10 Ways to Avoid Negative Publicity by Julia McCoy #489

Hi, and welcome to the SEO podcast, Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Chris Burris, one of the owners of eWebResults. My name is Matt Burchill, another owner here at eWebResults. Welcome back to another fun-filled edition of the podcast. And you can see that Matt is broadcasting from COVID-19 headquarters, or at least that's what the green screen behind him says. My green screen, it's funny, I actually looked behind me and guess what I saw? A green screen. A green screen. I'm not hip to the technology yet. I've got the background, the SEO podcast background. So actually you can, I think if I click here, you can actually see Matt gets the full screen. There he is. I get the full screen with all of my background and then back to both of us. All right. So Matt and I, we are broadcasting from Houston, Texas and Matt and I, we are your results rebels. I wanted to jump into this review. It's a little bit long. As you know, we read all reviews on our podcast, good, bad, the ugly, whatever. This one is from Jared Spencer. You know, it's on Facebook, but you know, even though it's on Facebook, we're going to say that it's five stars. It says, I have nothing but amazing things to say at eWebResults. I own a medium-sized business in Canada and understand the importance of SEO. Some might say I am a bit obsessed. I've used other SEO services in the past who were good, but I was looking for a company that could really take things to a different level. I finally found eWebResults by listening to their fantastic podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jared. After listening to multiple different SEO podcasts from different companies, it was clear EWR were the authoritative industry experts in SEO in North America. Okay. That's cool. He's from the known universe. Since joining them, they have lived up to the hype and I've been extremely impressed with their services. I feel like I've known Adam and

Alyssa for years. They're taking care of Jared, despite only working with them for a short period of time. Their very understanding of our business's needs and are extremely flexible and supportive as we navigate these unique times of COVID-19. They are very responsive, always available, and extremely knowledgeable in the world of SEO. Our rankings for our website and its picture, of course, we'll give them a plug, pictureperfectcleaning.ca in Canada, has a fairly dominant position for the janitorial services key search words in our Calgary market. Search it yourself and take a browse of our website too. Good plug. I like that. And what I know they have in store, it will only continue to strengthen. The co-owner, Matt, also jumped on a Zoom call once and was a wealth of knowledge and... Hey, that's you. EWR is well worth the investment for any business that has acknowledged ranking on Google is important. Well done. Patif, to you, Jared, we really appreciate you taking the time to write that. And I know we've given him some interesting strategies during COVID-19. I think we've even, if we haven't mentioned him specifically, we've actually talked about that business kind of like in a broad view sense. And so, yeah, Patif, to Jared, we appreciate that review. I don't... Should we finish the podcast now? Is that it? Should we just cut the podcast there? We're going to jump into this article. It's 10 ways to avoid negative publicity. If you're not aware, there's lots of ways that you can get negative publicity. And there is a phrase that we... All publicity is good publicity, right? There is that phrase. And so I think if you control it, some publicity is better than other publicity, right? So you can say that. And if you're actually mitigating and controlling what's going on with your own publicity, then you'll do better. You don't have to... Sometimes you can be fighting up an uphill battle from mistakes and we'll cover the mistakes that people have made with their PR. And really, you just don't

want to do that. It's much easier if you don't do that. I want to share... So Jared actually left his review on Facebook. You can find us facebook.com forward slash best SEO podcast. And you can also leave a review. We had to dig a little. So please help us out. Leave us a review. You can go to... So Chris, what happened was Facebook changed the way that doing reviews. So they basically hid like 50 of the reviews. Okay. So we'll dig into those and pull those out. Well, no, I don't even say... I don't even know if we can get to them. Honestly, like they're gone. So you got to leave... Yeah. So you got to like leave them. You can leave them on there. I think it's under like... It's not... It might not be called review. I don't know. It might be called review, but there was like two sections where you could like rate companies and they got rid of one completely. Um, and so there's only one place to review. So yeah, there's like a ton of reviews that we had that are no longer there. So definitely need more Facebook reviews. That was a recent one, uh, that, that Jared just left. So yeah, left it on June 3rd. So like, you know, 12 days ago. So again, thank you, Jared. Go to Facebook, facebook.com slash, uh, forward slash best SEO podcast. And also this is easy to do ewebresults.com, uh, forward slash G plus. Uh, yeah, we know it's an old moniker, but it is an easy way to get to a place where actually literally like the screen pops up and you start typing your review. It's nice and easy. Um, and I think that's it. Oh, please remember to shiko us share, like, follow. Um, and when you do that, you will hear a sound in the back of your head that says, cause that's what shiko sounds like. Um, share, like, and follow, get this out to other people. Make sure you're connected. Uh, if you're

watching us on YouTube, we are broadcasting live. Uh, actually we've got to where Manny Oliveras is connected. Hello, Manny. Great to see you, uh, from Dallas today. That's pretty cool. Um, he emailed me. Sorry, Manny. I haven't got back to your email yet. I'm still working. So, um, so, so yeah, you can actually watch us live and connect with us live on Facebook. Uh, if you're connected with us, you'll get a notification and then you can just pop on and like send a message, send a question, whatever you may have. Uh, if you're on YouTube, make sure that you subscribe and follow, cause both of those are important. One of them is a little more proactive than the other. Uh, and that's, you know, that covers Chicago. Let's, uh, anything else you want to just jump into this article? You know, I think, you know, we can move some of that to the back. Um, I feel like you've been saying that from the beginning of the podcast and it worked for a very long time. And I, I had to slide it in there. Like, uh, you know, you don't want to dig for reviews. You want them to like, you know, hit you in the face. That's, that's as long as they are five stars. All right. So let's jump into Julia McCoy's article, 10 ways to avoid negative publicity. And she really kind of prefaces the whole article. Like think about Wendy's and what Wendy's had done. So back in 2016, that's the burger joint, right? Back in 2016, Wendy's social media manager endlessly posted a meme of Pepe the frog on the computer's Twitter account. Now this seems innocuous. Like who would have a problem with Pepe the frog? Um, you know, as long as you're maybe not talking about frog burgers or something like that. Uh, anyway, what they didn't know, what that social media account manager didn't realize is that Pepe the frog had become associated as a symbol of white supremacy and racism. Um, that's not so good

for your brand. If you didn't recognize that. So we're going to jump into like 10 things that had they gone through this checklist, they probably would not have made that mistake. In fact, really, if they only did the first thing on the checklist, they wouldn't have made that mistake. So 10 tips for avoiding and dealing with bad press. Number one is do your research. So had they just jumped in and typed Pepe the frog and like looked at the current memes, looked at the images just to know, uh, they probably wouldn't have posted about that. I don't, I don't, did you know, Matt, that Pepe the frog was, uh, a recent, uh, this 2000. Well, you know, I've seen Pepe the frog floating around, but I hadn't really followed it. And you know, like that, that's a dangerous move. Like I, I, I, I wouldn't have known that. Um, unless someone explicitly told me. Yeah. So we like, we actually, as owners of the company could have made that mistake, except we also know to do research before, like we, you want to test those things out, but so, so it can happen. And actually some of the tips that we'll get into here today, talk about what do you do when you make that kind of mistake, right? Like how do you, how do you own up for it? Um, it's one of the things they say, do your research. It's okay for your brand to have a fun, witty, even snarky voice, right? That can be fun and engaging. You can express strong opinions to get attention. Uh, but always remember to do enough research before posting anything online. Um, in fact, Wendy's retraction was the person who tweeted it did not know the memes new meeting, uh, meaning and promptly deleted it. So, you know, that's fine, but you're still, you know, want to avoid that to begin with. Yeah. I mean, I, I think that, you know, um, this is not a good, uh, example, right. But I think that, you

know, if you are trying to be polarizing, um, you know, because you can't be all things to all people that, you know, that like you were talking about having a snarky tone, like what, what's the kind of tone or brand kind of outlook of your company. And you do want to be polarizing in the sense that you're going to have really avid, um, you know, like, like community, right. Or followers or whatever. Um, if, if you're, if you're very polarizing, cause certain people is going to cause controversy and this and that. I, I just, you know, I think that for Wendy's, that's not what, what they were going for or trying to do at all. But again, I, I don't think that you can be all things to all people and, and it's okay. Like, I think this checklist is, is good, like general best practices. But again, if you're going to take your, I guess, social media game to the next level, um, you know, you want to, you, you want to be a little snarky and, and, and again, again, this is a horrible example. Uh, but, but I think that if you're in the know of the subculture, um, you know, you're, you're going to be like, so for chance and some stuff like that, like, if you know, what's going on, you're kind of in that inner group. Um, and that, that could be advantageous. You just got to know what you're in the inner group of, or you're just kind of, you know, making a, a faux pas. I think you talk about this in, in your book, right? Uh, um, excuse me, in your Amazon best selling book, build your brand mania, you talk about how you need to have a position and having somewhat of a polarizing position, uh, can get you attention and, and can bring you to the forefront of being an expert in a particular industry, right? Well, I mean, rappers, right. Rappers do it all the time, right? Like they start, they start controversy,

um, or, or something, something like that, the whole, you know, press, if you're in the news, you're relevant to a certain degree. Uh, but I mean, I think Wendy's is already a household name, so they're not trying to, that was not what they were trying to do. Yeah. And, and, and the point, uh, that Julia made is that a quick Google search would have told them, you know, what to stay with and what to stay away from. Uh, so number two is stay away from controversy. So you've actually done your Google search. You realize that Pepe, the frog, uh, is, is kind of the, a symbol of racism, uh, and, and the white power movement. And you're like, let's stay away from that. That's probably a good idea. Um, in fact, in general, this is like the classic things not to talk about a party is not to talk, don't talk about politics, religion, sexuality, abuse, or racism. And the example that she gives is IHOP once retreated a controversial post about Hillary Clinton. And it's interesting that it was just a retreat, but it was like, uh, good morning to everyone except Americans who don't want to accept the simple fact that Hillary Clinton had a major garbage campaign. Like, I don't even know how this one slips through as a accidentally or whatever, just kind of a little bit crazy. Well, I don't think people, I actually typed in urban dictionary cause I, I like to use urban dictionary. Like when there's, when there's stuff that people are talking about, I typed in Pepe, the frog and, uh, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't say anything about, well, okay. So cop sucker, I guess. I don't know. Like, I don't, I'm not really seeing it very highlighted as that, but, you know, urban dictionary is a good thing to, to, to use when there's kind of phrases or things happening. Um, you know, but maybe, uh, maybe it didn't come up on here. Maybe Pepe, that was 2016. So maybe Pepe, the frog

has regained, uh, his socially acceptable status. Well, this was July 16th, 2016 was the last updates. And it was talking about, uh, a boys club comic series, feel good, meme alteration of sadness, anger, Pepe, the frog. And the third entry is how Pepe, the frog went from harmless to hate symbol. There you go. That was October 11th. There you go. There you go. Yep. See, that's why you gotta do your research. And then Pepe, the frog creator kills off the internet meme co-opted by white supremacists. Uh, that was in, in May of 2017. So, uh, oh, he actually, and he won a $15,000 settlement against info wars. That's very interesting. Very interesting. And then there was another one McDonald's. Um, like they posted about, you know, the current president and Barack Obama. Well, you know, you gotta, you gotta think who are you putting in charge of the microphone for your company? Okay. Like, I think that there's people, I guess, are starting to understand the power of social media, but that's essentially a giant microphone. I mean, Donald Trump understands like what he's doing with it, but I don't think a lot of these people, this is like a job to them. And, you know, they're putting, they're injecting their personal beliefs in the, the company stance. And I don't think that there's enough training, I guess, when someone steps into that role of community manager of that, you're no longer you remember, we have to do that with our writers, right. We have to tell writers, right. I remember, you know, a year or two ago, there was this particular writer that you were coaching quite a bit that was writing a little bit more, um, abstract or negative, like just kind of how, how she presented herself. And you had to say, you're not, you're not writing as you you're writing as them. And you got to put yourself in that person's shoes. And you got to have kind of like, what, what's the personality of the brand? Like, what are you

representing? And I think that if people stepped into that role, they would know that this is not what McDonald's or Wendy's or whoever wants to portray that. And it goes to two things. Like anytime you're writing and let's be realistic, even like reposting a Pepe the frog, uh, um, post is, is actually writing. It's presenting content to an audience. You have to know your audience, right. You speak a different voice, you speak a different way, different tones, different messaging. Uh, all of that happens when, uh, when you're speaking, when you know your audience, I think culture, culture is a big thing for companies. Right. And I think, you know, when you get to the 25, uh, person Mark, like your, your, your culture's established. And I think that those values have to run throughout the company. And so, you know, what I'm kind of seeing here is potentially gaps in training is what I'm seeing more than anything else. Yep. Uh, all right. So number three, 10 ways to avoid bad press, uh, avoid stoking the flames. Um, you could also title this, like, make sure you have thoughtful, um, intelligent responses. So the example that she gives is, uh, Amy's baking company back in 2013, they were featured on Fox's nightmare kitchens or kitchen nightmares. Uh, and not long after Facebook page was slammed by Redditors, um, there were angry comments. And then Amy and Sammy Buzaglo, that's their last name, Buzaglo. Uh, I can't even, I can't, like, I'm not, I can, like, I know how, I know what those words say. I'm just not going to think I'll read the ones that I can say. You people are all, can't say that. Yelp, can't say that. Reddit, can't say that. Every, can't say that. Come to here. I will, can't say that, show you. Um, so this would be, I, I think I feel like the epitome of how not to respond, um, in any way, because it's just, it's not good. It's not good. It's very emotional, very emotional imagination. Yeah.

I think it's like, this is something you should like, if this is you and this is how you feel, I really do feel you should write it somewhere. And then we wake up the next day and you probably just delete the whole thing, you know, reread it. Is it salvageable? Um, in this case, you would have thrown it all away and then just start over. And, and Matt and I, we've talked about these, you know, with, uh, particular challenging situations where we're like, ah, we like to bounce the ideas off of each other. Like, is that too emotional? Is there, because sometimes emotion can have a positive impact in, in, in a situation? Um, not in this situation. Well, I mean, I think it's like writing any email, right? Like even for grammar and, um, you know, something like that, you want to write it or like, I'm trying to finish up this book right now, this, the second book. And I'm like, I got to read it. Right. And then I got to walk away and then come back and read. I go, man, I'm making some grammars there that I didn't see. I think that if you're emotional, write it, but don't hit the send button and then have someone maybe look at it or come back and revisit it when you've cooled down a little bit and go, do I want to send this? And what's the impact if I do? Does it represent my brand? Does it represent my brand? You know? And here's the thing that guy could have, I mean, who knows, but, um, I think that he probably potentially regretted it. I don't, I, I, I don't know. I didn't follow the story through to completion, but yeah. I mean, that's Amy's baking company, uh, bakery, boutique and bistro. Um, I don't even remember where it said it was, but, um, yeah, if, if you ever read that response, uh, you would probably not want to go there. All right. Number, which is the, you know, the opposite

of what he might have been intending. So number four, respond to criticism quickly and professionally. So this really kind of fits in the previous and what we were just saying. Um, and, and the quickly can be important. It's more important to be professional. So I'd rather sit on something a day and make sure it's professional, or maybe it's like, if you've got a company that's doing consulting for you. So from a, from a social media perspective, they're consulting for you, um, then at least bounce it by them or maybe one to five other people, depending on how emotional you tend to be. Uh, they've got an example from an Aldi UK buyer. Uh, it's kind of a lengthy example. I'm not really going to make it, read it, but basically somebody replied and it's a really long, here's my breakfast routine. And I did all of this and I reached for a chocolate digestive, right? So I'm assuming that's like a probiotic or a biscuit of some sort. Uh, and then they ended up with just a regular, no chocolate, plain digestive. And because it was such a lengthy response, their response was like very lengthy. Also how disappointing this could be, but also let's not sell short that the plain digestives are also really good. Please reach out to us and, uh, and, and get us your contact details and we'll get you some new packets and a bag of sugar. So, well, so, so here's, here's something interesting, Chris. So, you know, I do believe it's important to respond publicly, right? Um, so other people see how, how you respond. Um, you know, and then I think, you know, a private response is also important too, to, to, to try to solve the problem. I think most business owners want to try to solve the problem or companies want to solve the problem. I mean, I know, uh, when I was younger, uh, you know, if there, if the candy was bad or outdated, one of my buddies got like Skittles and all

kinds of stuff, like a year's supply of like candy sent to them. And so I think companies go above and beyond, but I wanted to ask you this. So like, you know, I can tell you personally, um, you know, from, and I'm pretty decent at hiring and, you know, I was a headhunter for about seven years and grew that business and sold it. Um, but you know, sometimes you hire the wrong people, you know, I hired somebody, um, uh, you know, as, as a contractor and within, you know, two weeks I realized, you know, it was a bad, it wasn't the right fit. And so I let, I let that person go. Um, and then they proceeded to leave a negative review on the company platforms on every platform possible about me personally. Right. And, um, like, so, so again, like, should I have responded to her? Cause I think if I would have responded to her, it would have stoked the flames more than it needed to be. And if there's no response, it kind of, you know, it, it, it dissipated. Right. And I mean, the person was crazy. They were like, after two weeks, they stole the computer and then they got their husband to threaten that they like, like some legal action against me or something. And I was like, you didn't show up. You didn't do anything that you were supposed to do. Like I gave you three warnings, like, you know, like, and I was really nice about it. Hey, the same, not working the right way. I paid them their hours, but they worked and they, they, they just went off. Um, and, and, well, I mean, what's your opinion on that? Because like, I didn't respond at all, even though I probably should have, but if I would have said, Ed, you know, disgruntled employee, you know, or whatever. I think you did request that they take those down and ultimately they did. Is that, is that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't respond. They weren't

adding any value, you know, like one star with, with no, no real commentary. Yeah. Google just said, this is not adding really any value. And it was too far outside of, I guess the bell curve performance. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so I think, yeah, I think, I think that's good one. You kind of, uh, tried to leverage the situation and get them to pull it down. Um, I think it would be worth responding and not from you. Uh, but something, something from, um, it's apparent that there were some personal vendetta in this situation. Uh, we do wish you the best, right? Like, cause if it's, if it's just that, or if you're just explaining it, like you don't want to air dirty laundry in that situation, but if it looks like it's personal and I don't, I don't remember what they had written. If it's just one star, then you're like, um, then you even pretend you don't know that who they are. And you just say, well, there, there, there have people that have left us Yelp reviews that I don't know who they are. Like there's one or two people that left a Yelp review that I actually do not know who they are. And I asked everybody on the team who they were. And I was like, who are these people? So, I mean, like, I mean, we get a lot of good reviews and we get some bad reviews, you know, um, we learned from the mistakes, but like someone like that was just like, in my opinion, like quote unquote bad apple, you know what I mean? Like I can't, I can't not run the business. Okay. Like, like we're, it's not like the government. So they didn't, they didn't air anything and you didn't either, which is good. So they did, they did. They said, I didn't know what I was talking about, but did they air like, Oh, we've gotten ripped off on time and whatever. So they didn't, they couldn't say that. Yeah. Well, they shouldn't really

have said, you don't know what you're talking about. Right. They, they technically couldn't say that. So I would say it's just good to point out, um, uh, something along the lines of this, this was a, uh, uh, clearly a personal, uh, vendetta or personal issue going on here. Um, please reach out to us and we love to get it sorted out. Right. So that at least you've got a comment there. It's not for them. It's for the other people who see it to say, look, whether it's horrible or not, e-web is actually trying to reach out to them and get it sorted out. All right. Yeah. And at the end of the day, if it, if it came down, then that's, that's fine. Like if they pulled them down, then it, you know, that's, that's the, the goal that's, that's actually what the, you know, that, that we would like for social media platforms to do. Um, you know, they're now censoring all kinds of stuff, but that's another, I guess the lesson there is if you're going to leave like a really bad review, at least make sure the stars are in line with their bell curve. So Google just doesn't throw it away. All right. Uh, she does say add a dash of what are human to your genuine concern for the customer. That's always good. People appreciate that. All right. Number five, make them forget by outstanding performance. So this is in the case, uh, the human memory is fragile. Uh, if somebody does make a mistake, right? So you do post something. Um, and, and, and I, I've got one business partner who says a, uh, a great product is the best business model, right? Like ever great value. And that is the best business model. Um, it means no matter how much Brad press you get, there's always, it's kind of like, remember we, we had one particular client while we're airing dirty laundry in this case, actually at one point that three employees, right. You specifically yelled at three

employees and then was like, Hey, uh, I'm going to write bad reviews. And, and internally we're like, look, um, what, how, you know, we'd like to bend over for our customers, bend over backwards for our customers. We don't like to bend over for our customers. We'd like to bend over backwards for our customers. And we felt like we felt like we had been bent over. And so what we basically said is look, look, worst case scenario, he's going to write a bad review. We have, uh, a vast number, what is it? 120 five-star reviews. And so are we really concerned about how much damage he could do, uh, if he did decide to leave a bad review? So that goes to like deliver outstanding performance. And then, you know, on those one-off cases, when you get with people, uh, or people interact with you and they're just maybe a little unstable, um, then you don't have to worry about it. Well, you know, I can tell, tell you with, um, I think two or three of our profit plans, because we didn't put, um, like, uh, uh, a time period, right. Or, or, you know, expiration limit on them. People came back a year later almost, right. Or longer and asked for their money back because they were like, you know, hurting for money. And then they threatened us with bad reviews. Right. And, and I think that, you know, we did give them their money back. And I think that, you know, we changed the language in there too, to reflect what, what we do do. So it was kind of like a learning experience, but I look back on that going, you know, I, I don't think that we should have done that because I don't think that they were acting, um, in good faith. And, and I think that, you know, they were holding us hostage. And I think that that is a bad precedent to set, uh, because you can't be in fear as a business owner of operating your business

of people threatening bad reviews because they were actually like, you know, like almost like what we had talked about internally. It was, there was posts like, like so happy, you know, like after it was over that we could have like posted their response of like what they had said, but then it becomes this public kind of thing. And, you know, it was just like, it's really, you're going to deal with some of those clients now. And then, um, you know, I don't think you can avoid it, but I, but I think, you know, it even goes back to like, it's important to set the company policy and company culture of like, are you going to allow this? Because I think that we were, um, experiencing that for the first time, because that was a new product or service we were offering. And, and we didn't really know how to handle it. And we just, Hey, change the language of, you know, the money back guarantee that there's warranties on it, that it's not like a year later, um, you come back and it was clearly that the businesses were hurting and needed money. But I mean, I, again, I think we're wanting to do the right thing, but not by being held hostage. And I think that as time has gone on, I'm more and more less willing to be held hostage by people that are going to threaten, um, bad reviews. I think that we offer a good product, we offer a good service. And I think that that speaks for itself and that, um, you know, uh, we do need to respond publicly to those things and, um, let, let the aggregation of, of crowdsourced people make the decision for you. If you're, you're doing a good job and doing things with the best of intentions. So, and that does go back to, Hey, have a lot of really good reviews, deliver a lot of value so that if you've got one, it doesn't really matter. It makes it more realistic. I've read

data that said, if you have all positive reviews and you don't have any negative reviews, you know, the, the, the trust factor is, is, you know, could go out of whack. So that kind of sucks. Cause we literally legitimately have 120 reviews, five-star average rating. Like that's pretty awesome. Yeah. All right. So number six, 10 ways to avoid bad press. Number six, don't make promises you can't keep. So this kind of goes to having good documentation behind the scenes, having things thought out. And, and the example that she gave is, uh, there was a Baywatch theme swimsuit, uh, from sunny clothing company. And they said, whoever tagged and reposted their promotional photo would get a free SIM swimsuit worth $65, 3000 people joined the challenge. Uh, and so they couldn't get up so that they couldn't keep up. So that, that left a ton of furious and sarcastic and disappointed customers. Um, yeah, make sure that you can deliver and, and put the, the proper restrictions. Like in our case on that warranty, it should have been, you know, a 30 or 90 day warranty. Well, you know, I think that that is actually a good, good strategy of a promotional strategy to get posts shared, but you got to make sure that the ROI is there. Um, I think that, you know, limiting the giveaways, right. So there was actually recently one that I posted on my personal Facebook, they were given away like a RV, right. And, and they said they were just going to select somebody. Right. And, and the reality is they took down the post before they told you who won. And I think that that would have been like, like legitimate, like the, that they actually like gave it away. Cause you don't know that. Cause they said the person we're going to give it away was Canadian. And then, so they have to be us based. So we're going to restart the contest. Right. But then they just took the content down and they didn't tell us who

won. And so I think, you know, um, how you're doing these promotions, I think the overall strategy was there, but you gotta, you gotta, like, if you're going to gain, um, these people as followers or you're going to, you know, and maybe promotions don't really allow, uh, you to gain them as far as I think it has to be geared towards that. Or even maybe it's like, Hey, download this thing if you're interested or, you know, so, so you got to think through the promotions, but I think that, uh, they should have at least let us know who won it. So it wasn't just like a posting strategy. And then if they take down the post, like all the people that showed, it's not valuable, you know? So, yeah, I think that's, I think that makes sense. Uh, so number seven, stay away from sensitive issues. Uh, again, this is sexist or you want to make sure that you're not sexist or out of touch or body shaming anyone. Um, and they gave, you know, they gave some examples of, uh, of Peloton, uh, and they had a Christmas ad that was, you know, it was apparently not good body shaming. You don't want to. Okay. Okay. So let's like, you know, I, I understand some of these are, are, are, are, could, could be viewed very negatively. Let me ask you this. Let's go back to, um, GoDaddy, right? GoDaddy's ads, uh, in the beginning, right? So they calm down a lot. We're pretty controversial. Um, and really GoDaddy is now, I believe like the market leader of, uh, as a domain registrar, right? And so what do you think about kind of their edginess? Um, and really it was like, like, I always thought those ads were weird because I'm like, that had nothing to do with like registering a domain. Like it didn't even really tie to it. I felt like, um, but it was memorable and people remembered it. Um, what are your, what are your thoughts on that? Uh, well,

I think the proof is in the pudding and like that it was a brilliant marketing campaign because it took a company from obscurity, uh, into, uh, the probably arguably the number one position. Um, if not the number one, then damn close to it. So that it's very hard to argue with results. Um, it may be the case that today's environment wouldn't go as well, right? Like, so maybe there's a lot more concern about body shaming, et cetera. I would think right now it's very with everything that's happening. It's, it's, it's just, everything's on edge right now. Yeah. It's not, it would, it would be considered too, um, insensitive. And so like that might not do well, but let's be realistic. It wasn't exactly sensitive in the beginning and it did really well. Uh, so, so yeah, you know, they went out on a limb, they pushed the envelope. They didn't push it too, too far, too far, meaning they, they failed. Um, and then I think it was after they went public, right. Was that that's when they pulled back or at least they just hit a really big mainstream. And I think they ended up hiring a female CEO. And then she was the one who ended up pulling off, pulling those ads. But I don't think that happened right away. I think like there was a sequence, you know? Yeah. Right. So, but that's a great, like in that case, is there, you know, there's no such thing as bad press. Is that like, is that true? And I think, you know, there's an example of running that edge and, and, you know, we've talked about it in our industry. If you're running that edge, it can be things like SEO is dead, right? You could set up a platform that says SEO is dead and you can get a lot of SEO business by being that contrarian who says SEO is dead. I, you know, a lot of people that are like all the old form of SEO is dead, right? Like

doing a few things and then jumping in the search rankings. So I, I think that where that's coming from is SEO is getting harder, right? I mean, that's, that's really what, what it's saying is SEO is getting harder. Um, and, and really what SEO is more becoming is, is, you know, a multifaceted marketing strategy to create online PR. Like, I mean, that's, that's essentially what it is. That's what Google wants it to be. And it's, it's, it's very hard to just do a few things and then you rank in the search engines. You're not, you know, manipulating the search engines. You're really delivering good content. Right. And so, uh, and in a way that the algorithm understands and how people treat it, like, I mean, um, it's interesting. I just actually was reading an article that was talking about, uh, people sharing articles on Twitter, Twitter's now looking at to see if the article has even been read, um, before it decides if it's going to share them or not. Right. So these algorithms are really getting a lot, um, smarter. Oh, yeah. A lot smarter. The algorithms are improving. So, you know, again, that goes back to your mantra, Chris, you know, we just got to focus on doing the right thing for the user and Google's going to take care of us. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Number eight, don't be afraid to take the blame. So when you receive criticism, avoid pointing the finger or blame shifting, that was kind of like Amy's earlier. Uh, that was like pointing the finger and like firing, you know, bad things at people, curse words. Don't be afraid to apologize to disgruntled employees. I mean, customers, um, the reality is if, if, if, if, you know, they've had a bad experience, sometimes it may not even be your fault and it's, there's nothing wrong with apologizing for it. You know, maybe it's, uh, your company was shipping something and the customer's upset about, you know, FedEx, which is, you know, not your, your, it's not under

your control. Uh, and it can still be good. Hey, you know, we're so sorry. We're, you're having just a bad experience with FedEx. Um, we're happy to whatever, ship you another product or, or whatever it may be. So apologizing is, is a really powerful way to diffuse a situation. No, I, I agree. And I think you should fall on the sword. I think there's definitely instances. I think that, um, you know, where, where we've worked as a company to improve is when people come to us, they're like, you're the experts turnkey, like take care of this. And the education of, you know, domain, uh, like DNS hosting, um, web mastering services, marketing services, like all these different buckets, like emails, right. Like all these tie together. Like, so we've gotten blamed a few times when emails have gone down and we don't even host emails, you know, but we're the marketing company and it's, it's that education and it's that setting, um, those expectations process are really important. And we've been working, you know, on a onboarding document that like references some of these things to hopefully provide that expectation and that insight and that education. But a lot of times, you know, you can get blamed as a company for things that you don't even have access to or control because they need someone to blame. Right. And, um, I think that if they know your character and they know who you are and you know, you're going to take care of it. Cause a lot of times you're like, Hey, we don't even have access to your email. We're happy to look into that for you. We're going to actually need to get the logins, you know, and, um, you know, that does diffuse the situation through education, um, a lot of times, but again, too, um, I have to train the team that if someone's blasting you, um, you gotta, you gotta be that they're, they're going through something, they're struggling in some way. And it's your job to alleviate that pain,

even though it's not your fault. Right. So we've had a couple of conversations with people on our team, Chris, about it. It's not your fault, but it's still, you know, the customer's always right kind of thing. And you just need to educate them and get through it. And then like, like there was a one client that I thought you were talking about, you're talking about another one that did, um, yell at actually Javier, um, at one point. Yeah. And, um, that actually became one of our best clients. And then, you know, it was going to like, got them like a million dollar plus lead and, you know, leaving us a review kind of thing. So like, you know, and also it's such a small world, like everyone's connected. And so it's really, really important to, um, I think put out who you are as your character and then people that know you when they see something like that, no, um, that's not normal. Yeah. That's not normal kind of thing. So, yeah, I think that's, that's really, so that was number eight. Don't be afraid to take the blame. Number nine, be prepared with a contingency plan. Um, so I was thinking about this, like, how do you have a contingency plan? Right. To how do you respond? I feel like this is a pretty case by case situation. Um, so I don't know what are like, what's your feeling on, on a contingency plan for a 10 ways to avoid bad press. Well, I think that, um, the best analogy I can give or the next kind of reference I could give is, uh, when responding to, um, you know, a customer, right. You keep zooming in on me. You're really important. It's like COVID. You're really important, Matt. Well, no. So, so really, I think it's about getting, um, uh, like different advice, like different input. So typically what I say is, um, you know, I, like if someone's responding to a client, they don't know exactly how to respond or the client

asks for something like we set like rules and guidelines, like, Hey, you got to get back to them immediately, even if you can't get the answer back to them, right. Let them know that you got it. And then when you respond, make sure you're answering their question. And like something I like to use. And I learned it a few years ago is something called like three eyes before it flies. So basically have multiple people look at it before you respond. Um, but typically like if I'm not available, um, they'll, they'll go to, you know, our, um, like, I don't know, uh, our brand manager, like brand ambassador and ask him what, what he thinks should be said because he's got a lot more tenure and he knows how to deal with these situations. Um, and to get that second opinion, even like, right. We were talking about emotions earlier, um, to get somebody else's perspective, even when I'm sending an email, you know, Chris, like you and I talk about it, like sometimes like, I'm like, Hey, Chris, I need you to look at this. I just want to make sure, you know, um, it's coming across like the right way. I, that's why I think that, you know, text is dangerous. I do like, um, emoji cons. Like I like, like, I like letting someone know, um, your, uh, like how you're saying stuff because how you're saying stuff could come across differently. And you also don't know the person that you're talking to, how they're going to receive it. And so, you know, I think what this whole podcast is about is kind of airing on caution. And these are certain best practices when you're responding, because you don't know who you're talking to and you don't know how they're going to receive it. You really want to err on the side of caution and like not tell jokes and stuff like that, unless you really know the person. And, and so I think getting a second opinion on stuff is, is probably,

uh, the, the contingency plan that I have is like, Hey, before you respond, go ask this person or this person to, if you're concerned with your response, right? Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. And then finally, number 10, all right. 10 ways to avoid bad press. Uh, again, this article is from Julia McCoy, uh, hire a community manager. So as your brand grows, you have less and less time to deal with feedback. And Matt and I were actually at a, at a gathering, actually my birthday gathering on Saturday on Friday, actually. Uh, and we were talking about, about this particular situation, which is social media, um, in general, organic social media. We haven't seen the ROI on organic social media. We've seen ROI on paid social media, uh, but not on just organic. What's interesting is you need to be doing something. I think we can agree that you're going to have some sort of presence. What's ironic is that that presence needs to be a lot more thoughtful than just, you know, throw in somebody who's, you know, right out of college who happens to know Instagram or whatever at it and not being able to represent your brand. So, so organic social media is this really kind of pull tug and push on like who should be doing it, who understands and can represent the brand. And how much time should we spend doing that because of the ROI that comes from it? Well, I think that, you know, when, when I, I joined up with you, that was probably the first service that I shut down, uh, uh, was because, um, I believe there is ROI in organic, but there, there, how much you have to invest in the brand to get there is not, um, uh, cost effective for most businesses. And typically the like, well, okay. Also the algorithms are changing, right? Oh my gosh, you've got to zoom in again, Chris. Um, but the algorithms are changing and like people are using stock photography and, and that sort of thing.

And it's very hard to post. That's better. I like that. Um, it's, it's very hard to, to grab the essence of a brand. If you're not on site, you're not there. You're not, uh, living, breathing it. It's very hard to do that. I think it comes down to, uh, creating a good content calendar and understand what the messaging is that you're trying to provide and storyboard that. Um, and again, I think that unless you're a bigger brand, um, or that is your growth strategy and you're investing a lot of money into that and other influencers and things of that nature, it is incredibly hard to get that ROI. I mean, I think that really, um, the person that needs to be doing it is typically the person that's leading the company or at, at, at the top of the company that can speak for the company, but is that a good use of their time? Yeah. Well, on the flip side. Okay. Um, you can't, you can't always outsource it. I mean, look, the perfect example of this is Donald Trump. Okay. We have the president of the United States managing his own Twitter and he will not allow other people to do it because he's speaking and connecting directly with his audience. Okay. And so I think that if you're doing it properly, and I do actually believe he does it properly because he can get his message out there around the news media, um, and get his point across. Um, I think it is effective. Now, when you take the microphone and you give that to somebody else, um, it's always not going to be as effective or watered down. There's some blended strategies. Um, you know, we've been testing out some different things. Um, but I can tell you when I post on social media for the company, it's by far gets the best reach and it's the most effective. And I think it's the most genuine. And I think that, you know, if you instill that culture and you have like

a leadership team that, and I think that this is going to change as time goes on, right? Like, I think it's a generational thing. Um, but you know, there are people that are influencers that are making an entire living off of organic posting, on different platforms. Like right now, LinkedIn's where it's at, right? I think LinkedIn's where it's at. I think YouTube's still hot. Um, you and I were talking about TikTok. I think, you know, if you're targeting the younger generation, um, you know, that's where you need to be. Um, but, but again, from a scalability standpoint, if you're selling a product, um, you know, and if you're trying to reach people in mass, uh, it is better to run the ads. You know, I think the flip side of it is, uh, AdWords was probably, and I started off doing AdWords was more effective than SEO and I was an AdWords guy, but, and, but that was when it was a couple cents a click, right? And now the market's been saturated so much that PPC is extremely hard to do. Um, unless you have a really big ticket item, um, because the market's so saturated and people are bidding it up to where it's, it's really not that profitable. Um, and, and there was a certain point where I was seeing a return on ROI with the SEO and, and people coming back and, and, and really you're looking for, I think the, the more educated consumer that's going to come back multiple times, that's going to be doing research and that's a content driven strategy, not an ad strategy. It's, you know, ads are really, you know, for, well, at least in AdWords or for, you know, if you're having an emergency or you're trying to redirect, um, some kind of user experience, if you're running a radio ad and want to make sure you pick that up. But, but I think organic social media, you got to break it down to the platform, what's your intent. And then it takes, it

takes a tremendous amount of effort, um, to do it correctly. And, and, and that's what you and I and, and, and others were talking about is, you know, where, where's that break even point of where it makes sense that, Hey, it's not a ghost town. And I think what we decided on was really that, um, for most, okay. For most, you do want to have some posts up there. Um, they don't have to be as frequent, uh, but they need to know you're in business. It's kind of like back in the day when you had a website, they looked in. So, okay. They got a website. Okay. I looked, you know, I looked at the website. It's they're a legit company. Right. And I think that social media is the same way. I think right now, LinkedIn, it's incredibly easy, uh, because like, there's not this fee, like there is this feed that's being generated, but on the company feed, um, I mean, I guess you can kind of do that on Facebook too, but slow down what you're posting and post better quality, uh, and not quantity. And I think that that's, that's really the key, you know, is posting quality and not quantity. Yeah. Um, you know, and I, I don't see the LinkedIn, uh, company posts cause they want you to pay like $10,000 or whatever to get the advanced kind of platform where you show off your company. And it's crazy. Like Disney and stuff are paying, you know, you know, $10,000, $10,000, $10,000 for all these different kind of, uh, micro sites. But, but for LinkedIn, you do a post, there's not much visibility in it until you really build up that audience. Uh, same thing with Facebook. So you could just have a few posts that are somewhat current, really good posts that reflect what kind of message you're trying to create. And I think that that's probably enough for most, unless your users are actively on social media and you're building a community. And we've discussed actually creating,

you know, uh, a private group, you know, but then you got to moderate the group. Like there's, there, there's a lot of investment that I think is involved in social media, but I think it's very dynamic and it can be very, very powerful if you, if, if you truly invest in it, but you know, it's, it's tough to do that for most companies. So. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's good. So that's a 10 ways to avoid negative publicity. Uh, so that's a really good article. Uh, Julia McCoy, thank you so much for doing that Patif to you. Um, we are going to ask if you like this podcast, we're going to ask that you tell three people potentially share this right now, share this in our, in our comments, share this, uh, broadcast tag somebody that you think might, might, uh, benefit from it. Boom. All right. So that's going out there. Um, that's it, Chris. I did hit enter. Okay, good. Um, and we're going to also say that if you're interested in growing your business with the largest, simplest marketing tool on the planet, call a web results for increased revenue in your business. Business. Our phone number is 713-592-6724. Um, we were filmed live in Houston, Texas at various locations. Uh, and you can find us and connect with us on our, uh, website, bestseopodcast.com recently launched. So, uh, go check that out. And I've already told you how to leave reviews. So I'm not going to irk Matt and tell him, tell you how to do that again. Uh, you guys have made us the best SEO podcast in one of the best internet marketing podcasts on iTunes, uh, from a popularity standpoint, we just think we're the best anyway. Well, I mean, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're moving up in the rankings, right? So I'm going to start ranking us for small business podcast next. So that was kind of the emphasis on the website. Well, and that's really like why we avoided negative publicity. Sometimes that really applies to

a much larger, larger company. Uh, and so we wanted to get that good information out there for you guys. So until the next podcast, my name's Chris Burris. My name is Matt Bertram. Bye-bye for now.