out there, advertising the price may not be the best idea. We aren't the cheapest. We don't try to be the cheapest. We just try to be the best. And so I'm kind of, I don't know which direction to go on that. Do I take the prices off of the website and motivate them to call or, you know, that type of thing? You know, you want to, what's your first thought, Paul? I think, I would say, yes, I think you could, I think this might be an SEO thing where I'd say try it with the prices, try it without the prices, see which one converts better. That's certainly something that you can do. We pulled, we used to have all of our prices on our website and at the recommendation of somebody else, we pulled it all off. Because, and I think, and this would be my tendency, I love the idea

of trying both, right? So we can actually do that. We can arrange campaigns and see if anything happens. If you're not getting much now, then let's just, you know, work on getting them to call. And you're right. You're not about price. You know, you're talking about 100% communication guarantee. And that kind of inherently is, brings credibility to what you're doing, right? Because it's those people, you know, in the last podcast we talked about, your process kind of has 45 days of downtime where you've done something for the client. And there's no particular reason other than for customer service to stay in contract with them. And you do where I'm assuming most other credit companies just wait for them. And what happens is the customer calls them and says, what are you guys doing? Yes. Whereas you're being proactive and still communicating with them. They know you're still there. They know you're still in business. They know you're working on their behalf. Those are high value things that are more important than the price. Yes. You know, so I would tend, it's probably, and of course, if you were to take this step, then you're not going to get anyone signing up on your website. And I think that's probably okay. Okay, what you might want to do, depending on, you know, what direction your company is going is, is maybe even come up with another website that is focused on, you know, what can we do online? Can we sell it online immediately? Because, you know, if you were getting a few and we wanted to enhance and focus on that, great. When you're not getting any, then, you know, what are we, you know, to triple your online sales doesn't mean anything, right? So, you know, probably better to kind of attack it from another angle. I don't know how long you've had, you know, the pricing actually on your website, but those are the things that we would be talking about with you. You know, hey, is that really what you want to

do? And you're right, pricing does, people who publish the price tend, you know, there's a couple, you know, when I'm online and typically when I'm not interested in getting the service, I want to know the price. But when I'm interested in the service, I just want to find the right company, right? And so I get frustrated when I'm not interested in the service, I'm just kind of doing some price comparisons and people don't have the price. And that's, you don't want me anyway because I'm not actually in your, you know, I'm not actually looking to purchase the service right away. So, I don't know if that, I know it doesn't really give you a concrete answer. No, it gives me some information. Some things to think about. So, yeah, and anybody out there, if you've got any ideas, you know, do you like prices on websites, do you not like prices on websites, you know, what you're feeling about that, what's your experience, please send it to us. Again, podcast at e-webstyle.com. And I'd like to see what people say, like what does the general public think about when you're searching for a product or service, how do you feel about having or not having the pricing information? Right. And, you know, from my perspective, anybody that's open to commenting or shooting me an email or shooting y'all an email, I don't care, either way, on just specifically in my industry with credit restoration, what's the general consensus? Is that a field where you would definitely want to talk to somebody before signing up? Would you sign up on a website if, you know, everything looked credible and all that sort of thing? Okay. And then, you know, we could, from usefulness for the podcast's sake, you know, how does that relate? If an industry has an image of not being as reputable, would you, if you found a website that had all its ducks in a row and, you know, presented a credible company, would you do business with them? Would you sign up

or use their service on the website versus would you call? That would be an interesting kind of a thing to see. And I think, you know, I think you can address that on your site. We know, hey, this industry can get a bad rep, maybe write an article or a page. You know, here's things to look out for when you're looking for a credit repair industry. Well, and we often talk about, you know, giving an article away. You could have them, you know, and this could get them into a drip campaign. You know, top ten things to look out for in a credit repair company. Well, check it out. If you scroll down on the bottom of my page, at the very bottom I have five links or four links. And one of them is choosing a credit repair company. And then right below that is how to avoid credit repair scams. Scams, yeah. And both of those are kind of related to that. What you could do, I think, is I like the idea of giving away one of those free and then having the other one, you know, maybe saying, you know, get how to avoid credit card scams with an email, which would get them in a drip campaign. Drip obviously sends them the PDF of it or just the link to your website. Right. Because that's the balance, right? You know, getting them into a drip campaign has value. You can probably even follow the statistics of how many people get in a drip campaign and how many become customers or stay customers, et cetera. So you also, from an SEO perspective, you need to have free information sitting out there. So it would be good to give them this free information, the first one, which is, you know, choosing a credit repair company and then maybe moving on with a, instead of your get started today with the pricing, like we were just talking about having a, you know, get a free article on what to watch out for credit

card scams because then you get their email. Credit repair scams, by the way. Credit repair scams, yeah. Be careful. Watch out. Did you have any, I know you have some more questions. Were there any? Sure. I had another question about link exchanges and that type of thing. That's right. You had a company send you an email. I did, yeah, yeah. Or you have one doing on a regular basis. One of the things that you had talked about, point six, was links. Links, and you said linking is another one of the most important factors in search engine placement. There are internal and external links. You have internal links, links to other pages within your site, but few external links. An external link drives traffic from other websites to yours and also increases your relevancy to search engines and thus your positioning. And so my first question was, well, how do I do that? How do I increase my external links and get people to link to my site? Well, one of the first things that I noticed in this right along the lines of linking is these, I believe your navigation on the top is JavaScript with the rollovers and everything. It may be, but I use a program to create it, so I don't even know, but I thought it was Flash. Or Flash, which both of them are not good because Google can't follow these, especially if it's Flash. I mean, especially if it's Flash, but if it's Java, there's some that it can follow. I wanted it to be pretty. And I didn't know how. It is Flash. So I right-clicked on it, and it says about Flash Player 10. And that's fine. We don't need to make any changes to that. What we really should do very quickly is put, you know, we call it like a link pyramid. You'll see a lot of websites. Yeah. Small little text on the bottom that links to all of your pages. The interesting thing about Google and the algorithm that Google has is you

can, there's a maximum, based on the number of pages you have, there's a maximum amount of link juice that your website can have. And you can never exceed it, but by improper linking, you can be under that maximum. And improper linking would be like, right now, Google doesn't, if Google ends up on your home page, it doesn't know you have any other pages, right? Now, they, because of other links, you might be going back and forth with some other links. They may actually be able to find those pages. But in general, right now, Google doesn't know you have other pages if they get to your front page. If they get, the only other way is if other sites are linking to internal pages. So like on the bottom, we should have a section that did the same thing, in essence, as the top links, but just through hyperlinks. Exactly. Okay. Don't we have that? That's what I'm doing. I'm pulling up eWebStyle. Yeah. And it kind of looks like a pyramid, so it has, you know, nice form as well as functionality. And that's very important. Like ours, our links are actually JavaScript, and we just wanted to make sure, okay, Google, if you have a problem with our little JavaScript, we don't even know, we don't really care, because we're going to have that link pyramid at the bottom. Gotcha. So that is something that, you know, you want to do. I always wondered why companies do that. So that's, that's cool. It's for Google, absolutely. And you'll notice also on ours that the text is relevant to the search terms that we're looking at, right? So it's not our SEO page, it's our search engine marketing page, because we're also targeting that page for people who type search engine marketing. Because see, again, Google reads that link and says, okay, this page believes that on the next page, search engine marketing is the relevant information there. And so then when you get there, you end up on a page that is search engine

marketing, you know, it's the name of the page, it's the, it's the title of the page. So Google's like, okay, this is very relevant to search engine marketing. So, so you want to make sure that those links aren't just, you know, page one, page two, page three, that they're relevant links to the, the information that's available on those pages. Um, so that's that. And this company that contacted you, they were doing reciprocal links, I think. Yes. And you know, that's one of the jobs that we have as SEO is we need to increase your inbound links. Uh, and there's lots of ways to do that. There are lots of free sites out there. There's lots of effort that actually goes into that because we, on your behalf, make the contact with those other websites that have, uh, you know, that are relevant to yours and get links coming back to your website. Um, and, and we, we were talking before the podcast that it used to be that we would have reciprocal link farms and that really, you won't find that on newer websites anymore, which is you might have a, you know, uh, I don't know, relevant links or something as one of your links on your website, which would go to a page in your website with lots of links. And then somebody else on another website would link back to yours. And, and, uh, this is just not that effective because what, what happens is outbound links have value when they go to high value websites. So if you've got an outbound link going to an about.com credit article, then Google understands that relevancy and understands that you're, you're actually in a way adding to your credibility by linking outside of your website because it's such a high credible target website. But if you find a smaller website, you know, something with a lesser PR ranking and PRs just page rank according to Google, um, then, and the, and you do a reciprocal link. Well, Google sees your link going there and

their link going back. It's, it, it, it, it ends up in a situation where it's a, it's a zero sum game. And so there's no real value in doing that. You really just want inbound links into your website and high quality outbound links. So that's, you know, that's, that's what we do. That's, you know, the, one of our goals are to work on, uh, on your on page, uh, processes and on your off page, which are inbound link processes. And when we do that, we're trying to get those inbound links so that, you know, we increase your Google juice, if you will. So did that answer your question? Yeah. Yeah. So you're going to head back and add your, your pyramid today. Yes, I am actually. That's the top of the list. Yeah. It's, it's pretty important. And it's, it's pretty interesting that you can, you can affect your, your website's overall link, uh, capability, your overall, uh, ability to show up in Google. Uh, to a certain point and bad linking can, uh, cause problems, but good linking can only get you to that certain point. So you want to make sure that you're doing, uh, doing that good linking. Um, any other questions? You have, uh, I know we talked about a whole lot of stuff. Anything else in the report? Uh, let me see. We talked about his meta tags, his content, uh, a little bit about his calls to action. I think he has really good calls to action throughout the website. That's very key and most sites don't include those, but you have them, you have them above the fold, which is a great place to have them. Click here to start, click here to get this free credit check, do this, call today, click here to chat. Uh, definitely guiding the visitor, uh, to take some sort of action, um, on your behalf, which is awesome. Those are really good. I like that. I like the overall look and feel the appearance of the websites and biting. It makes

me want to stay. It makes me want to kind of play around and, oh, what you got here? What you got there? That I definitely like. I think your navigation is consistent, um, which is not always the case with people. You know, you click one button here and then their navigation bar disappears or two extra buttons. I was looking at a site yesterday. You click one button, two extra navigation buttons pop up out of nowhere, only for this one particular page. Which is just completely odd. And it was just, yeah, it was his main navigation title. Uh, I was good. I was going to ask you about that on the navigation part because there are sections of our, our page that you get to where, uh, for instance, if you click on services, um, at the top, uh, yeah, that's where you're at. Then within services, there are a breakdown and I have a separate bar that goes at the top of that page. Uh, and that bar. Submenu. Yeah, submenu. Uh, and that stays throughout, you know, each page. If you click, you know, the. What we do. What we do. Yeah, that's, that's fine because you would not need that, that little sub link menu on your About Us page. Yeah. Because, you know, there they're learning about your company history. They don't necessarily need to get the information about the other different things that you talk about because that's service related. It's all related to your services. Gotcha. I really like your, so on, after services, we end up and you've got choices again. Services, again, what we do, how it works and questions. I like the layout of how it works and questions a lot better than this because you're losing this space over here. So I might open that up. Okay. Especially since we've talked about, okay, we don't know exactly what we're going to do with the $79 per month. Right. Same with services. Um, that's where you end up. That's the default page. I see. Okay. So if

they go services and then services, um, yeah, definitely how it works. I love that layout. And actually that's really nice. Step one, step two, step four. Oh no. Oh my gosh. Step four twice. Oh my gosh. Oh, somebody had to prove my credit's getting fired. Graphic designer. He doesn't know it yet because he's not listening to the podcast. The graphic designer is definitely in trouble. I think he's actually on the podcast. Yeah. I'm firing that guy immediately. That's a, I think that's a very powerful page. I think that, um, that the steps that are involved in the credit repair, I think you could actually put that, highlight that on the front page. On the front because I think that might help. Even like here, how it works because it's such a nice, clean, concise, like people, like when you go and look for credit repair service, you know, one of your questions, one of the reasons maybe people have to talk to somebody is because they just don't know how it works. And so if in the top where you've got your images rotating in the lower corner, you're just like, how it works. And that takes them to the how it works page. And you know, that's, that's, that's awesome. And then with, when I'm on the phone, I'm talking to people in a meeting, they always ask how, like, oh, we can put your website on the first page. Well, how do you do that? It's, and they may not necessarily want to know exactly how, they just want to make sure you know. Yeah, they want to know something, you know, if I want to get into, well, this is called a meta tag and we're going to, it all starts when you learn HTML and they don't want to know all of that, but they want to know, okay, yeah, this guy actually knows how to do this kind of stuff. Yeah, we, and we get that in, in our business quite a bit as well. How do you actually repair

someone's credit? Yeah. You know, and ultimately it's like, you don't want to know. Yeah. You really don't. You don't want to know everything you know. You just want to know that I know. Yeah. Exactly. You know, so. I'm not taking notes and going to go do it myself. I just want to make sure I'm working with somebody. They're just hoping you don't say, uh, uh, uh, uh, it's, uh, all automated. Yeah. Yeah, it's automated. Yeah. We'll just put you in and the system knocks it out. Actually, Bob in the back takes care of that. Yeah. He just stepped out. Well, I mean, I, I know a lot about the, the process and everything else. Uh, and certainly, I mean, I know everything from, about it on a conceptual level, but we definitely have our processing department who are the experts. They do it. Yeah. You know, the, the doers that are actually cranking this out every day, but I mean, you know what, just for anybody out there curious because we brought the subject up just to get my little plug in here, you know what credit. Okay. That's enough time. Credit repair is just like the legal system. This is what I tell everybody. Uh, the three of us could go in guns a blazing, you know, waving our guns up in the bank. You know, this is a bank robbery. We could be like the stupidest bank robbers ever. We could forget that we had our, uh, uh, driver's license hanging around our neck. You know, and, uh, you know, and he got business cards. Chris could think one of the bank tells us was cute and he'd be kind of like flirting and like give her his number and like make a smiley face using the little ink pad, you know, for her with his thumb, with his thumbprint, you know, we'd all smile for the camera. Yo, on the way out. We're rich. Yeah, exactly. Money's in our hand. We're like, yeah, on the way out, you know, cops could be

waiting for us. They'd throw us in the car, haul us down to jail. Everybody in the bank knows us. Their moms go to church with our moms, you know, that type of thing. But if they didn't read us our rights, we wouldn't go down for the crime. It's as simple as that. It's as simple as that. It's the law. There is a process that must be followed. Right, right. And if they don't follow that process, the rules, then we're not going to do time for the crime. That's all it boils down to. It's just the same in the credit industry. There's over 300 laws on how they report on your credit. But they have to follow those laws. Right. If they don't follow those laws, shame on them. Right. Right. So I get people that sit in front of me and, you know, well, my aunt's sister's cousin died and we were, you know, we were helping her family with money. And so money was tight and we couldn't pay the bill. And the bill got lost when I sent it in. And I'm like, look, I don't care. I mean, really, I don't. I mean, I feel for you, whatever. Everybody has hard times. But ultimately, I don't care. Right. Because it has nothing to do with that. It has nothing to do with your credit. Not only do I not care, they don't care. They don't care. Why? They could care less. Exactly, you know. So for us, it's just hitting them on, did they follow the rules? Right, right. That's all. We just made ourselves experts on the 300 plus rules, you know, on how they report. And there's also more rules on when they provide you the information. Right, right. When I say, okay, did you follow the rule? And then they reply back and say, yeah, we follow the rule this way. Well, that's fine. You didn't follow the rule when you gave me that information. You violated my rights when you did this, this, and this. Okay. And so

it's just like the legal system in that sense. I mean, that's all it is. And that's, you know, just like you wouldn't want to go into court and, you know, they say the man is a fool who represents himself. Yeah. Same with credit. You know, there's no reason to represent yourself. The man who represents himself has a fool for a client. There it is. There you go. Yes. Both in the courtroom and in the credit repair room, if you will. And they designed the system intentionally to be a pain in the rear end. Right. Because if you think about it from a purely economical standpoint, they make money from the people who report on you. Yeah. Not from you. Right? Yeah. Not from you. And they lose money when they have to interact with you. Yep. Because now they have to provide you information. They've got to, you know, take an employee's time to print something. Exactly. Mail it. So their whole process is set up to be a pain in the rear end. For the end of the year. They want you to go away. Yeah. So, and that's what the effect is for most people. And that's why there's 300 plus laws. Exactly. In that situation. Exactly. Because it's such an important part of life in America now. And they have no real incentive to work with you. Exactly. That makes sense. I'm writing down a note here. Fix step four. So I don't forget. And in addition to that, I think if you could, we gave some good changes. If you could put a link to the steps on the homepage, I think that'll help with your conversions as well. And I know we've said a few other things. I'm just trying to sum up what we just said. I've done a blank. You could make at the bottom of your four-step process, well, your three four-step process, you could take that image. This might be the right place to put your pricing. Okay. So because here's, you've really answered, you know,

they can peruse the website and see everything else. Here you've really answered, this is how we do it. Any way to put any of this into bullet points too might be worth because people will just read, you know, if you've got four bullet points that occur at step one, four that occur at step two, four that occur at step three, four that occur at step four, then it's really concise. And you can have maybe a paragraph related to it, but if they just hit those four points and then at the bottom, you don't have to change your image so that it's, you know, horizontal instead of vertical, you know, hey, get started now. Click here. Yeah. Very cool. So that's where I would probably have my pricing. Very cool. And I think all in all, the one thing that'll have the greatest impact, and this is the same for every analysis that I ever do, is your link building. I mean, I think that's going to have the biggest effect on your search engine positioning. And this is, I analyzed a website yesterday, she had 13,000 inbound links. Wow. Yeah, and I was like, you've got great inbound links, my recommendation, more. Yeah. Because you can't ever have enough. Yeah. You can't ever have too many. Wow, 13,000. I'd put some more keyword-rich content in it and build some more links, and those are going to have the two things that will have the biggest effect on your search engine position. And that will increase your traffic. That could double, triple, possibly quadruple your unique visitors to your website. Yeah, the inbound links, it's not just, you know, great for Google, and it is, it's also a way people can find your website, you know. So do, like, banner ads count for that type of thing, for an inbound link, if somebody puts a banner ad that links to our site? Well, Google says that paid ads are not supposed to count. Okay. Now, Google breaks its own rules, this is kind of a nefarious,

you know, is it real or is it not? Frankly and honestly, it's a very tough question to answer concretely. Okay. So you would think that, you know, if you're purchasing an ad on CNN and you're linking, you know, to Charles Schwab that Google's going to understand that this is a high-quality, high-value website linking over here. And they probably let MSN get away with it. They may let Yahoo get away with it. Their goal, though, is they don't want you to go out and find a very high PR website and pay them to put in the text, Houston Credit Repair, and link to you. They don't want that because they feel like that's manipulating their system. And, you know, it's cheating. That's what we do. We manipulate their system and there's, you know, there's kind of a process that they say is acceptable and then there's processes for manipulating their system that aren't and that would be one of them. Okay. That is not supposed to be. So if I were, I wouldn't do an ad campaign for link credibility. I would do an ad campaign because I think the ad campaign is going to work, right? Because it's that campaign for the two months I do it or whatever, it's going to generate business on its own. Gotcha. So, well, that's it. We've gone a little bit overtime. No charge for the overtime. Four minutes for free. Again, you can reach us at podcast at e-webstyle.com. Find us on Twitter, twitter.com slash e-webstyle. And find our Facebook page, e-webstyle.com slash Facebook. Joe, it's been so great having you here. We've gotten lots of good information. Finally, here at these last two podcasts, you've gotten some good information. That's how it works. Squeeze the interviewer for as much as we can and then throw some stuff his direction. Hopefully, all of that really helps. Hopefully, you'll be a client of ours here really soon. And, again, thank you so much. Joe's website is improvemycreditusa.com. Until the next podcast, my name is Chris Burris. And this is

Paul Hensley. And this is Joe Orsak. Bye-bye for now. Free. Free.