10 Remarketing Tools For Reengaging & Winning The Conversion Ep. 538

Hi, and welcome to the SEO podcast, Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Chris Burris, one of the owners of EWR Digital. My name is Matt Burch. I'm the lead SEO strategist at EWR Digital. Welcome back to another fun-filled edition of our podcast. We are so excited to be here. Actually, I'm a little tired. Matt, I've got to be honest, I celebrated a little last night. Um, yeah. What time did you get home? Yeah. Well, getting home wasn't that bad. I think it was, you know, 11, 1130. Um, there were some adult beverages consumed. Uh, there was red wine at the actual event. Uh, and I did, did, you know, tried to maximize company value in that regard. What event was this, Chris, for all those that are listening? This is the AMA awards in Houston. Uh, we were finalists like this is you in the team that you've got running and making cool stuff over there for our clients. We're finalists for five awards. Awesome. Five separate awards. We won two. Uh, those are right behind me. You can see the one that we had before, or one of the ones we had over at, at, at my office over here. Um, but now I'm holding hostage three of the AMA awards. Hardware over there. We need to come pick that up. Yeah. Look at that. Yeah. Nice job. So cool. Well done. Congratulations to the team. Um, it was awesome. Yeah. We went to, and we went after and one, one was for, uh, branding like three different pieces of content or more. Yeah. Uh, and then the other one was for a SEO local campaign, uh, that we ran. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was pretty phenomenal. And like I said, um, we were nominated for, you know, as finalists for three other awards, which we, which we did not win, you know, and that's, that's all right. We don't, we don't have to win all of them. Uh, we're just going to win more next year. Like that's

all right. That's the plan. The team is all excited about that. Um, and we can get, well, first I want to address, um, uh, uh, your, you seem very comfortable, Matt. You're, you're in a pro you look like you're in a prone position is, is it, are my eyes deceiving me? Well, yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm sad that I missed the AMA awards last night. I, I did tear my ACL and had surgery on Wednesday. So, um, yeah, I am, I actually have a motion machine, uh, working on my leg as we speak. And so that's why the, the computer's going to probably move a little bit for those that are watching. Um, we did get disconnected from Facebook. So we are only live right now on YouTube. Um, but we are going to syndicate this out to everybody that on the regular channels, but, uh, just FYI, we're not on Facebook live when I, on this computer, it wasn't connected or something. I don't know. So I'm, I'm, I'm working, I'm, I'm working with like one leg tied behind my back, maybe not one leg tied behind my back. So not at full capacity, but still trying to get some stuff done. So that, that is funny. And I do see the live now on, on Twitter. So we are in fact, excuse me on YouTube. We are in fact live, uh, on YouTube. Uh, so anyway, like this is, we're excited, got the hardware. Uh, we are a little saddened. Um, we want to share, uh, uh, this was, uh, actually posted on search engine land, um, really yesterday. And it's that Bill Slosky, uh, passed away. For those of you who don't know, he is a heavy, heavy researcher in the SEO world, bringing lots of value to SEOers. In fact, one individual created a website. I can't remember which one. It was one of the publishers of like search engine journal or search engine land. I don't know if I have that here. Um, he actually made a webpage where SEOers

could, you know, um, compliment Bill Slosky. And this was actually a year ago on the fact that, you know, what impact Bill has had on their career as an SEOer, uh, and, and lots of people have gone on there, uh, and, and provide, you know, shared the value that he's done. Um, Yeah. He's super, super technical, a lot of patent based stuff. Like I really like reading his stuff, but you gotta, you gotta take some time to like spin with it. Cause it's, it's deep stuff. It's good. So, um, I mean, he was a, he was a giant in the industry. So it's, it's, it's sad that we lost him. So, Yeah. He was well known for, you know, pulling up Google patents and then working to understand them and explain them to, to people on, on his website, SEO by the sea. Um, so, you know, so sorry for, for, uh, losing Bill and, uh, you know, all our, our, all our regards to the people that he's impacted and his family. Um, and you know, let's, let's get to our article today. This is, um, this is interesting. And we, we talk about this regularly on the podcast where the real value in marketing and specifically digital marketing, probably marketing overall for sure. Uh, and very specifically digital marketing, where is the most value? Uh, the article is 10 remarketing tools for re-engaging and winning the conversion, uh, by Jason Zotara. Patif to you, Jason, this is a really good article. Really. He covers just the 10 tools. We'll cover pros and cons. Um, we've used a number of these, we want this to be a little bit more of an engaging podcast. So, uh, if you're, if you're listening to this on YouTube, um, and you've used some of these tools and we'll kind of prompt you, uh, cause we, we can provide some guidance on some of them, but, uh, if you've used these and you like, or don't like them, you know, let us know in the comments. If you're

just listening on, on, uh, on some sort of podcast somewhere, uh, when you get a chance, when you get to your computer, uh, go to, or pull up your, your mobile device, go to Facebook, go to the EWR digital, uh, Facebook Facebook because Facebook's disconnected. Chris go to the YouTube. Oh, well, but we will post this on Facebook at some point, right? Okay. Yeah. We can cross post it. So we'll, we'll post this up on Facebook, uh, so that you can go there, uh, or you can go to the YouTube channel, you know, and that's also EWR digital, um, and let us know. Yeah. But I think that it's really important to know that we don't know everything, right? Like the digital marketing space continues to change. It continues to evolve. We know how important remarketing is we're proficient in a lot of the tools. Uh, but this guy listed a bunch of tools that I had never heard of or used before or, or a combination of both. And so this is a learning process for us too. Right. And so, um, we want to definitely hear your feedback and hear from you. If you use some of these tools, because we know how powerful remarketing is. And so as we go through them, uh, if you haven't heard of them, no shame in your game. Like we haven't heard of them either. Right. So like, uh, we encourage you to go try them out. Let us know what you're doing. Um, we're constantly trying to find best best in breed tools as well. So, uh, let's, let's jump into it and share some of these great tools. Uh, and we'll learn along the way. Yeah. Yeah. So number one is, you know, Google ads remarketing, uh, for businesses that advertise using Google, adding the remarketing component is a great way to promote your brand to customers who have visited your website before. Um, Google ads help people revisit the, uh, their buying journey wherever they left off with your brand. And we're going

to cut short because like you guys should be doing this. Like this is straightforward. Some of these platforms actually incorporate Google ads into their platform. So like by using their platform, you're actually running remarketing on Google ads. Uh, but this is one that you want to be using. If you're using a platform, make sure the platform is using them. Yeah. It's a great ad network. It's one of the largest, if not the largest. So yeah. Um, pros it's easily integrates with your existing Google ads. Uh, it allows for remarketing across Google devices and their ad network, which is very expansive. The cons, uh, ad frequency become, can become annoying to potential customers. Um, and then with changes in policy for cookies, some aspects are still being finalized as an example. Dynamic remarketing is not yet available on Google analytics for, um, and then pricing is about 65 cents to a dollar 25 cents per click. I think you can get better, better than that. Yeah. It just, it just depends on, on, on a lot of that. Um, for sure. Yep. So that's Google ads. Next is ad roll. This is software. It's called ad roll ad roll offers an advertising platform that helps businesses retarget buyers who have visited their site, but didn't convert. It boasts a cross-channel performance dashboard that allows your marketing team to run ads across multiple networks. Uh, I would argue that the most important networks are really the Google ad network and then Facebook, because that's where people are spending all of their time, Facebook and, and the ad networks. Um, remarketing ads can be used across more than 500 networks, whether users are on a laptop, a phone, Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Instagram, those are the ones that you want to be on. The pros is the, the interface is easy to learn. The ads are easily customized and offer a variety of templates. Uh, the cons customer service can be slow to deliver answers. Uh, it does lack real time reporting. And then the price for this one,

it's based on your website visitors. And for a website that has 5,000 monthly visitors, the price is going to be about 72 bucks a month. Um, and that's on top of the ad spend, right? So, yeah, I mean, they, basically they just make it really easy for you to run remarketing across multiple channels where you don't have to manually set it up. And then they have a nice interface to, to be able to do that. And then they charge a markup on top of the ads to be able to make it very convenient for you. Uh, but, but it is a quick way to be able to run remarketing across a lot of platforms. And that works really great for a lot of people. I mean, I think it's a good, a good service, um, for, for the right situations. So, yeah, absolutely. Um, next really surprised me. So the next tool is MailChimp and you know, we've used this, uh, within the company for individual businesses that we've owned. Um, we use MailChimp as a, as a, an ESP email service provider. Uh, but this, I didn't realize MailChimp actually has the ability to do remarketing ads inside of their platform and it's a pass through cost. They actually don't charge for it. Um, other than kind of those standard monthly fee. Uh, and, and what he points out in this is MailChimp is unique in setting up customer journeys to control the message sent out along the buying process. So beneficial for remarketing are the abandoned cart emails and remind customers of items they left in the cart, uh, product retargeting emails, remind people to come back and revisit items they had previously viewed on your site. So this is really a way, what kind of one place to interface with people, uh, with your customers, getting emails out to them and also remarketing to them. Pros. Yeah. Well, no, go, go ahead on the pros and cons. I mean, I'll just tell you is MailChimp's really stepped up their game. They've really

added a lot of, uh, new tools, new resources. Um, you know, I, I, I think they're doing a great job. Um, and for smaller businesses or smaller, uh, campaigns, it's a great tool. And then they've also added some if then statements and some complexity to what they're doing and they're bolting on all kinds of things. So I think MailChimp's great. Like, I think it's a great, like first starter email campaign, uh, like, like manager. Right. I, at the same point that I agree, um, I do struggle with their, their platform. Um, sometimes it's not the most intuitive, uh, and that is, is impressively really impressively frustrating. You know, I'm a programmer, so I just want things like lockstep and, and, you know, this is where it should be. Why is it not there? Why do I have to go somewhere else? Um, and, and I do bump into that on MailChimp, uh, regularly. Well, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a, you know, it's a legacy tool that they've added things to. Um, but if you know how to use it, you know how to use it. Right. Um, but it is a little clunky. Um, and I'm sure at some point they'll improve their interface. So, yep. Uh, so the pros easy to use with tutorials and help resources available, uh, free for businesses with less than 2000 contacts. Uh, of course that doesn't include the ad spend, right. Built with small business in mind, the cons are it lacks automation for organizing contact database, uh, and it's got limited templates. And again, in terms of pricing, there is a free plan. Um, it's, it's a very cost competitive, uh, tool. And then I don't know, uh, another ESP that we've used is Klaviyo. Uh, I don't, I don't know how much we've used active campaign. I don't know. I don't think active campaign has built into it, uh, any sort of ad process. And I don't think that's true of Klaviyo, but I also didn't think that was true of MailChimp until I read

this article. So, um, so I certainly could be wrong on either one of those platforms. The next one is the first one we really haven't heard of and it's convert, uh, convert flow, uh, convert flow prioritize, prioritizes personalization for customers throughout their entire journey. Uh, this helps target them with the right campaign and email marketing tool to win the conversion for returning customers. Convert flow offers personalized CTAs showing relevant products, uh, to complete the sale. Um, the pros of this are relevant targeting throughout the entire customer journey. It does not require coding experience, the cons, occasional loading delays, which, um, you know, if that's, it impacts your website, that's a big problem. Um, if it's just the, the platform, that's just frustration. You can deal with that. If it's, it's, if it's ticking other boxes for you, comprehensive tools, this is cons. Comprehensive tools can be overwhelming without adequate customer support and it's costly for small businesses. There is a free trial, uh, that free trial carries out to 250 conversions and there's a 14 day free trial for the pro plan. And then the least expensive pro plan is 99 bucks a month. That's 10,000 monthly visitors. So, um, that really does start to incorporate kind of what MailChimp is, is addressing, which is, Hey, not only can we send emails, um, maybe we can do some SMS, uh, and maybe we can do have the remarketing built into it. So those, those ad campaigns tied into, you know, Google or Facebook, but, but even according to this article, remember it's 10 remarketing tools for re-engaging and winning the conversion. Remarketing can just be like, Hey, you made a purchase before I'm sending out an email. So it doesn't even necessarily have to include, um, an ad campaign or an ad platform. Um, and number five, we've all heard of this one, Facebook custom audiences, uh, Facebook custom audiences allows your business to advertise directly to Facebook users who have already interacted with your brand. Um, the pros, it makes your Facebook advertisements more

effective. Uh, it's effective at combating cart abandonment. Um, the cons are a specific to a small group of users who have already interacted with your posts. I feel like this is too narrow of a focus of what Facebook remarketing can be. So it's not just people like you can do Facebook remarketing with a pixel on your website where they visited your website and you're showing them ads on Facebook. What he's talking about here is they've interacted in some way with your Facebook profile, your Facebook page, business page, and now you can interact with them and you might, you might even want to do that differently. Um, but the, the reality is you want to be on Facebook. People spend time on Facebook to ignore it. Well, I, I thought by the title, he was talking about taking your customer list, uploading it, creating a custom lookalike audience, and then running ads to that audience, which works really quite well right now. So, yeah. Um, yeah. And that's a, that's not a remarketing. That's actually leveraging your existing audience and their profiles, uh, to try and get two similar people, people with similar profiles, which, you know, the argument goes and it's a reasonable argument, um, and proves out well, that is somebody who looks like your existing customer is probably has a good likelihood of being a future customer. It, it, it's true. So number six, it is true. So number six is Creteo C-R-I-T-E-O. Uh, it boasts dynamic retargeting advertisements that utilize sophisticated technology. So we're going to get into a couple here that are talking about AI. And by the way, like we, um, this one is one, uh, if you've used convert flow, we'd love to hear, hear about it from you. Um, and if you've used Creteo, uh, if I'm even saying, if I'm saying it wrong, let me know. Um, but we're going to get into some AI stuff, right? So this one, I'm going to skip some of us, a lot of predictive models. They're trying to get the

right message in front of the right person at the right time. Uh, they've got engaging layouts and colors calls to action that will influence the individual consumer. The pros are the algorithm works to increase conversions, right? That's exactly what you're working, looking for. Um, tailored ads support the customer's buying journey. Um, so having not used the interface, what I would read into that is like, you can put together different ads and say, Hey, if all they've done is, you know, visited our website, then I want them to see this ad. If all they've done is visit our website and, you know, liked our Facebook page, I want to see a different ad. If they added something to the cart, I want them to see a different ad. Um, so the, it sounds like a pretty powerful tool, uh, cons there's no free trial option. Um, and the price is based on your ad budget. Um, so they're charging a premium over the Google budget. Well, and, and the one thing about this, and this is really true for digital marketing as a whole is you can really design that, that customer journey. You can really design, uh, the, like what you want someone to see at what point, uh, in the buying process. And you can't always do that or know what's happening with traditional ads. Like that's the thing about digital marketing. That's so amazing is through analytics. And you can, you can, you can, you can tell a story like you could show them this ad and have this offering. And then in a couple more days, show this ad, show it multiple times and have this offering. And then like, you know, a month later show this, right. And, and typically as more time goes by, your offer needs to get stronger is what it says. Like when you're doing a lot of copywriting and I've seen that to be true, but really think about how much through not just automation and calls to action and, uh, figuring out what's going to

get that person to take that next step and is going to be able to do it in a dynamic way. I mean, how powerful is that versus just a static article in a magazine or a static billboard? Um, being able to design this user flow and design that perfect experience for the ideal customer is so powerful. And, and these tools allow you to do that. You know, they're not going to probably buy the first time they come to the website. Um, and so it's all about, uh, that experience after they get familiar with your brand. And that's what we're talking about here. Yeah. After they've kind of raised their hand, Hey, I'm probably interested cause I've had some sort of interaction. Absolutely. Um, number seven fixel again, one that we haven't heard of, haven't used a fixel focuses on remarketing through data-driven tactics, relying on segmentation to ensure your audience gets the right ad to convert. Uh, again, this one does use AI fixel helps you zero in on users with higher purchase or purchasing intent. Uh, the pros are it uses your advertising budget to target users who are more likely to convert. That sounds really good. Yeah. Code menu can be quickly added to your website and painless startup. I looked at their website and it looked like they have the ability to kind of bring in and collect and data from Google, from Facebook. And then by having the pixel on the site, they're also tracking what's actually converting, converting, and then, um, moving dollars towards the thing that converts more, um, cons. It's a smaller population of people targeted through the segmentation method. Um, you know, if they've only visited your website, um, some knowledge of remarketing is necessary to understand the platform. This is a self-serve plan, uh, that starts at $69 per month. So, um, so very affordable. Yeah. Um, next is retargeter retargeter offers three products specific to retargeting audience. First, similar to other tools we've listed, a piece of code goes into your site so that they

can re-engage visitors. Um, also offer search retargeting to reach users who are still searching for products like yours, even after they've left your website. And that just sounds like, you know, a tool that Google has. If somebody's search, visited your website and is searching a particular phrase, then you can get an ad in front of them. The pros dedicated to retargeting, um, CRM and search, right? It says site CRM and search. So you can look at retargeting people from your, your existing client base, um, based on whether they searched and also if they visited your site, uh, it aligns with the latest industry privacy standards. I feel like that's not a pro that's a must, um, cons. It does not offer a free tile. There's limited customer support and the pricing is $1,500 a month per user. So, so Chris here at the end, I do want to talk about, um, cookie list retargeting, um, and really kind of like a, a lot of these, uh, standards that are changing and like the way of the future. So let's get through those, but just remind me at the end, because I think there's a lot coming down the pipe as far as like retargeting goes and some of these tools, um, I would say use them while you can't. Yeah. Yeah. Next is wonder can audiences. I just love the name. That's, that's, uh, yeah. Awesome. It connects data from across multiple channels. This tool creates highly motivated audiences who are likely to convert. That sounds awesome. Um, so it, it offers triggered emails. So again, this is this multi, uh, pronged attack on would-be buyers. The pros are it's omni-channel data collection gives a clear picture of audiences. Uh, it does have text message capabilities. So SMS, uh, one of the most opened, uh, communication channels. So it's got like a 98% open rate. Um, you, that's a great channel to be taking advantage of, uh, the cons that may be too expensive for small businesses. On average, you can expect to spend around

10 K per month. And that leads us to the last one that, that the author that Jason mentioned, and then we've got another one that we'll talk about, um, sharp spring ads. Uh, so this was formerly perfect audience, whether you're looking to target audience. Yes. No, I like this. Yeah. Uh, so whether you're looking to target audiences from social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter, or hoping to win back sales on your website, sharp spring has you covered, um, sharp spring has been bought out and there are a lot more constant contact. So there's sharps, sharp spring by constant contact. And then sharp spring kind of ads is a, is a separate, uh, uh, service. It looks like, uh, based on their website. Um, the pros it's customizable ads. It integrates with Shopify, um, cons, basic reporting and analytics. There's no set of fee and the cost is based on your ad budget. Um, and, and on, on a cost per thousand views, uh, but budget, that's how you, that's a basis. So, uh, so those are the 10. So Patif to you, Jason, uh, this was a really nice article. Um, we're going to add one though. And this was actually one that Matt introduced me to, um, called lead stacker. And I don't remember there's a core software behind it, right? It's a white label version. Um, but had a really good high level. They go high level, right? Yeah. Uh-huh. And so lead stacker and Matt, I'll let you polish up what I'm about to say. Cause I'll probably have some of it wrong. Um, lead stacker is, uh, is a white label version of go high level. They've got some APIs built in it. So it has some kind of native integrations that don't exist on, on go high level. And it really is this platform where you can coordinate text messages and, um, what are called, uh, I think they're called blind voicemail drops. You can actually put a voicemail onto somebody's cell phone without the phone ever ringing. Um,

he was talking about having some improvements from, you know, initial contact from a customer for a, you know, a fortune 500 company, uh, with lots of, lots of volume and they were converting or getting customers to interact with them after the customer had requested information on a, like 6% basis or something. And his process and the process using the software bumped that to like 80%. Um, so that's just, just nuts as bananas kind of, kind of data. And so it's a, it's an impressive platform. Um, and, uh, and yeah, I don't know if you've got anything else to add, Matt. Well, Phil, Phil Laboon, I mean, he's, he's fantastic. Um, funnel builder. Um, you know, like he has a mastermind program. He's in an organization with me. I really, uh, like him a lot. Uh, we're crypto buddies. Um, and, um, yeah, like if you're, if you're trying to get a funnel off the ground, he can get it, uh, up and off the ground in two weeks. Um, really his team provides customer service to go high level because go high level has a lot of different tools, uh, with it. And they're really more of a wholesale, uh, you know, provider of the opportunity of the platform. So I think that's a great, great platform. Uh, Phil's awesome. Uh, uh, appreciate you, um, you know, recommended him, Chris. Um, yeah. And, and then the thing that I wanted to kind of end on and talk about is really like the future of retargeting remarketing. The cookie list future, right? The cookie list future, the cookie list future, right? Like everybody's going to be very healthy. There's not going to be very many cookies. Um, and, and essentially what's really on the rise is like PVV networks. Uh, basically, um, people are okaying that you're giving them your information some way, whether you know it or not. And then they put, um, a tag on the website or a pixel on the website. And then if anybody comes to the website that's in their

network, then they know it. Right. And then you could, you could trigger an email. If they have the email address, you could trigger an ad. Um, you know, and so it's always going to be there, right? It's like, uh, SEO is king or what is it? SEO is dead and long live SEO. Like SEO is always going to be like a thing as new stuff comes out of how to best talk to, um, the machine learning algorithm to talk to the AI. Um, I think that remarketing is so powerful that there's going to be ways to do it. There's going to be ways people's information, whether they give it to you, right? Like it could be on the blockchain and people like give you their information and you can market it to them. There's, uh, browsers that are now being developed where you basically give them permission to show you ads. So there, there's going to be a world of permissionless, uh, or permission based marketing, right. Um, where you're not going to be able to just grab their information, but you know, on all these apps that you have on your phone, on all these links that you're clicking on and QR codes and everything else, you're giving your information out there. So they're going to be able to find it stored in a database. Someone's going to turn around and, uh, package it up and sell it. Like, so I think it's going to be very hard to get away from it. I think the tools might change. I think the approaches might change, but I think that still AI is going to be part of that future. And I think that, um, retargeting is just so powerful. Uh, you should be doing it if you're not. Um, some of these tools are awesome. There's some of them I want to certainly try out and test. Uh, we haven't used everything. We typically, um, go with the Facebook platform and the Google platform as like standard. Um, and that covers a lot of

your bases, but as you build more advanced products, getting into more personalization is what's going to convert, right. And so, um, a lot of these tools will customize that to, you know, button CTAs that you're going to take action on, or they're going to be able to optimize for images, right? Like someone put looking at, um, the ad or pointing to the ad or pointing to a person or smiling, like all these things have like impact and, um, the algorithm test this out and then being able to utilize all these different platforms. So I think these platforms like AdRoll that can aggregate a lot of platforms in one click of a button are really quite powerful. And sometimes it makes sense to, to pay that markup on those impressions for something like that. Um, again, these tools like go high level or MailChimp that are starting to incorporate, uh, more platforms under one roof to make it easier, even on the analytics side, to be able to, uh, see all your campaigns on how they're performing based on per channel in one place. Absolutely critical, right. Um, to have to log into different platforms and to compare stuff, companies don't want that. They want it all on, uh, one dashboard. So I think that, um, the platforms that make it easier to use and also can pull, uh, more tools under one roof and then also have good reporting are the tools that are going to win. So, yeah, no, that, that makes sense. That makes really sense. And, and, and again, uh, it's kind of good that we spent the time focused on remarketing because, um, it, it deserves the focus. Like the, the reality is the best marketing dollar that you can possibly spend, uh, is remarketing. And, you know, um, I've, I've got some, a pet project that I'm working on and like, well, what's the best way for me to, you know, at a, at a low cost do remarketing for this. And so, uh, this was timely to kind of

go through these platforms and, and understand that. Uh, and I know EWR, we've got kind of, if, if you're in business and you're not doing remarketing, um, there are some flat fee services that we've got to get it set up and running for you. And then you just leave it running. And again, that's the best money that you could possibly spend. Yeah, absolutely. There's more we can talk about on that, but, um, yeah, I mean, Chris, I want to actually get an update from you in the future, uh, testing out some of these platforms. Uh, I want to play with someone as well. I mean, there's a, a new sponsor coming on here. I'll let you guess who it is, but, um, I'm playing around with their tool and, um, there's just only so much time in the day, uh, because I've been knocked out here for a little bit of general meetings, and stuff like that has given me a little bit more time to, um, you know, explore some of the new tools and, and things like that. But there was a number of tools on this list that I haven't used that I would certainly like to, to, to use and find the right project for. Uh, but yeah, on the agency side of things, you know, we, we, we run with the tried and true and what's standard. And then, you know, we only make the switch when, um, it really is like a clear definitive winner. But if people out there have experience on some of these platforms would love to hear about them. And we're always trying to improve and stay current. So, uh, please let us know. Yeah. We're not even going to ask for any reviews. We're just going to ask you, Hey, if you've used some of these platforms or what are you doing, um, go to the YouTube channel or go to the Facebook page and, uh, and, and leave some comments and, and let us know what's going on in your world. Awesome. All

right. Is that wrap it up? That wraps it up. All right. Uh, until the next podcast, my name is Chris Burris. My name is Matt Bertram. Bye-bye for now.