62% of searches result in a phone call - Unknown Secrets of SEO E-Webstyle Number 52

Hi, and welcome to the Unknown Secrets of SEO Podcast. My name is Chris Burris, owner of eWebStyle, and you are listening to podcast number 52. We're actually doing this on the same day. He might look familiar, and no, we didn't wear the same clothes from a week ago. We actually jumped in, and we're doing another podcast immediately because the interview was going so great, and we had actually in between. It looks like we got a lot of good information. Listen, we're not going to have any problem with our Gino time limit this time because I don't really have any new news for you. Our news last time was Facebook, Unseats Google, and Yahoo Drop Shopping API. Do go back and listen to the last podcast because this is part two of a two-part series of an interview with Ken Roberts, and he is with SearchMarketingProfits.com. Just to get a little housekeeping out of the way, turn off your cell phone. Oh, wait. You guys don't have to do that. That's only when you're speaking in a crowd. You can stalk us. Stalk us at Twitter.com slash eWebStyle, and that eWebStyle doesn't have the dash. You can also stalk us on Facebook. The best way to find that is to go to eWebStyle.com slash Facebook. You can also, this is being broadcast actually now, it looks like at about 10.05 Central Standard Time. Our normal video podcast is broadcast at 9.15 Central Standard Time every Friday. So tune in for those on Ustream. The best way to find that is to go to eWebStyle.com slash Ustream. That's the letter U. And then finally, we got YouTube. Find us on YouTube. And the best way to get there is to go to eWebStyle.com slash YouTube. We always appreciate comments. We're very generous with our link love. So send us some comments. Send us some reviews. We love it when you go create an iTunes account and then actually submit a nice review about us. And then let us know at podcast at e-webStyle.com so that we can

give you some link love and some appreciation for the kind words that you are about to give us. I am hypnotizing you. And look at that. There's no way. Gino, you can't complain about that. Gino, you can send us an email, Gino, and say thank you for podcast number 52. Because I think I'm, what, two minutes into the podcast and we're going to get right into the meat of some information. At the end, we were doing, we were talking about, I don't even know what we were talking about. Get him to come back. Come back to your, you know, get him engaged and get him to come back to your website for more of what you have. And you call it the three, well, in written English, it's the three get thems. In Texas English, it's get thems. And the three get thems. So maybe just kind of go over that real quick in case anybody didn't hear the first podcast. The first get them is get qualified visitors to your website. The second get them is to get them to take action when they do come to your website. Whether it's buy something, fill out a form, pick up the phone and call, many other things. But basically some type of action. And the third get them is get them to come back for more. And we were talking about the get them. The process of getting them back and then the value actually of getting them back. And, you know, making the point that it's easier to, the best way to increase revenue is actually to go after your existing customer base. And if you design your system, because what we really talk about, I think you to your clients and us to our clients is, you know, what system are we putting in place? You know, people will come to us and say, I want to be on the first page of Google. And you're like, of course you do. Everyone wants to be on the first page of Google. And I'm

the person to help you. Or you can go to Ken, either one, eWebStyle or Ken at Search Marketing Profits. We can help you. And then we look at their website and we're like, you really don't want my SEO help yet. We're not going to be able to do much. In other words, we might be able to get visitors there, but that's where it'll stop. You can only do one get them. Right. Yeah, because we, you know, search engine optimization, it's not rocket science. It takes some time and persistence. So we can get you on the first page of Google. But then if they come to your website and, you know, and let's say we know 80% of the clicks happen in the first three positions. And if so, two of the three positions are competitors who have much better websites, then don't bother. Don't bother being one of the top three. Well, you can't say that. There's always the guy out there who wants to work with the rogue website and goes, oh, he obviously did it himself. He's a small businessman and we're going to, I want to support the small businessman. But, you know, that's not really the market you want to go to. And in a competitive niche, you're not going to see those. Yeah, yeah. Mostly they're going to go, wow, this looks, you know, we were talking earlier. This is about reputation and confidence. It looks like these people have a reputation. I have confidence in what they do. We always say that your website should impart to the visitor the value and quality of service that you give to your customer. Because it should do that because that's what the customer thinks. So you've got, you know, a templated website that's not well done because they can be well done. You know, people are going to go, wow, that guy might get the job done. And it might be good because that's what they're looking at the website. They're like, it's kind of good. And it's, you know, so

our first thing is, you know, hey, let's focus on really you kind of take a step back and you focus on the second get them, which is get them to take action. Because if you've got a marginal website, they're not going to take action. So I was just thinking, have you ever Googled the three get thems and have you even thought about optimizing for that? Yeah. In fact, it's, there's a handful of people speaking the same. Yeah. The basic typo along the same lines. So like Wrangler Wrestling, there's three rules to Wrangler Wrestling, the three get thems. I say that. I went to the rodeo last night. I don't know. So a lot of people, a lot of our listeners probably don't even know about the Houston Rodeo. It's the second largest rodeo on the planet, I believe. The first one's, I think, in Alberta, Canada. Now I sound like a rodeo expert and I'm not. I saw Black Eyed Peas last night, which is a really, it was an awesome concert. But, you know, I'm not, you know, I didn't grow up, I grew up in kind of pretty good sized cities, not on farms. You know, I have an uncle who has a horse and whatever. The Houston Rodeo is amazing. I mean, it's just amazing event. The, you know, it's amazing to be in the stadium when, you know, they're actually doing the bull riding and they're doing the bareback bronco riding. And that's just really cool. Have you heard of mutton busting? Yes. Unbelievable. And they even, like, made fun of it as they're announcing it. It's the only sport where you can strap your child to a farm animal and call it a sport. Right. And call it entertainment. Basically, they take, like, I think it's five-year-old kids. Five to seven-year-old kids. They throw a helmet on them. They throw, like, a rodeo vest, because, like, bull riders have vests on them. And they set them on a sheep and tell the kid to grab onto the wool of the

sheep. And then they shoot the sheep across the field. And the kids are holding on and slowly sliding off. It is unbelievable. And then the kids, you know, they land on their head and they're all twisted and they stand up and they're crying. And they're going, yay! And crying at the same time. It's really entertaining. Anyway, so that was a total digression on promoting Houston. In fact, my sister-in-law from New Jersey is in town. We took her to it. She's probably going to bring her whole family the next time to rodeo. I mean, it's that. It's a lot of fun. And it's great for kids. We're going this next weekend. Yeah. You're going to have it. Do you know who you're going to see? Are you going to see the concert? No, it's going to go into the livestock. The livestock area. The hands-on. I mean, it's huge. So there's 70,000 people watching the rodeo and the concert. And then there's like another 30,000 people outside at a carnival. There's a full-size carnival and then livestock show and they've got art shows. It's really, really an amazing event. So, you know, look it up and come see it. It's pretty awesome. We'll throw in a little bit of Houston love there. Maybe we did hit that 10-minute Gino. Sorry, Gino. Damn. You called me on that. So I wanted to talk. We were talking about, is this, yeah, that's 52. So last time, the three Giddums, we kind of covered that. We were really focusing on the last ones, just get them to come back. There's a lot of value in that. It's about dialogue. It's about having some sort of engagement. And you mentioned a number of times, phone calls. And I think that's probably underrated. I think there's a... Well, I was getting ready to say something you might want to try if you don't have, and not already, is that most people at the web, they're saying, okay, we can migrate to people placing orders online. Give us their credit card, and

they're, you know, cha-ching. We look at the screen. And we're making money. Right. Like that, wasn't it a Super Bowl commercial where they, so they open their online business, and they're all, they're like the whole group of five people, and they're standing around, and it goes click, like one order, and they're like, yay, and then it goes click, click, and there's three orders, yay, and then it starts rolling out orders, and they got 10,000. It doesn't work that way anymore. No. You know, it's a concerted effort and a long campaign to get you to the point where that dial is spinning regularly. It's a business, and I love this story, and our listeners have probably heard it before. I got a phone call, and a lady says, I want a website. I want to be making money 24 hours a day. Okay, and I was like, as nice as I could, I said, lady, if it were that easy, I'd never make a website for anyone else. Right. Because it's not that easy. Each thing you do is a business, and it requires a marketing plan or at least an action plan. Maybe you don't have to formalize it, but you've got to have, okay, I'm going to market it this way. I'm going to advertise it this way. I'm going to make sure customer service works this way. I'm going to make sure the product gets shipped. Everything's a business, so. Right. It all needs to be done on purpose. Yeah. Testing even needs to be done on purpose, but it all should be done on purpose. Something that I see a lot of companies moving away from or not doing as much as they should is having somebody make a phone call. Yeah. Because statistics show that 62% of people that go and search the web for something is followed with a phone call. People that are either not encouraging to give us a call. Right. Even to place an order, where normally they would do it right there. Give them that option.

Yeah. You're leaving money on the table by not giving the option to call. Now, some people have told me, oh my gosh, I've got to answer the phone too. I've got to do all this other. If you can't, you know, there's different things. You can bring somebody else in to answer the phone that takes orders. There are services out there that are answering services that will do order processing for you if you have, you know, if you're talking about volume here, if you can't answer the phone. But I can promise you, if you're not giving it as a viable option to place an order, even if it's not just give me your money order, but sign up. Right. You're leaving people on the table if you're not giving the option to call. So, because, you know, we've been in computers for so long, it takes us like 10 seconds to fill out a form. There are people who aren't that good at typers, who are uncomfortable in general. Or don't want to give their information because they're thinking, I'm going to garbage up my email account with things I don't want to happen. So, they're apprehensive about that. And so, yeah, I never thought of that, of having a phone call as an option to sign up even for a white paper or whatever. Now, the 62%, you say, what was that, 62% of people follow up some online? 62% of people that do a search. Right. Okay. Result. It culminates in a phone call. In a phone call. Wow. Just think, well, think about it. I do this, have to do this a lot of time. I have to take a step back and say, okay, what do, what do I do? I mean, just as a human nature, when I'm not thinking SEO marketing and I'm, I got to find this, I need to go find this. Product or whatever. Yeah. Long, long apart or whatever. I'm just like everybody else. I go out there and I'll do a search. Right. What do

I do? Eventually, you make a phone call. 62 people out of 100 prefer to follow it up with a phone call. Instead of just firing off an email or whatever. That makes a lot of sense. So, wow. So, we used to, and even I started some kind of small businesses that I've shut down. Actually, one, it was online PC parts. And in my head, I was thinking, I want to set this up so I don't have to answer phones. And I kind of knew in the back of my mind, that's not a viable option. You know, you think about companies that. Well, we think it could be. Because that's what we were told. That's what we were like. We're sold, yeah. We don't have to answer the phone any longer. Yes. You can start a business with a webpage and make money 24 hours a day. There's some viability to that. Yeah. It does increase. And now, if you went to say, I'm not taking any orders online. And just phones. And you have to call. Yeah. You know, you're cutting yourself short, too. Right, right. Because those, you know, in that case, you know, 62% of the people, they may make a phone call and then prefer to order online or follow up with other research or whatever. So, yeah, it's a business. And you think about the businesses that really succeed, you know, and do amazing things like at Dell. You know, and Dell's internet technology. I mean, the value that Dell brought to the table was all of their capability on the internet. You know, being able to search and being able to go into a business and say, you're the boss and he can place an order, but the boss has to approve what, I mean, they have all these technological systems in place. And I promise you, you can get a Dell person on the phone. You know, we can pick up the phone right now and talk to somebody. So, you know, don't dismiss that. Another very good company

that's a very good example of this is GoDaddy. Yeah. They've done an extremely good job at this in, you can do everything. Now, they're also a master at upsell and cross-sell, which sometimes ticks me off because I'm ready to, you know, just check. I just want to check out. Okay, no, I don't want that. I don't want that either. I don't want that either. Yeah. I don't need all this other stuff. I want the domain. So, you have to, you know, but anyway, that's another conversation. The bottom line is they have the ability for you to pick the phone up and call. And go through the whole process. And they'll do it for you without a hassle and they're happy to do it. And there's some times that if I'm doing something else, I will call. Yeah. Because I'll, you know what, I'm having to do this. I'm going to let this person do it. Handle it. Right. For me. Yeah. I think I had an issue with a secure socket layer certificate with GoDaddy and called somebody on the phone and actually got results immediately. So, yeah, you're, you're, that's a great example. I wanted to get in. We were talking about, I mentioned blue one-arm widgets and, and the fact, you know, if you've listened to the podcast, blue one-arm widgets was something we said, you know, look, getting on the first page of Google is easy. Uh, and sure enough, blue, if you search blue one-arm widgets a while ago, uh, we were first, you know, first because no one else is talking about blue one-arm widgets, of course. Uh, and then we've dwindled down and I was searching, I think it was last week. And if you put it in quotes, we're still first, of course, because no one is searching for blue one-arm widgets. Um, but if you just search without quotes, uh, we're, I think we're like page three or something. Um, and, which most of the world searches, most of the world, unless you're in the marketing business,

you're not smart searching with quotes. Yeah, most people don't search with quotes. That's actually very, very true. Uh, and, and you were telling me that the process, and this makes sense, the process of, uh, of not, no longer being on the first page is because there's no, first off, there's, you know, we always talk about backlinks. The only links I've got are internal and we're going to talk about internal and backlinks here in a second. Um, but I don't have any external links coming in, um, which kind of beg the, I've heard this before. Is there a difference? I've read a quote once that Google doesn't differentiate between a website and a web page so that if you're on your website, it doesn't know that you're linking from internal. You just happen to have a lot of control over internal linking versus external linking. What's your kind of thought on that? They, they, they know. I mean, obviously they could know, but do they take it into account, do you think? Well, absolutely. In fact, because of, uh, you know, well, first of all, the search engine is a machine and a robot. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, when, in its bare form, it's going out there, it's looking at a web page. Right. Okay? But, well, it, it's no longer the, the case of, I want to rank for this keyword. Right. Okay? Okay? Now, yes, that can be done, but that's not where Google's head. Or, when I say Google, I'm talking about the search engines in general. Okay. Yeah, the major search engines. So, it, it, it's, it's theming. Right. So, what they're looking at is they're, they're looking at this URL that has these pages, and, and because of their LSI, uh, algorithm, they can actually read pages the way a human brain reads. Right. It's not, it used to be years ago, you could do, uh, some, some. Rudimetry, yeah. Like, actually, black hat, uh, uh, not good stuff, where you could put keywords on a, on a page, but had, but

basically had nursery rhymes, and just put your keywords in there. Inside the nursery rhymes. And you would, you would rank. Right, right. Okay? Because they weren't able to read the page, they were just looking at the, the, the, uh, the percentage of it. Specifically keyword density, in that case. Okay. And now they're making a lot more, they're like, okay, this, they, they understand this doesn't make sense. This is a nursery rhyme with crap in the middle of it. Right. Yeah. Exactly. It's, it's, it's garbage. But, so they're, they're looking at your page that you have up. They, they're, it, uh, and they're looking at, at it in relationship to the rest of the pages on your, your site. That's why a client, if they're, uh, uh, let's say, uh, car wash. Right. And they, they have a, a bunch of pictures of, of my, my dog and my sister's dog and their cat and look at my paracrete and all that. Right. It's going to skew the theme. Google's not going to know whether you're a pet store or a car wash. Right. And they're not going to know what to do with you. Right. And you're, you know, you're, it's going to be an uphill battle. So you want these, take them off. Right. Create another domain that says, here's my pets. Right. Right. Okay. If you need that, but if you're focused on your business, it needs to be focused on your business, related around your business. Excellent. Okay. Okay. And that kind of goes to one of the things that I say is like our job as search engine optimizers is to provide a good experience to a Google user. And if a Google user is looking for a car wash and they end up for whatever reason on a page with the owner of the car washes, you know, pets on it, you know, that may be interesting to the owner and all of his family members and he may have a huge family and I don't care. And that's that

in that case, you know, if it's been optimized that way, the optimizer has not provided a good experience to the Google user and therefore, you know, eventually Google's algorithms, if they haven't, and you're suggesting that they have, they're going to catch those up and say, look, this is not valuable to our users. We don't like what you're doing and they're going to penalize you. So if you've got a business that does, oh, I don't know, let's say search engine optimization and IT, you would recommend that they actually have two separate domain names for each of those or is it okay to... Well, it's still, there's still some relationship there. Because it's technology or whatever. But in the LSI concept, it's still, it should be segregated. Right. Okay. You're not going to... On the same page. Right. You're not going to start mixing in, you know, obviously within a conversation of the page, if it... You can link it that way, yeah. ...talking about in a conversation. Right. But you're not going to, in a conversation on a webpage, talking about a car wash. Start talking about pets, yeah. Where does a dog and a pet, you know, unless we wash pets too. Pets also, yeah. Okay. That's the little run right next to the car wash run. Right. That would be different. Right. But, so, you can have them both on the same site as long as there's a real relationship and it is distinguished and the SERPs can actually see the distinguished line of the relationship. Right. Okay. That's... This is all awesome information. Let's see. So, in general, you say yes. And I read this. We were talking earlier about the, you know, page rank being a reference to Larry Page, which is pretty cool. That's in one of our early on podcasts, maybe like podcast seven or something. And so, one of the things when I was reading about the Google algorithm, the point was made that your internal linking structure, there's a maximum value that a page on your website can

have and it can be damaged by internal linking structure, but obviously, there's a maximum. So, internal linking structure can't get you beyond that maximum. And it refers to, you know, in general, the page rank is, and I don't know if this is Larry Page Rank or, but in general, there's an algorithm which says, if I chose a random page from any page, what is the likelihood that I end up on this page? And that's kind of page rank. Right. So, you can construct your internal linking, and you were saying earlier that with just work on internal linking structure, you can have some significant effect on search engine placement. So, that's internal. So, it does seem to, and then when you go external, so I guess what we're saying is, on internal link structure, make sure you're doing it right, and if you don't know exactly what doing it right is, give one of us a call because we can, well, we'll help you. But you want to make sure that that's optimized and is done the best it can be, and then start working on external links, right? You mentioned citations, and it's actually something that I haven't really read anything about or heard anything about. Do you want to talk a little bit about how it's not specifically backlinks, but it's actually just kind of referential or the kind of, I guess, coming from the LSI algorithm, it's understanding what you're doing. It's, well, first of all, you know, the SERPs are out there, they're listening to the conversations that are going on. Right. And when I say the conversations, they're reading web pages, and there's a conversation going on in its bare form. Whether it's good or bad, it's still a conversation. And traditionally, you know, as any of you that, you know, understand SEO, I'm sure you've heard, you know, you have to have backlinks to your website. We need to get backlinks to our website, whether it be through articles, blogs, comments, press releases, videos, whatever it is, you need some

backlinking to your website. And that still is the strong basis. A core component of the search engine. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, you have your on-site ranking issues that you have to work with, and then you have the other site, which is your off-site, which is the linking, the conversation. Right, right. But something that's new that is coming into play now, and especially people that are in very competitive niches, it can make a difference for you. Is that the new conversations being listened to now is not just a link that has anchor text with your keyword phrase that's coming back to some page on your website, but a citation has no link at all back to your website. But let's take your business, eWebStyle. Right. Okay. How many eWebStyles? You had mentioned maybe there's three or four of them. Yeah, I think there's probably three. The two majors, there's us, and then there's something in Australia that they don't do what we do, but they're an eWebStyle. Okay. So, if in your post, in your writing that's done out there, you would say eWebStyle, Houston, Texas. In other words, there's some way to pair information together with your name that relates back to us. Is unique to us, yeah. Yes, unique to you, and a lot of times your name and address, some form of that, because the SERPs can relate it back to your website. It's our entity, yeah. Without any link whatsoever, and that's where I see us actually going. It's at some point in time because the SEO people are so used to jockeying the SERPs in that, well, let's get more backlinks coming back. All we need is more, more, more. And that's still driving the train. But as their algorithms get more sophisticated, they're actually able to sit without any links right now. And actually, it works right now, okay? So, you've had some experience where you've just kind of done something. Oh, it's fully out there. It's fully working at this point. Awesome. And where if you're able to write

in the way that that relates them back to you, so they're able to distinguish e-web styles in Houston, Texas. Right. As long as there's not any other e-web styles in Houston, then you would maybe actually stick your address in your writing. Right. So, it's specifically us if there were another e-web style. They're able to relate that back, and so that is equivalent of a link. Yeah. Wow. Without actually a link. Interesting. So, and it makes sense because right now you have this sense that everyone's kind of, and it'll lead to a new gaming of the system, a different type of gaming of the system. But right now you just have this sense that, you know, okay, so I go through and I clean out my blog. People make comments on my blogs. And the standard comment is, and I'm in charge of a couple of blogs, actually. And, you know, the standard comment is, wow, what amazing information. I'm going to bookmark you and come back in and visit you. Awesome. Keep it up. That was the most interesting article I ever read. And it's, you know, they're posting that about, you know, a database entry that I have on my blog. And I'm like, okay, I know you didn't read it. You know, it's totally unrelated. You're just looking for a backlink. In fact, yeah, you're looking for a backlink. So, I delete those. So, there's this kind of sense of gaming. And we did a podcast, probably about four podcasts ago, where we were talking about, you know, if you're going to put comments, you know, there's value in comments. At least we believe you. Maybe you can comment on that. You believe also there's value in comments. As long as you can tie it back and if they allow you to do backlinks and control the anchor text, even more value. Now, but if you're going to do comments, make sure they're valuable and they contribute to the conversation. And, but you get the sense that, you know, okay, so now we're,

our job is just to sit around and write blogs. And that's a lot of what we do, you know, write blog posts and get backlinks. And, but really the larger value is coming from, and, you know, this is true from a long back, from the articles that you're writing, you know, there's often talk of link baiting. So, writing powerful articles that people are going to use and link to. I want you to comment on this. We transcribe our podcast and post it up. And, and it does get some, some traffic. Is there something more? Because I, because we literally, we transcribe it. I break it into three sections. So, I, I can have three kind of powerful titles. We use WordPress in the blog. And, and I think there's value in that. Is there something more? Because there's part of me, like, I think we probably, and I just don't take the time, but I probably should include an image in that page. I probably should have some sort of external link going somewhere. Or, classic SEO, am I, am I really hurting myself by not making that extra effort? I probably want to get the Gino factor out of the beginning of it. If we just pull the Gino out, then it'll help. In Syria, actually very seriously. Interesting. Yeah. Because there's a lot of news and stuff. But, because it's confusing. Where the weight, where the weight is going is, is the beginning of the, of the article. It doesn't mean the rest is, is, is dead or you're not going to be paid attention to. But, typically, the beginning of an article or. . . Is there some sort of summary or guide for it? Yeah. Right. Or even if you were to, to, to, to shove, shove something before the Gino factor. It could, it could, it could, it could have. . . And, you know, I end up breaking up my podcast into three sections. With 30 minutes, Gino complains about the first 10 minutes. So, the first section blog

post is, is, is that, you know, that section you're saying, maybe we even trim it out. And then the next two. So, maybe my more powerful titles should be on the second two. Because they're going to be more relevant information. That's a great, that's a great tip. We'll, we'll certainly incorporate that. But, wow, you're here, you're getting awesome information. Thanks, Ken, for coming today. This is awesome. We've got, actually, we're a little bit over time. And I, that was my last question. Did you want to say anything more? The, the three Giddums, searchmarketingprofits.com is Ken's website. How, if they want to email you, do you have an email that you don't? Just, go, go to the, go to the site. Okay. I have a contact form right there. And I see all, I see everything. Everything that goes through there, too. Okay. So, you know, I have everything that, that comes into the, to the main box. Also, I have my, I have my, I have my, I have my eyes on it, too. Okay. And you, just a little background information. You were in Atlanta working on the, on the business where you retrieved data from damaged hard drives. Uh, and then you've moved to Houston and you're in Houston, you've been in Houston for a year now, but, uh, and you're originally from Houston. Right. I, this is, this is where I grew up. I spent, uh, you know, a little over 17 years in, in Atlanta, uh, your traditional brick and mortar business. Okay. Uh, was approached and, and bought out, uh, seven years ago and our whole, we had a full blown SEO department in house. Uh, and so what I did is, is, you know, after, well, we hung around for another year and, you know, you can only do nothing for so long. Right. Or you're going to go nuts. So I took the whole department and I said, well, we've done an excellent job for, for our company in itself from, from a marketing standpoint and a few

other companies that we are close friends with that we did, did it for. Right. Let's, let's turn that into a full flown business. Let's, and it's, and it's, and it's been fantastic. It's, it's, it's been a great ride and, and it's not even begun. Yeah. Well, search engine optimization is, is just going to keep on growing and it's going to keep on getting more diverse going into local is changing the game. I think we may have discussed that briefly, uh, cause, cause now it's not just national terms or, you know, one local, you can actually do all sorts of local campaigns across the whole country. So there's a lot of opportunity. Um, you are listening. This is, this is, we're actually done. We're a little over time. There is no charge for extra time in our podcast. I just want to let you know, I'm sure you guys appreciate that. Um, this is podcast 52. You are listening to the most popular SEO podcast on iTunes. We appreciate your listenership. Uh, we appreciate your comments, podcast at e-webstyle.com. We appreciate your reviews and Ken, we appreciate you for coming and joining us. It's been fun. We'll probably, we'll probably have you back here in another six months or something just to see where you're at and see, uh, what's new. Cause it's been very informative. We've gotten some good information. Again, Ken's website is searchmarketingprofits.com. Uh, I am Chris Burris, owner of e-webstyle and Ken Roberts with Search Marketing Profits. Thank you very much. This is the end of podcast 52. Thank you for listening. Bye-bye for now.