Episode 529: Interview with Billy Gene of Billy Gene is Marketing #529

Hi, and welcome to the SEO podcast, Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Chris Burst, one of the owners of EWR Digital. And my name is Matt Bertram. I'm the lead strategist here at EWR Digital. We have an amazing podcast for you today. We don't have guests very often, and this is an amazing guest. You guys stay tuned. You're going to really enjoy it. We want to talk a little bit first. We're sponsored by Ahrefs, so we've got to do our due diligence. And our due diligence says, well, let me get the script here in the right place. It says, Ahrefs Webmasters Tools is a powerful and free tool. Ahrefs created AWT for website owners who can't yet afford a marketing budget for a professional SEO tool, but need organic traffic to their website. Almost 300,000 people signed up for the AWT the last year since the product released. All of them use almost half of Ahrefs product functionality for free. Matt, I think we're getting a little feedback from yours. Maybe turn your sound down. Seriously, at $0, not even a credit card is required to sign up. That's always a plus. Tech Radar said that AWT makes SEO more accessible to others. It's an amazing tool. We use it in our office and are proud to be sponsored by them. I would just say for free. For free. For free. All right. Check it out. Ahrefs, AWT. All right. All right. So let's jump right into it. We're not going to do any more of our formalities. We want to jump into this. Today, we have none other than Billie Jean. And we're going to say Billie Jean is marketing in case like that whole tie doesn't, doesn't, if just the name Billie Jean doesn't resonate with you. I bumped into Billie Jean at Affiliate Southwest in Las Vegas. I was able to have a great conversation with him and was like, hey, like let's hook up on the podcast. This is going to be a lot of fun. But my team

and really Matt exposed me to you even before that. Matt, why don't you talk a little bit about how we first encountered, and by the way, this won't surprise you, but how we first encountered Billie Jean. Yeah. I'll say, so let me set it up. So, you know, we got, you know, a team of like seven people crammed into a space, crammed into a space, literally like working on tables and like TV trays. And like, we're just like making it happen. Okay. And we're all sitting around, you know, and we're, we're doing Facebook, we're doing Google, we're doing SEO, we're doing whatever. And then all of a sudden, okay. You know, what, 2017, the Wolf on Wall Street, like parody, like paid advertisers, the Wolf of Paul, paid advertising comes on and everybody like, is like, what the heck is going on? Everybody crowds around and like watches this video. And like, it just blew everybody's minds. And like, from there on out, like, you know, like it was just Billy Jean, Billy Jean, Billy Jean. And like, that was when at least for me and my team, you like really came on the scene. And it was, I mean, it was awesome. So we, we are excited to have you. I know a lot of teams watching. So. Why don't you just talk a little bit about that? Hold on. I gotta, I gotta say thank you for having me. Let me, let me, let me say thank you for having me. And I appreciate the intro and the opportunity, like you say, you guys don't have many guests on this. So, you know, I don't take that lightly and I'll make sure that we spit some hot fire. Also too, in regards to the wolf video, I'm glad you guys found it insane. Cause people either love it or hate that shit. And that's what that is. It's designed to polarize. Well, I mean, tell, tell me a little bit about like, you know, I've, I've heard a little bit about your backstory,

you know, and, and, you know, be willing to share whatever, whatever you like. But I, I'm curious, like, you know, where were you at in your life? And when you were like, I'm going to like do this, you know what I mean? And, and was that like the first really big video? Cause you've had a couple others, right? You know, you have like the, uh, James Bond type video, you know, you've done some other like big, big videos, but I'm just kind of curious what was going on with you, like right around that time. And, and how did that change? When I decided to be stupid enough to do a parody of that? Oh, I mean, you know, getting to the industry, what was going on in this digital marketing? I lived in my parents' house. What was going on is I was embarrassed. I mean, like no, no one's excited. Like you go out, you meet people and people ask that question. Oh, where do you live? Oh, who do you live with? You know, there's, there's this couple that cool, you know, you know what I'm saying? So like, you know, my drive came from getting out of a situation. There was no like change the world, like impact, all this stuff like there is present today. I'll keep it 100. Like in the beginning, absolutely not. How could I be thinking about the world when I was trying to figure out how to survive myself? That was, that was a challenge for me. I couldn't think anything else. But then how to, you know, fast forward, how do crazy ideas like that happen? Is I love to study. I love to study. And in regards to me, I was educating people on entrepreneurship. So what is the most mainstream messages that was out there? And it was the Wolf of Wall Street. And we don't really get too many movies about entrepreneurship. You know, you got like a major blockbuster, like pursuit of happiness. And I've done some things in that nature,

but the Wolf was like the biggest. And so as opposed to me trying to garner or fabricate attention, I was like, yo, it's already here. Let me just do our own version. And then it just became a thing. Matter of fact, when I walked, when I walked into the office and I told the team, I have this idea, like we're going to do this and modify it. Everyone was like that. Wow. That sounds stupid. But like nobody was feeling it, but I just had a gut. And then, you know, you know, me and myself, Paul and the video team, we just went to work and just, we did it all in like four days. Well, you know, and what I would say about that is like that, that like idea, you had to fully commit to it and fully get in character. Right. Like if you're like, you couldn't do that. I had lines. I had to remember lines. Like it was, it was, it was just because it's like, I, I think it just showcased like, like who you were and what you were about. And like, it just opened everybody up to you because to, to do something like that, you just had to fully commit. And like, if it was half done, you know, I, you know, like, I don't think it would have had like the impact, but you just like, I mean, you just were like, boom. And like, we'd never heard of you before. Nothing. Like, who is this dude? And like, it comes out of nowhere. Like I am the man, like, look at this. And it's, it's, it's, you know, it's passive. Like, you know, it's going to work or it's not. Literally while you were given the keynote at, at affiliate Southwest, I was taking some pictures and sending them back to the team. And they're like, is that Billie Jean? And I'm like, yeah, that's Billie Jean. So that, that is, that is really awesome. Got to ask this. Was that your, is that been

your most successful video? And right. You could define that a couple of different ways, or, you know, there's a lot of people say, Hey, is it, is it the, the simple cell phone video? That's a little bit better. Cause it's real or the high production value that you put into that. Talk to us a little bit about what's been the most successful for you. Yeah. I think you nailed it. Right. What's the one, how do you define success? But I think the way that, you know, for the sake of this podcast and just life in this case, did it make money or did it not? Is it paying these bills? Are we balling because of it or not? And for the wolf? Yes, it was, it was very successful financially. I don't know. The damn thing was probably saying like 50 million times or something like that. And probably, you know, generated some kind of multiple seven figures. I, you know, I look at it as an asset, right? You know, most people you say, what are you investing into? A lot of people will say I'm investing in the real estate. You know, I invest into video content because it's not, it doesn't take as much money to get into that game. It took me a couple of days and I've been, I still use that video today. Like there's still funnels. We'll incorporate it in just like people still use real estate as they, you know, a profit producing, you know, asset, right? Like same. So to me, that, that whole thing is, it's just a better investment in real estate. I don't assign no paperwork, no contracts, no messy stuff. I ain't worried about it going down. Matter of fact, if it doesn't work, I just turn it off. You know what I mean? There's no risk there. Going shit. I lost the first half of that question. Chris. So which was, so what has, so how valuable that was it? Great. Yes. Yes. Awesome. And then talk a little bit about

how that's such high production value and maybe there's a risk reward, right? I think a lot of people are intimidated by video because they think it has to be perfect and that can get expensive or just even seems expensive. And then like talk about, Hey, just crank out something on a cell phone. Well, almost always profitable in regards to the lowest cost per lead, lowest cost per cell. It's almost always the ones where it's either a cell phone or a single cam. Yep. Like one per almost all, even today, like that Wolf one, it was good. It was good because, you know, it, it made sales, but that's more of a brand play, right? Like here we are, you know, five years later and we're, we're talking about that video. That was for the brand quote unquote to be remembered, but for the money, it's like the combination, right? And I would say 90% of our ads are here or single cam and just talking to the camera. Simple as that, you know? But I do think you need to mix in like the big productions every now and then just to be remembered. No, I mean, we, we probably about two and a half years ago, we were just seeing, you know, Facebook live was being big. YouTube live has become big. And we were just seeing like the data on videos and we actually started our own video production team to do that. And then we were mixing it in with like the video, the video testimonials with the phone, right? Like are just the most powerful because they're genuine. They're honest. They're real. You don't have that big production, but yeah, I think the brand play makes a lot of sense because like, if you're, if you're putting together about us video, like, and you're a bigger company, you need that production component to it. You don't want that on the phone, but you want the genuine responses to be, you know, completely genuine. And, you know, the data is like three

to one almost, right. As far as like engagement and that sort of thing. But yeah, I mean that, I think that that at least, at least in my mind, that put, put you on the map as far as like a brand play. And then anything else you put out, there was enough attention to like, look at what you were doing, right. And like the different kinds of funnels. And, you know, when you came out with the little, you know, poker chip, right. And I mean, one of my team members brought that in and we're like looking at your funnels. I mean, so it was, I mean, I, I think that that anchored, right. The, the, the brand. I think you're doing like a band thing. Like you were doing a band thing. Right. You know, and that, that was cool. And like massage empty. So, so yeah, I think I, I like the wow factor. Right. And, and certainly the entertainment, like when people listen to you and like get to know you, like you're hilarious. Right. And like, you got to be able to you got to keep their attention. Right. Like, can you, can you maybe speak to a little bit of that as far as how, like how important that is. I mean, when you're copywriting, right. Like just when you're copywriting, like if you can't get past the headlines, you're never going to get into the meat of the article. That's where like the time has to be spent to like grab them, you know, at least from, from what I've seen, I'm curious. And it's an educated, execute, but I think there's another angle that I kind of want to throw in there too. Yeah. Of why we go so hard on video and just this whole style and the word is competition. Like I am very aware that we are not the only marketers in the world. There's a lot of extremely intelligent ones. You know what I mean? Like that are fantastic and do an awesome job. And

anything that goes with a funnel is like, you can put something out there and you can probably wait about 60 minutes before somebody else is testing what you do. And especially even writing copy. Everybody thinks that's the golden ticket. The problem with copy is you can copy and paste the second you put a joint out there. If it's, if it's just words that are protecting you, virtually anyone can do it in the fastest time ever. The videos are moat. The videos are. Yeah. Like how in the world are you going to copy that wolf parody? How are you going to copy the, the body language and the structure of dah, dah, dah. Like, you know, that is all the moat so that the competition can't do it. You know what I mean? So that's kind of like, for me, when I think of brand, it's like, how can we create something that nobody else can touch? And the truth is every part process is replicatable, but the content, the creativity, that's a lot harder to do. When I think, I think also with you in the video, right. As the face of the company, as the face of the video. And, and, you know, we kind of touched on a little bit of authenticity. And that's one of the things that Matt and I really enjoy about this podcast is because we get on, we've got like a zero edit policy, right? One, cause you know, you know, probably better than us editing is a black hole of time. Like you can spend like eight hours and go good. I've got 30 seconds ready. Let's move on to the next 30 seconds. Right. And so we get a zero edit policy and that authenticity really comes through and people make that connection. Cause it really is a lot more about the, about the connection. Now you said something at affiliate Southwest, actually it was up on, on the board. And basically you're saying you smile by selling them crack. Now tell me about your personal

history with crack. My personal history. I've never touched crack. Of any sort. But yes. And in my presentation, like, that's a great example of like, you know, my real job is I'm an educator and teacher. My passion is that I want to educate people who feel like they don't got a shot. You know, that happens to be a lot of minority communities at times. And me being a black man, like that's very important. And so whenever I'm presenting in a video or whatever, I obsess 90% of the video or the presentation about how am I going to make people laugh and smile and like not be able to turn their head the whole time. Then I go into the content. The content part is easy. Like the actual teaching thing. It's actually making somebody care about it. So when I even come onto a stage, like affiliate summit West, I look at the speaker wall and I see who's speaking, et cetera. And you know, maybe sometimes figure out what they've done in the past. And I try and figure out what's everyone going to do. Perfect. I'm going to do the exact fucking opposite. Yeah. Right. Like, you know, so if I'm in a speaker, I'm like, Hey, a lot of people are coming up here. They're talking motivation. They're going to use these sides. Great. I'm going to double down on slides. You know what I mean? And then in addition to that, it's okay, I'm going to present something and teach them. But what are the, I like, I'll spend more times on my jokes. Yeah. So that they're open to receive, you know? So my whole segment there was about like, everybody's getting so freaking surgical about conversions and clicking this button and this split test and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, the only thing that you need to split test is does your sales page make people laugh or not. And it sounds so. Oh, go ahead. Oh, no. Just one of the things that, that, that I have heard

you say is like the number one thing, like in funnels and, and Chris is by the way, running a ton of funnels. Okay. For, for another business is the offer. Right. Like, like that's like all the, all the surgical stuff that you're talking about. You know, AB test, the button color, all this, like, these are all marginal things. Like you really want to test something, test the offer. I think it was another podcast. You're talking about, a client that did like pink boxing gloves or something. Yeah. And it was exactly. And it just killed it for him. Like, you know, the gym space, hella competitive. Everyone has a two week trial. Who cares? But they're like, we're going to give you free boxing gloves and they're pink. Why is this? Like, because most of the time when we miss them cost per leader sell, and we're like turning off a campaign, it's, it's because we need a $10 cost per lead. And it's 30. Like you need a 300% increase in performance. You cannot get that from a freaking change of a color or like a little tweak. It has to be, if you want a 300% change, you need to do something 300% different. I tell my team that all the time. Like, like literally if it sounds anything like we're not, it's not going to work. It's just a waste of freaking time. Like we have to switch it. That's my whole thing. So I obsess, obsess about offers. That's how you guys got the USB is like, um, you know, at the time, a free book, a free plus shipping books were really popular. And I was like, yeah, that's cool. But I don't really feel like writing a book right now. So, uh, I'm just going to put all my shit into a USB. Right. Like continuous innovation. All right. And get it all right. Because the USB is a great way to deliver at a low cost. Everything. And you have a fun story about that USB. Yeah. Like this

is, this is so ridiculous. So probably about 2017, 18, somewhere in there, uh, we're sitting in the office. We're going to move forward with this free plus shipping thing. But at first I was like, yo, let's just run an ad and tell everybody that I'm going to give them my best performing ads of all time. Just to opt in. Fuck it. Let's just email it to him. Who cares? So we test it and we do. And it sucked. Our cost per lead was high. It was like, and I was, you know, that was one of those moments where you bang your head against the wall. Are you kidding me? This is the best offer ever. Yeah. This is great. How do you not know this? We opted in Billy. Just so you know. We actually did opt in and we, and we were one of them where you can go back and look at the list. We did opt in. So, so, okay. We started, so we do that digitally. Right. And then I flip it and I go, fine, let's upload all this to a USB. So now you have to wait for it in mail. And then let's say we're giving away and people just have to pay the shipping. Our cost per sell on the free plus shipping was dramatically less than our cost per lead. And we were now making money. So that campaign flew. And it's just something about the physical. The truth is most people don't value information, right? Like this group right here, we value information. We represent, you know what I mean? When you're going mainstream, no, it's learning. You know, my shout out to my guy, Vince Reed. And he always brings up a good point that we laugh about, which is if you're in the information space, you just sell work and nobody wants to work. Like it's like, take a course. That's not a hook. Another, like I'm, I was a crappy student in school. Someone tells me to take a course. I'm running.

I'm ditching class. Like take a course. I got a five-year-old. What course you think I'm going to take? Right. It's work. So I really had to kind of step back and just like rethink a good offer and put myself in the framework of that customer and anything that sounds like work or time ain't it. And it's part of the reason why three years ago, we started giving away all our courses for free. Right. Like when we were just like, once we had brand and list built up and we're like, Hey, just take all our courses for 30 bucks, 2 million bucks that month, just giving away that stuff. But the reason why I did it is because I won. I wanted to reach more people. And I just got back from an event with Tony Robbins. I was all in my fields. But the second component was, man, this industry is going down in flames in regards to coaching. There's too much competition. I did a course for a, who was it? LinkedIn learning or something in there in Santa Barbara. And I'm like, man, LinkedIn learning's in here. You got Udemy, full of steam ahead. You got everything on YouTube. Barrier to entry is super low. Everybody's coming. I'm like, this shit just, it's not, this is not a thing. So I'm like, as opposed for waiting for this whole thing to burn, I'm going to light the match. And I'm just, I'm going to, I'm going to torch it. And so, so we did, we got, we got ready to the courses. And then we just really focused on selling support and access, which are really hot buddies. What I've found that, that that's interesting, kind of like in that same timeframe, I felt like people did want something physical, because they could be like, I have this value in this thing. Right? Like I, I want, like if it's tangible, I got, I got this book or I got this, this piece of value here and I'm going to go set it

over here. And I'm probably never going to look at it again, but I got it right there. Right. And, and, and the biggest thing that we've found and, and you, you even hit on it earlier in, in your presentation is getting someone care to take action. Cause like people know how to lose weight. People know how to do digital marketing. And then if you go in and like, look at their stuff, like, you're like, you know how to do this. We just had a conversation, but you're not actually taking action and you're not, you're not doing it. And so, you know, that's exactly why we just switched a few years ago. Take the information, pay us to help you implement. Yeah. What is it like, what, like what is the data point you've seen on, as far as if you've given the information, people that actually use it, like it's like 3%, 5%. I mean, I don't even know. Honestly, like it's low, but also what's low is that people pay for the information that people to lose it. Unfortunately, like, you know, it's, it's just work and it's easy to deprioritize. You know what I'm saying? Like, so like our big thing that we sell is our weekly coaching where you're on a call with us. And then over the years, the message has changed to every single week. I'll teach you a new way to get customers. And it has to be that symbol. And we just go through the week and we say, this is what you do. Here's the ad template. Here's how to do it. Now go and do it. Even with that, we'll still have a lot of people not do it. You know, the big, the biggest thing that, that Chris and I have talked about for a while and that he's done a really good job at is, you know, he, you know, like we've invested in a lot of like education. We do a lot of self-learning and we, we love to teach as well and

kind of open up the book on like SEO, like it's kind of black box and like, here's how you do it. Here's what you need to look for here. You know, full transparency. And, and we, we can do it for you. You can go do it. Like, you know, like people think that the people that are going to go do it on their own are always going to go do it on their own. Right. And then the people that are going to need help, always going to need help. But, but the biggest thing is like the accountability, like having like the accountability of, Hey, I'm paying for this thing. Like just like orange theory, right? Like I'm paying for this thing. I'm going to get billed. If I don't go like, it's going to be a little bit painful. Let me have an accountability partner to make sure I'm doing the things that I already know that I need to do to keep pushing it forward. Right. And that's what it sounds like. Uh, you do a really good job offering. Yeah. And then even to like, for anyone who's like a course creator, I'm a teaching site out there. Um, where we do get outstanding results is when it is a week by week training from A to Z. So like, Hey, we're going to build a table together. And in week one, I'll mail you the parts and explain what everything is. And week two, we're going to put the leg on. Then week three, the other leg, week four, the other leg, the A to Z from start to finish with the dangling carrot at the end is the best way as a teacher hand, like close to nothing. Like there also to, um, you know, people appreciate it. They just get the most value. So like, honestly, all of our thing has focused on a 16 week certification and, you know, we rented out the Padre stadium for our graduates. That's how passionate I am about it twice. We're doing it

again next, next year, but that is the focus because people have just been getting the most freaking wins and coming through. And then you also see them in the accounts receivable side and our serve classes. We collect like 97% of that money. And like people are finishing and having incredible transformations. I'm like, this is it. Screw all the other stuff. And I just delete stuff. Like every now and when I think about scaling now, I'm just deleting stuff left and right. If it's a pain in the butt, if it's not working, if it's taking too long, if people aren't feeling, I just, let's just stop doing it. Go do something else and figure out the thing, you know? And what, what, uh, you know, there's one piece to just marketing, right? And then there's another piece to marketing and delivering value. Right. So, so we're helping you, your, your team, our team, you through training us through actually kind of executing the, the SEO services and some paid services. And when you positively impact a business owner, like it just, it just like the creative part is, is amazing, right? It's a lot of fun to make a, a Wolf of wall street parody, right? That, that you had a blast doing that, no doubt about it, but then to turn around and that's bringing customers and you're delivering value to those customers. Like, like we're, we're just so lucky to, to kind of have put ourselves in the position we're in to have the marketing skills to kind of go out there and, and recruit people that we get to help. Like, yeah. And like, that's the thing too, is we're not afraid to get our hands dirty. I've been for seven years. I've had a call on Tuesdays where I'm training live, me in person, seven years of consistency. You know, that's like more of our back end. People don't see that as much. Cause we don't promote it that much, but like we show up, like we're out there doing the work,

screen sharing with people. We probably build more ad campaigns with you. I don't, I can't even begin to count, but like, I think it's important, you know, and a lot of people are afraid, like, you know, I think we have this very much like, as you start to ascend in the entrepreneur world, everyone tells you like, you shouldn't do that. Let somebody else do it. And I'm like, Oh, how about if I just enjoy doing it? You know, like, what if I enjoy working with my peoples, you know? So that is one of the advantages of success, right? As you're looking like, okay, I know that may not be high value, but you know, I'm going to do it. Right. Like there's hobbies are often not high value also, but no one will say you shouldn't have a hobby. Yeah, that's fine. That's good. And it builds brand, you know, like the more front facing that I have with people, like it builds a true brand and true loyal fans. Cause you know, a lot of people have followers. Few people have a relationship though. You know what I mean? Like where you can actually, a lot of people have followers. Few people have influence, meaning that you can promote something and it actually goes off and sales. You can say, let's do this, go vote, go chant. You know what I mean? Very few people have that. Well, you know, to do the burning questions that, that at least, you know, or comments, I don't know, want to get your input on, but you know, like having the, like you can't do something that you don't have like passion about. Like, you can't like be upset. Like you've got to be obsessed. Like, you know what I mean? Like I, I, I'm like addicted to SEO. Like, honestly, because you guys should do our SEO. Yes, we should. I don't know. I don't know anything about it. Yeah. Well, the thing is I can make a change to a website and then Google re-indexes

it. And I can see what impact that had and how that formula laid out on that link. Right. And so, you know, looking at, at whatever client it is, using a certain methodology and going, all right, if I make these changes, you know, there's tons of different variables involved, but if I make these changes, let's see how that all stacks up again. And then there's a reshuffling of Google, and then you can see how that had that impact. And then you make another change and you see how that reshuffled and you kind of test things with variables. But, but it's that kind of like, you know, there's some instant gratification or a little bit delayed gratification, but, but to that, but you're, you keep seeing that, that, that work or that success. And then, you know, it even feels it when, you know, your, your work, like, I guess this plays into my other question. So, I mean, certainly speak to it, but it seems like nobody was ever trained on like marketing. Like if you're not a marketing company, so many entrepreneurs are like focused on the product or they're doing this or they're doing that. And like getting customers is how you shape the business. Like the, the funnel flow of new clients coming in, you can build the operations of the organization to, to handle that flow. And like, what's the first thing always cut? Like we, we, we saw it with COVID hit. Like what was the first thing that most businesses cut? First line item. Boom. Let me get rid of marketing. I was like, no, that's when you need to amp up your marketing. Okay. And, and take market share, you know? And I don't know. I just think that sometimes people have, well, and I'm talking about two different things, but some people have a really different view of marketing than what, what the value that it creates is. And then other words also, you know, and I understand that people want to run their business, right. And

they want somebody else to do marketing, but, but, but marketing drives everything. Nothing happens till something, gets sold. Like nothing happens till something gets sold that, you know, you need to have a good product, but then like you, you got to build that machine, you know? And I, I know that that was kind of two different concepts, but I wanted, well, I resonated with everything you said. I don't know what the question was, but I do everything you said. I agree. I agree. He did say he was going to speak the truth. Yeah, I agree. Yes, bro. No, no, I just, I wanted to make sure to get those things out there because, you know, sometimes you get, you get so involved in certain things and you, you forget what you're going to say and you want to make sure to like, get, get certain messages out there. And I just, I think that you want to be from the market, if for the marketer standpoint, like people ask, well, what should I do? Right. Like if there are people that we do a little bit of coaching for here and there, and it's like, well, what are you doing with your agency? It's like, do you like Facebook ads? Do you like SEO? Like, what are you most comfortable with? Same thing with business owners. Like, what do you feel most comfortable with? Do you feel most comfortable with in your sales process, kind of enhancing your sales process on the email automation side? Are you in front? Are you comfortable in front of, cameras? Would you rather just be SEO? Do you want to be the face of the company? Like, these are all factors that you have to consider when, when you're doing the marketing. Yeah. But, you know, I think too, like to chime in there is I think some people overthink that question. And I think the question that everybody, especially small businesses, right. That we serve as a CEO every day, everybody should wake up and say, how many

people am I going to ask to buy today? And who is it? And do nothing else, but ask those people to buy. Because we can get so caught up and I've done it, building a website, changing a logo. You know what I mean? Like having internal strategic meetings, changing a button color, changing a button color. And then you realize like you're, you're doing it in WordPress and it doesn't actually have the hex code. And so you're downloading a plugin now and dah, dah, dah. And somebody walks over and they're like, what's going on? You've been doing this for 90 minutes. I'm trying to change this code. Like what the freak? Right. What, what are you doing? So like, and my thing, you know, even with our team and our, I've changed our daily metrics, right? Like when we send them to very simple, how much money did you make today? As a result of your actions, how much money came in? Cause it's the only thing that actually drives everything that we do. So like, if you're a CEO of a company, your time should be made, you know, especially in the beginning phases of just asking people to buy your shit. There is no other job. Now you can do that by calling people. You can do that on knocking doors, but the only thing you cannot do is wait. Yeah. You cannot sit on your heels and wait for something to come, pick up the phone calls. So for me, I try and just do a blitz on every given, any given day for every employee. I think about like, even my customer service team, they're going to get X amount of inquiries. Awesome. They can upsell those people under this. They need to be making offers. Our marketing team, we're going to run ads on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. How many people are going to see it? Cause that's how many people are going to ask to buy. And I don't run any advertisements heavily that don't ask people to buy my shit.

So I'm making offers there. Then I'm going to go speak on stage and I'm going to ask people to buy my stuff. I don't do anything else, but ask people to buy. And that's why we grow because we are obsessed with that core singular component. And then we're even missing opportunities. For example, we're not asking people to buy via SEO. I have no clue how to do that. I'm missing money right there. So I just LinkedIn, I should be running LinkedIn ads. We did in the past. I haven't done in a while. I should be asking people there every single, and the more mech. And this is when you look at like a corporate structure, a fortune 500 company or something, when you look at how many different ways they're doing it. Well, it's like one, they have 20,000 employees. So every single day they have 20,000 people asking people to buy. What does that end up being? Millions and millions of dollars of sales a day. It's the math. It's the math of that. When you look at MLMs, what do they have? They recruit sales people to ask people to buy every single day. Every growth strategy is surrounded by asking people for money. And the only reason why people don't ask is because they think their trade sucks. Money is nothing more than a trade. People will throw money at you. If you have some good shit to trade for it, I got a Lamborghini. If I said, Hey guys, I'm going to give you this Lamborghini for a hundred bucks. Everybody would throw up. They'd sprint, come to my office right now, throw money, et cetera. Cause you know that you're getting the better end of the trade. So as a company, I asked myself, how can I make my students, my clients, my partners feel like they're getting, they're just taking advantage of me in this trade. And I know I'll have a crazy promotion. And it always works like that. When I put something out where it's like, Oh

my God, is he serious? Is he really doing this? That's how the offer has to feel period. If the offer don't feel like that, I promise you it's not going to blow. Well, I mean, look, money is just like stored up energy or buying power or ability to trade. Right. And so like, yeah, I mean, we, we, we talk about it a lot, you know, Chris, Chris, Chris and I talk about a lot of different things, but it's like, are we creating value for people in what we're offering? And are we pricing that appropriately? Based on the value exchange. Right. And is it being communicated well? Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, to be able to see it. Like, I think like even, you know, when, you know, you, you did, you have left an analogy, Chris, I don't know if you've ever heard this analogy and Billy, um, this is the first time I ever heard it. And I think it's a beautiful analogy about golf. Okay. About, uh, golf and sales. You want to kind of, uh, I forget. I think it was Mike Marin or something. I don't, I don't remember who the hell it was, but I think he was the one of the first products in my game, but it clicked so much. And they said the relationship between marketing and sales can be dictated like golf in golf. You drive the ball and you try and get that ball as close to the hole as possible. So you can easily tap it in. That's marketing and sales. The drive is marketing. How close can your marketing get? So by the time you actually talk to the master and the buy, it's just a little put in, but if you drive it and it goes into the sand, meaning you have horrible marketing, then you have salespeople who are going to be trying to close people. And it's just going to be hard to do every now, and then you can make it work. But very rarely is someone

going from sand to hole from water to hole. And so, yeah, it was when I, when I heard that, I was like, that's exactly what it is. And that's why some people say, well, you don't need a sales team if you have great marketing. And I think the challenge is it's almost to a detriment because now people don't want to sell, right? They just depending on marketing, but they're not good at marketing. So you get to be good at driving. If you don't want to, you know, have a short game, you got to be excellent, the best in the world. So, yeah, I think it's worth it. So, so like a parallel to that is I've never met a broke marketing genius. Like that doesn't actually exist. And then you're talking about the result, the result of sales, the R in EWR is results. And that, that is our focus. We kind of very early on realized that great, you can, you can talk SEO and you can get people into first position, but, but then what, right? Like if, if you don't have the website that's able to convert them, then the client's going to go away. They're going to be unhappy and go away anyway. So then it all is folded into like, we're responsible for, for all of this stuff. So, yeah, cause the client only pays for dollars, right? Like in the marketing world and service, like, and you guys know this, but everyone listening, like, you know, I don't care what rank you give them. I don't care how many clicks they got or how many comments or how viral it went that all the client sees is how much they paid. And if for anybody who's like, yeah, but we, we got you ranked and dah, dah, dah. If it was your business, how would you feel? Cause you like, it's, this is the other part people forget as small business owners. Most small business owners have about two weeks of runway. Meaning if everything's shut down and you

couldn't generate cash anymore, you got about two weeks to survive. So you delivering to the client and you're like, you just got to be patient. You can't be patient. Most people can't. And the funny thing is even the richest companies in the richest companies in the world and the fortune 500, most of them have about three and a half months of cash to actually float their companies. Just think about that. That's, these are the biggest companies in the world. So people do not have time to wait. They don't have time to celebrate the things that are profit. People aren't that excited about branding. People are only excited about making more so that they can afford to do the other things. That, that, that is what we, when we bring people on and we train them, it's like, you're not doing SEO. You're not doing paid ads. What you're doing is you're bringing in customers and you have to think about the business case of when you're doing that, because honestly, when the client's talking to you, all they're trying to figure out is how much money you made me or how many customers you brought me. Like in any metric you've given, that's literally like what they're trying to figure out in anything that you give them. And if you struggle with it, right? Like it's, it's okay, but just practice that. That's how you make more money. Like it's, it just be honest with yourself of like, yeah, I don't know if I can do that for a client, then learn more skills, learn more skills. Like that's, that's the switch, right? It's like, yeah, you know, that's when you go. And that's how I think a lot of people who just kind of started buying shit is like, you know, first you learn WordPress and then you're like, yeah, how do I people get people there? Then you learn a little bit about SEO and you're like, okay, this is taking a while. How do you do some fast and fast about direct

response? You're like, man, a lot of people aren't buying right away. Then you learn about follow-up emails. And then you're like, man, well, the emails are good, but nobody's open. So now you're doing follow-up text messages. And you're like, man, I wish these people were buying from my website. So now let me try a webinar to get a higher close percent. Jesus, there's still an 80% of the people aren't buying for this. So now let me go on stage and close. Well, wow. How do I get more of those consistently and dah, dah, dah. And let me get some PR in there. Well, it's just, you know, you keep learning and you keep putting these skills. And this is why when you, you know, when you sit down with the wisdom of someone who's been in business for 50 years, you realize it just feels like they're the smartest people ever. Cause they just experienced the most. And if they're good ones, they've continuously upgraded their skillset. And those are the winners. That is absolutely true. One of the things that, that you did talk about at, at affiliate Southwest and your, in your keynote speech was that a lot of people tend to stay away from sensitive topics like race, religion, politics, and you have more of like a Marine infantry man perspective, which is there's a fire run to the fire. Right. Talk, talk a little bit about that, please. It's the only thing that pays like right now, you know, anyone listening, go on your social media and post, you know, something gray, gray, meaning you're not siding on the left. You're not siding on the right. You're just like, Hey, I love everybody and everybody's cool. And you know, life is good. And just be, people get mad at you about that. How could you be so blind and not see that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how dare you be so polarizing right now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're correct. So I mean, just the gray does not pay, you know, look

at the end of the day, it's like going back to that equation of how many people can you ask to buy? Well, you know, if I post, if I spent a hundred bucks on a Facebook post and, you know, a thousand people see it, we'll only get a thousand people to buy. If I can spend a hundred bucks and a hundred thousand people see it, well, I'm going to have more chances to buy. What dictates that reach? How entertaining your content is period entertaining in the sense of the algorithm is very simply put likes, comments, shares and watch time likes, comments, shares, watch time. If you have that, it will reach more people. So it's cost effective to have timely, uncomfortable conversations. Right? So for example, most people are like, you know, I don't want to talk about the election in my business because I don't want to take a stand and it's just too hot right now. That's fine. You're just going to be ignored. You don't have to talk about them, but no one's going to talk about you at all. You're not going to be in the conversation. Right. But you got to figure out how to insert yourself into the conversation because the reach is just so much more. Well, Joe Rogan does that. And I know you do that. It's just following. He's got the biggest podcast in the world. Mind you. He just follows the trends, right? Like whatever everybody's talking about, he jumps on that attention, find somebody interesting in that space and brings them in because people want to know about that. Right. And he's like, here's a bunch of content on it. Yeah. So, I mean, like right now, for example, it's every single day, just go to Google trends and just see what people are talking about. And they just make content on that. I mean, honestly, even if you're not polarizing, if you just have an opinion on the hot thing, you will reach probably real number, like 20 to 50 times more people,

real number, you know? And so when I look at that for the sake of money, I just, I just don't want to waste time talking about stuff that people don't care about. And you've given some good examples, or at least at the talk, gave some good examples about how you're, you're, you, you, you expressed an ability to, to address the sensitive topic, but not necessarily make, make a stand on it. And then you, can you come up with any, any examples? Do you happen to remember? Cause I don't, I don't think I remember what you came up with. Yeah. Um, the idea of, I think, I don't know. I'll just pull something out of my ass. Right. Like, uh, take Biden and Trump right now. And, uh, a big topic is, you know, jobs, right. Or let's take mask mask is very common right now. I mean, I'm in California, San Diego, LA. I just went there mass mandate. Right. And it's still, people are posting about it every day. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We're in Texas. There's like no math. Right. Correct. Right. So that would be the point though, is like running an ad in Southern California, you know, and like I help entrepreneurs. Right. And so I'm saying like, can you guys believe all this nonsense that here we are again with a mass mandate when 49 other States don't have it. And the crazy thing is if you believe in mask, or if you don't believe in mask, you still have to pay your bills in two weeks. You still got to do it. So I'm bringing this up to say, what are you doing to actually grow your business right now? Because whether you're wearing a mask or not wearing a mask, gas and electric is still do whether you're wearing a mask and not wearing a mask. You still got to pay your employees. Whether you guys get the point. The only mask is over your eyes because you're focused on the wrong things. Your family needs you to

show up. So come to this webinar and let me show you how to grow your business. So you can stop masking what's really going on with all this mass talk. Right. So that's a perfect way of answering my conversation without making an actual stand on, you know, and that's honestly, that's usually where I sit. Like people will say I'm polarizing. I don't really ever have an opinion on anything, but if, and if I do, I will talk shit on all sides. I will make sure everyone's equally offended. That's perfect. That's perfect. So I, you know, what I would love to, to make sure that, that we cover, cause I know our audience, you know, what, what is working today, right? Like, what are you seeing in the analytics? Like, you know, how has things maybe shifted? Like one of the things that I've found is when we're running ads, typically stuff that worked great in the U S maybe six months ago works phenomenal in South America. Like right now, it's like you can almost predict the future, you know, to a certain degree based on the different kinds of ads that you run. But things are constantly changing. People's opinion of say stock art for one, right. You know, or you know, it like there, there's just, there's just constantly shifts. Certainly even this year on the SEO side of things, there's a ton of Google updates. They, they mixed it up on everybody for sure. And, you know, people constantly kind of evolve as they get more comfortable with the internet and have different opinions. And so I'm curious kind of, you know, what are the things that, that you're seeing certainly like when the shift to text messages that we started going to SMS where it's 98%, 99% open rates versus emails. Like, man, that was like game changer. Yeah. It brought us back to the two, two cent, you know, Google AdWords, right? Like, yeah. Yeah. You know, I would say like for me is I try not to fall in

love with any tool, right? Your screwdriver, your hammer, your, your, your wrecking ball. I mean, they're all great depending on what the job is. Right. So that's kind of how I figure with your Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, tech talk, et cetera. Like, what's my job? Are you telling me that I need to go, you know, sell something to the teenagers? Well, guess what? TikTok is going to be the best tool for the job. But the one thing that they all share is messaging. Like for any of them to work, any of the tools, you have to have a message that people care about. So to be honest with you, I spend personally like 99% of my time on that. You know, what am I going to say? That's going to, because for example, at the end of the day, like I sell like marketing and helping businesses grow, like in any economy you needed, et cetera, but it's just easy to ignore at times. And so for example, when the pandemic first started happening, the big hook, the marketing message was if I had 30 days and I lost it all and I needed to figure out a way to get back. And all I had was my cell phone and a laptop. Here's exactly what I would do to make 10,000 bucks. That was my big pivot. Everything else I did before that sucked to give numbers. So, you know, before that we were in the middle of promoting this thing about scaling your business and hiring more people. When the pandemic hit, nobody was talking about that. So, you know, we sent an email to like a million people. It's like three people are like, I'm interested, you know, probably selling masks or whatever. And then we switched the message to the 30 days, 10 grand, who's down to try it type of deal. And then it's like half a million dollars in sales right awake, like literally zero to half a million. Take recently, you know, our message was, you know, shit. Oh,

it was the e-comm. I did e-comm challenge. Like, damn, you know, and again, the message is never like learn. It's like, do it with me. Watch or do it with me. That is what sells in regards to coaching space, et cetera. It's do it with me. So mine was, Hey, I'm going to do an e-comm challenge. Give me 90 days. I'm going to start some e-comm stores from scratch and fucking, I'm going to try to make a million bucks. Who wants to watch quarter million bucks, three bucks, three days. Boom. Just like that. Like, but it's the hook. Now I share that because here's the part that people don't see. It was the seven different hooks before that, that I sent an email out to the same list that brought in $200 in sales. Imagine having massive brand email list, et cetera. And you send something that goes 200 bucks and we're not dumb. We took shots that we thought could be good. Right? Like, but clearly we were dumb. You know what I mean? Like it didn't work. So when we switched that hook to, Oh, let's put the e-comm spin on it. We found a hot button. People were crazy about the pandemic switch. We found a hot button. That message is universal. Facebook, Instagram, YouTube link. Don't matter. All the tools use the same thing to give perspective. Like my most recent ad that's by the way, giving me my lowest cost per lead in 12 years, you know, and it's basically just me in a conference room. And I have a bunch of flashcards and I, I bought a money counter thing that, you know, counts bills or whatever, 300 bucks at office Depot. And I put the money in, in the beginning, 32, 3,200 bucks is how much 76% of Americans live on. Watch how fast I can spend it. And I had flashcards, rent, money, car gas. And I'm just spending all the money right there. And then I just say, clearly you need to make more money. If

you need to learn how to, you know, some strategies on social media, click the button and let me show you that ad blows up. And it gets us like, in some cases, like 12 cent leads. I'm like, this is insane. It goes nuts. So then I get a message on Instagram from a student with the high school. He's like, yo, somebody stole your video on Tik TOK. To be honest, I didn't even look for like three days. Cause I don't care. Cause I'm like, whatever that happens all the time. Who cares? But then I clicked the link randomly. I don't even know why. And I go to it. And that video that someone's that ad I'm telling you about, they screen captured it, posted it on Tik TOK and put a bunch of hashtags. It got 3 million views in three days organically. Wow. Now here's the crazy thing. I don't have Tik TOK. I don't have Tik TOK. Someone have it. So, you know, now what did I do? I fricking call up the homies, the connection, like, get me on Tik TOK. I mean, how am I going to ignore it? I went viral on Tik TOK. I never used it before. I don't even know how to use the damn thing, you know? So, but again, going with the tools, like I'm mad at myself for obviously being so exposed to Tik TOK and not testing it sooner. How stupid, how ignorant it took somebody else testing my shit for me without permission for me to take it seriously. But man, I, who would have known that that message would have worked so good with that tool, you know? And I, here I am thinking it's just a bunch of little kids, like who would care, but apparently 3 million of them, you know what I mean? And there's some underlying themes here that I think are really important because we, we, as marketers, it's our job to ideation is a job, right? That's, that's a big piece of the job. And

you talked about, you walked in and your team was like the Wolf of wall street video, man, they weren't feeling it. And you just had a passion. You pushed through it. Right. And you were right. And then you just talked about running, you know, X ads to your audience after they've experienced the brand and you generated $200 of sales. And then you turn around and six figures plus, I don't know. I don't remember the number. There's, there's something interesting about marketing and maybe in comment about this, which is you got this passion for an idea and knowing when to let, like we talk often at our offices, like, Hey, have a passion for your idea, defend it, like defend it, like it's your baby. And then as soon as the data says anything else, it was like that. Apparently it wasn't a baby. Like, like, like it's not my baby anymore. Cause the data is the, is the baby. You can talk about that and how that kind of works with you. It's the only judge is the data. Like, I mean, I really am a believer in like in life, just like no one's opinions, matter. Like there only is, and there is not, you know what I mean? Like, like you said, it is like how, how good at marketing is the broke marketer? How good? Like, and you just see, it's just so magical because even looking at how bad of a dilemma this is of, of, of people not paying attention to the numbers, it's all the people right now who are Bitcoin experts, but are broke. All the people who are stock market experts, but are broke. To me, that is like the most offensive thing ever because it's like, what do you mean? Why didn't you just make, you're telling me what to do my money. Why aren't you rich? They're like, I'm certain this is going to work. I'm certain this is the coin. Why don't you have a gazillion dollars then? Because you literally just need to

put your money there and do what you say. And it, it will print out like right there. Right. So to me, even when I'm looking for help or a consultant, I want someone who has been there multiple times. And I think this is big for hiring internally. You know, you can interview with people and you're like, you know, have you ever helped the kind of company go to a hundred million before, you know, and somebody say yes, or 10 million or 10,000 or whatever. Have you ever closed somebody high ticket before? Yeah, I've done that before. And then there's the people who have done it a hundred times. You need to hire the been there, been there, been there a gazillion times. That is the most important aspect. So even with, you know, ads or campaigns, I want something that's worked a gazillion times for people. I want, I want results that have been tested in battle proven. I want consultants who have been there, done that so many times. And that's who I hire. So Chris, to answer your question in a very long winded way of saying, if there ain't data behind it, I do not care. I just, I couldn't care less. Yeah, no, I, I lit in the car on the way to drop my kids off to school this morning. I was having a conversation about data. It's really, I'm listening. We're listening to a podcast about happiness. And my, my son chimed in with his opinion and like, like no offense, but they just told you the research data. They didn't say, Hey, we asked a bunch of people what makes them happy. And they said this, they actually did the research and they gave you the results. So I have again, passionate ideas about things. And then, then the data comes and I'm like, Oh, like, and then, well, here's, and then here's the other side of that though, right? Is a lack of data should also tell you that something is possible. So, you know what I

mean? So for example, if you've never tried something before, then do not adamantly say that something won't work. And this is big with creatives, right? It's like, Oh, you know, I don't know if that would ever work. Like we've never done that before. Like I had a sales guy, sales guy one time. Tell me I was like, what I was like, I was like, what'd I say? I said, what's your sales? What the fuck was the conversation? I'm sorry. I cussed. Oh, I asked him, I said, what's your, you know, I said a sales goal for him. I said, your sales goal this month is 150,000 bucks for you personally. And he said, why? And I said, you know, cause that's the goal and you can do it. And based on lead flow, like it's 150,000 bucks. And he said, yeah, but like, is that really fair? And I'm like, fair. First of all, that word, what does that mean? Fair. Anyways, I just continue there. And he goes, yeah, I just think it's like, why would you have that goal? We've never done it before. And he was so passionate about that. Like, you don't just make, like you haven't done it before. Why would you set that goal? And I said, you know, well, dude, like this entire company was created from a series of never done it before. I've never made a hundred bucks. I've never made a thousand bucks. I've never made 5,000, never made $5,000 in a day, never made 10,000, never made a hundred dollars, never made a million, never made 50 million. Like I've never done any of this shit before, bro. That's the point. I've never done it. And I was like, your challenges right now is you think you can only do things that have been done. And that's why you're stuck. And that's why I tell him, that's why your performance is average. Cause you're having an average ass thought right now. So I said, your goal is one 15. You're going to beat it.

And you need to believe that and fucking get it done. So he did $169,000 the next month. That's, that's a great lesson. And I told him, Hey, remember that forever. I said, I don't even care if you work here or not. I want you to remember that forever. Yeah. Cause if you can get what just happened in that moment, you can do anything you want in life. But what a great mentor, what a great mentor, man. I got on his ass a little bit. I don't know if he was happy, but when he made the 169 grand and had a big check, he was happy then. You know, Chris, you speak about this stuff a lot, like the law of deservingness. So basically Billy just shared kind of the law of deservingness. You want to kind of, I know, I know people like want just actionable steps on this, but we'll get to it. I've got some questions. Yeah. Like, I mean, a lot of, a lot of marketing is mindset. I can do this or I'm going to try it. I'm going to be bold enough or, you know, I'm going to put in the work, like have the work ethic to do it. Right. But, but Chris, you talk about law deservingness. That was probably one of the, when we, when we linked up, that was probably one of the first things that, that you talked about. And I think Billy kind of said it in a, in a different light or gave an example. Or maybe you can share that. Yeah, I think, and there'll be a good, this is, this will have a good question for you, Billy. So the law of just a friend of mine coined the phrase, a law of deservingness. And it says that you have today, everything that you truly believe you deserve, or you don't have today, everything you truly believe you don't believe, truly believe you don't deserve. If you get more than you truly, and we're talking like, we're not talking like, do

I deserve the Lamborghini? We're talking about, do I really deserve the Lamborghini? And, and if you get more than you truly deserve, you'll at a minimum, not enjoy it or most likely sabotage it. So your business model in, in, in the coaching framework, and I've had conversations with other, other just kind of not marketing coaches, but business coaches is very unique because these people are already pushing their, their limit, right? Like they're, they're doing the best they can when they come to you. And so I've got to imagine that you, you see regularly, especially on these weekly coaches where you're like, Hey, just go spend 20 minutes and make a Facebook ad. And here's the text or what, like you guys get pretty specific about it. And then seven days later, they come back and it's not done. And, and there's gotta be part of your teams. Like what, like, what do we do about that? And, and, and I do believe what's happened is they've got this law of deservedness, this, Darren Hardy calls it a step point. They're already at their set point and they come to you, right? They're already the kind of person who's trying to push their set point. And then the first thing you do is make a good ad and, and push them beyond their set set point, which is amazing. Have you thought about like how much mindset work you do with customers? Is that, and have you seen that artifact with your customers? Every single call I have, we start with the core values of a genius. Number zero is everything is my fault. You know, we don't make excuses. We make it happen. Right. Learn something new every day and apply it. We are here to serve selflessly with integrity. It's, you know, I got, I got 14 of these things that we say every single time because it's the whole thing. Like it's the, I mean, no, actually I'm going to take the back. I'm going to correct myself. It's 50% of the thing,

you know, and a lot of people with some dope mindsets that ain't doing shit and they need to get it together. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's 50, 50, you know, you got to have both. But I will tell you, I've seen a very rarely. I don't know if I could matter of fact, actually I'll sit here and say this. And I'm sure you guys have, you know, medical Zane, you guys are successful. You've met a gazillion successful people. And so have I, I have never met a very successful person who doesn't work on their mindset or credit it to that or mentor coach ever in my entire existence. Ooh, that's good. I'm going to use that for an acting note that ball. Like really not, not a single one. Not what can you guys real talk? Like anyone. I think, you know, I always say this is that, that I've met people, less and like, like in my humble or not so humble opinion, in this case, less intelligent than me that are more financially successful. And that was the measure that I was using. And then I've met people significantly more intelligent than me and less financially successful. And so that really, again, boils down to the set point. Like you don't have to be the sharpest, you know, tack in the box to be really successful. You've just got to do the, and frankly, I often say like success is born out of really boring, boring stuff. Now when we're in marketing and so like we get the really fun part of it, but it is coming up when like you're saying 80, 80 plus percent of your time is thinking about the next campaign. That means you're doing the same thing all the time, but it's the thing that's worked to get you here. And it's the thing that is working to get you there. It's the same, it's the same damn thing. Like find the thing that's working and keep doing the same damn thing over and

over again. So I got to remind myself even times because, you know, in this position I'm particularly in right now, I get so many investment opportunities, et cetera. And some of them I dive into. And then, you know, I have many conversations with myself of, like Billy, if you just make a new video ad in the new VSL, like, yeah, like what, just make a new, what are you doing? Like, you know what I mean? So I think that lack of every single time I've stuck with the fundamentals, but then gotten better at the fundamentals we grow as a company. Yep. You know, so you're spot on. So Billy, I'm going to switch gears a little bit on this here. So, um, are you going to be the next marketer to jump into the crypto bandwagon and start? I've seen just so many marketers. No, I'm like, look, I've only taught one thing for 12 years, customer acquisition. I've never stopped my, I, I, I beat on that drum to the end. And, you know, sometimes the tools to get that done changes and I'll be an advocate for those things. And I'll learn new things. And obviously that the process of learning how to build an organization and dope things, but, uh, no, I don't know anything about crypto. So I would never teach anything. I don't know about, I'm the first guy to say, I don't know. People ask me questions on calls all the time. So Billy, what do you think about like, people ask me SEO questions. So Billy, what do you think I said? No fucking clue. I don't know. Exactly. I couldn't even begin to tell you, you know, so, uh, with crypto, no, I, I, I wouldn't, you know, a hundred percent, but how would I find like, so for example, I'm like, I'm big on trust. I don't trust anybody. Like I don't rock with anybody. I'm just like, I don't trust anybody. Cause a lot of people lie and they're full of it, but whatever, that's

I digress. Um, however, I do know some wildly successful people in crypto and I've firsthand gotten to see them do it. I've seen them stay true for the last six years in consistency. Would I be open to introducing my audience to a joint thing where I say, but my message would be this. Hey guys, I know nothing about crypto. I wish I knew more. I don't want to be the idiot sitting on the sidelines or the arrogant fool, not paying attention. So I have a buddy coming to talk to me about it. If you want to come with me, we can learn this together. That is a finesse that I would work with. And then I get to learn. And then if my people want to rock with me too, they can, but my vetting process is crazy. Like I don't like, yeah, they'd be legit as, as it comes, you know, and I was certainly saying that, that a little bit, tongue in cheek. Cause I've just started to see a lot of marketers, like the videos, right. Have just started to kind of grab. That's the example that Chris gave her. Like, okay, if you're that nice at crypto, show me the receipts. Like you show the receipts. And then also show me the history. I want to see your track record, print it out. Like there's no, so, you know, people always say, how do you know if someone's telling the truth or not? Check the receipts. Yeah. Check the receipts. And then ask other people what they think about them. And I just love that, that blockchain is a distributed ledger and it's immutable. And also to people are like, you know, this is what people don't realize about crypto is like, is I stay objective to realize that crypto could continue to blossom and be the biggest thing. But I'm also aware enough. Like you'll see some people who are like, it's the future. And you're an idiot. If you don't understand, I'm also aware that the biggest threat to

crypto that everybody's sleeping on right now. And my humble opinion is the metaverse because if people do get into the metaverse and as many users, the 3 billion that are on Facebook, if they all go into the metaverse and then the metaverse says, this is the formal currency to buy things in virtual reality, which is the metaverse, but Facebook owns the people, it will be a threat to crypto immediately, immediately. Cause people would be buying in game things, just a different thought, right? Like, or as you can see with government regulation, someone gets in there and one thing goes there. And here's the biggest one. This is, this is my favorite one is people go, you can't hack crypto. It can never be wrong. And I can't wait. I can't, I should take this back. Cause I don't wish ill on anybody. I don't want, but we'll have the conversation where it's like, Oh, is crypto even safe anymore? And then it's going to be the conversation of like, well, you have to be smart with it because it needs to be in this, type of wallet in this. And then the conversation will keep going. Like it's just, my point is, is like have the humility as I challenge everyone. Cause I was really bad at the beginning of my career, have the humility to realize that none of us know what's going to be, but have the skills to be equipped. So when it does happen, we can jump right on it and something's here consistently. No. So in, in a, in one of the interviews that I looked up, you were called a marketing genius. And, and maybe that happens all the time. If you're writing the scripts, it should happen more often. Right. I was going to say, yeah, I mean, I put it all over our branding. So it should be said. So it was, it was Damon John when you, you interviewed with him and he showed a book and I have to, there, there was no discussion of

the story behind it. Um, and I'm assuming there is related to the book. Like you sent him a book and, uh, can you, like, can you talk about, is there a story behind that first off? And then which, which part I'm in, I'm in one of his books. He wrote about me in one of his books. Okay. So that could be it. So like, it would be aspirational to, to, to be on an, to get interviewed by Damon John. I've seen him talk, obviously watch shark tank. Um, was there a process for that relationship or? yeah, yeah. Big process. I'll tell you about that. One thing I want to acknowledge, like, for example, my branding is marketing genius. Like, I don't think I'm a genius at all. I think I have so much to learn. I think the version of me today, uh, is laughable relative to who I'm creating. By putting in the work, still studying, et cetera. So like, I think I'm like, like this, this amount of smart and marketing relative to why I know, like, you know what I mean? The weaknesses. So that's more of a branding play, right? My name is Billy Jean. So it's easy to genius. But when I use the word genius, I'm actually calling it to my community. Talk about mindsets to give them confidence. Right. Cause if somebody calls you a genius, you'd be flattered. You believe that you could do things that you maybe couldn't do. So if I can call all my community geniuses, you're a genius, you're a genius, you're a genius. When maybe everybody else is calling them dumb, ignorant, stupid, blah, blah, blah. It can give them a little hype. So that's where the genius thing comes from. But going with the Damon thing, you know, and just meeting people, right? Advertising. Advertising is the, I think it's just like the secret weapon that everybody sleeps on. And here's what I mean. Advertising is amazing because if it doesn't work, you can stop it immediately and change it the

next day. Just imagine sitting at like a blackjack table where you have infinity money that you can make. But if you're about to lose a big hand, you can, Oh, hold up. I'm going to take these chips back and not bet. That's how I think advertising. So when I think of it like that, I'm like, this is crazy that people aren't doing it, but also every single time that you're advertising. And in my case, when I'm advertising, if it doesn't work, I don't do it. But if it does work, it means I'm making a profit, which means I'm getting paid to be seen. I'm getting paid to build a freaking brand. So with that, wait, shit, go back to your, hold on. You said something. Damon. Like, so through becoming known, et cetera. And then also building distribution, creating a massive email list. I have a trade that is worth it to an influencer, which is I can push their products or services, right? Because of the relationship built through advertising and the distribution collected through advertising. So Damon had a book coming out. I think it was his first, like the power broke like years back. And I saw that. And I always been watching him on a shark tank. And at this point I was doing speaking already and things of that nature. And we had mutual friends. So I was like a degree away from him, but we never really connected. So I was sick of like missing the opportunity to like meet him through people and shit. And I hate depending on people for anything. Cause I have trust issues. Like I said, so that'll be one of the takeaways. I went, I went to his website and like, and I just put in a message. I just said, Hey, my name is Billy. You know, my ads have been seen this time. I'm an entrepreneur. I have this big of an email list. I saw that Damon's has a book coming out. I would love to promote it. Simple. Right.

Yeah. And I knew that message was going to go to his team. And what I tried to think of myself is like, whoever gets this message, how can I make them look good? And they're going to look good. If they're pushing his book and coming with a new revenue, like that's cool. So I put it in there. I was like, I'll probably never hear anything back, but I was like, I can't sleep at night. I might as well send it. I got a reply. That was like, Hey, Damon's actually interested. And then he did a vet and was able to verify me through some other mediums, et cetera. And so his guy, Ted, shout out to Ted hits me. And he's like, Hey, we're going to be in town for this event. I don't remember what it was. Maybe it was CNC or something. And my office is down the street from all that. And so I said, cool. I'll send him a limo. I sent him a limo to come to the, to the office. And so long story short, he agrees. And I'm like, but I also had to promise that I was going to like deliver in sales. Like my audience will buy a book. So I'm like, God, shit. I hope this works. Right. So anyways, I'll tell a funny story about Damon. First time Damon came into the office. So my, my team is a young, we're upbeat. And when people come to the office, we have their picture up. We like celebrate. It's like a big deal. Right. So he comes in and he opens the door and he sees the whole team. They're like, Hey, and he shuts it. Like a step back. Like if you're about to walk into somewhere and there's a, his, his guy, Chauncey helps him with marketing, but looks like a scary guy is massive. Opens the door again. And they come through and we welcome. And now it's kind of awkward and shit. Cause like, and he's just like, and he's like,

sorry, man. Like I just, you know, we don't, we don't know each other yet. Right. Like who, who knows what's going to happen in that room? Like he could be walking into whatever the fuck. Right. So he steps back. So anyways, me and him go upstairs and we're about to, if we can do this, like interview content creation thing. And I was like, Hey man, we got you this. And on his Instagram, he always gives out that. He's always telling stupid dad jokes. He always on dad jokes. And so we got him a dad joke book and we highlighted all the funniest ones. And he starts dying laughing. He's like, yo, this is a great gift. And then this is a funny story. It's my, you know, my, my ex girl was there, was there at the time. And she upstairs is like, Oh, this is your girl. Hey, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. He's like, wow. We're both like dad jokes. And we're both dating white girls. Nice to meet you. We just laughed. And it just kind of like broke the, the awkwardness. And then we did content together and we did like a joint, like little 30 minute presentation that we ended up doing this webinar. And obviously I brought my a game. I got to demonstrate to him, my skillset during that. And like, we vibed, but anyways, we also ended up doing like 50,000 bucks, like 30, 40, 50, something like that, like right away. And, you know, think about it. It's like someone like him is getting pitched all the time. Everyone talks about what they can do. I'm like, nah, come here. I'll make it happen. Done. And it was down the street, 30 minutes of his time. I showed him a, you know, a high ROI. Yeah. And then this was my, this is years ago now. So years later that we just became friends, like, especially clubhouse, you know, clubhouse, we really got to link up, you know, like just talking shop

and, and then, you know, out in New York. Matter of fact, I just actually did the, he did like an internal team meeting for his shark group. And I got to go on there as a guest to last month, but anyways, full circle. So that was a very long story. Sorry. No, I just think it's interesting how all that shit actually comes into play. And, and then it's the domino effect, right? Like once you know people and then it's just, you know, so that was that. Yeah, no, it's, I figured there was some, some kind of longer story behind it. And then, then the dad joke in that interview, you said that you were going to grab one day. I don't know if you had a particular dad joke that you pulled up. Did you, did you ever pull one up? I think the inner, at least the piece I saw ended before you got to share your dad joke. I don't remember what it was. Like Damon, Damon's better at dad jokes. I'm more better at inappropriate jokes that we can't tell. So so one of the things that I want to share, like we talked about kind of heavy hitting stuff, like being able to deliver some value and, and we haven't actually gotten that technical, but I think this has been really, or, and I think this has been really valuable. Hold on one sec guys. Yeah. Is that, is that Damon? Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry guys. Is that Damon? Is it you, and you talked about this at, at ASW there were some very specific kind of Facebook type campaigns and maybe you want to share something different, but I just wanted to kind of lead, lead you not just throw you into the fire. Like I did earlier. I like fire. Run us through some ideas that you have for Facebook campaigns that are like different. Easy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody, especially like these are good ones. A couple with like SEO, right? This is SEO podcast. Like, you know,

one of the challenges with SEO is just that it takes time, right? So educating and I'm preaching to the choir here. So there's that. But one way to earn business with an easy win without getting hardcore into the direct response advertising world, you know, is just running simple birthday ads on campaigns on Facebook, advertising to people with an upcoming birthday. It's literally a click of a button. You can spend five, 10 bucks a day. But if you're doing SEO for like, you know, a restaurant or something like that, it's a very simple of, Hey, let me buy your beer. We see your birthday's coming up. Come on in. And it's just something where the client can go, wow. As a result of hiring you, I am seeing traction. And the message that you hear a lot of the time is I hired a marketing guy and I didn't see a single lead. And now you're like, wow, a couple of days of working with you, same day of working with you. I'm getting it. That's how I got in all the orange theory fitnesses is speed. You know, cause a lot of them were doing SEO and I was like, I know this Facebook thing. And, and, you know, in six hours I would bring them 20 leads. And it's like, Ty went viral within their franchise and ended up working with 300 other locations. I like that. Let's start wrapping up, Chris. And like, you know, maybe you mentioned orange theory. My friend Patrick, who coined the phrase law of deservingness is, has done training with them kind of at the corporate level. It was right before pre right before a pandemic. So that's kind of falling off and he'll probably be picking up, but it's kind of cool. Cool. Yeah. That was, that was like when I was really popular, that was probably like 2015, 16, maybe 17. Matt, do you have a kind of wrap up questions? I've got, I've kind of got one last one. If, if you, no, no, I

just, you know, I, I love just, you know, hidden with some tactics, right? Like just ending with just some different tasks. Like that would, that would be one thing. Boom. Face the face. Yes. The face, Facebook ad a hundred percent. Like try that, do it. Anniversaries. I mean the birthday, one thing, anniversaries, upcoming anniversaries. Everyone should be taking advantage of that because that's when men are willing to spend. And so are women to have the perfect date night. So be creative thinking about it. I'm also too with the birthday ones, even with like insurance companies, it's a good way to get insurance leads. Hey, you just turned 40. You got to start thinking about other things now, retirement, financial planning, et cetera. There's just a big opening for simple direct response ads that work because of someone's birthday and they're paying attention to someone says happy birthday. Like they feel that right. That people like to be cared about. Other things too is while they're traveling simple ones, right? You know, you and Facebook, you can click a button and advertise to people based on if they are traveling in a location, that's a great way to get tourist money, et cetera. If you're dealing with any service-based businesses, Hey, while you're in San Diego, come here and stop by while you're in Texas, come here and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. So just, and these are all things that you just go on the back end of Facebook, click a button can spend five to 10 bucks, write a basic ass message. Like I'm freestyling right here and get results. And this is how the client sees his results to bring sales in. Other things than that with webinars, if anybody's selling via webinars, I will tell you, we are seeing a lot of success with zoom in particular. I've done all the softwares that automate your webinars. I can't stand them all. They always break. I don't know what's going on. Our show up rate sucks. The conversions are low. So what we

found a lot of success in is running on core presentations of a zoom and then just playing the video through zoom in particular. I love zoom, et cetera. Another random tip, zoom phone. If everyone's not using it for the internal team, people with bigger teams here, it's amazing. Like right now, if I pick up, if I pick up my cell phone, I can go to zoom phone and it is different. It is not the same as your regular zoom account, but I can click zoom. I can go phone. I can see right now, a list of every single person in my company. And there's a little ear logo that shows up and I can press a button. I can listen to all their conversations in one. I can barge in. I can take over the call. I can see how many minutes. And it's such this, it's a crazy simple user face. You literally hit zoom, press phone, and you can see all that instant access. This is great. If you're training a sales team, if you want to see what they're saying. And the favorite side of it is it's really cheap, but they also have a whisper mode in there. So if somebody is on the phone with a sales client, you can hit whisper and they can hear me, but the client cannot. So you can do real time coaching. And it's the best phone service. That's actually not delayed. Sometimes when you do like other services like this, like Vonage for business, there's a very big delay. Zoom, no delay. I cannot say enough good things about the zoom phone in particular, and everyone should look into it and use it. That's not an affiliate deal. Just genuinely thrilled as a customer. Wish I found it sooner. Even works great for a student, you know, customer service. Other things that are working. I'm just always a proponent of thinking of physical shit that you can give with the sale. I talked about the USBs, but if you have courses or something

like definitely make sure you have a guide, right? Give away the course for free, but you can actually sell the guide. Like the printoutable is absolutely massive. We've been going hard on the search. Certification. Just the position of the certification is amazing. And renting out a stadium for the graduates that has been massive one, because it shows how much you give a damn about your people. But the other thing too, is there only 175,000 bucks. Now, remember this is a kid whose parents both grew up on welfare. I know $175,000 is not a little money, but relative to an event to give you guys perspective. Like when you put on 500 people at an event in a hotel, that bill is probably going to cost you 250 to three, you know, with AV and all this stuff. It's so it's ridiculous. So anybody who's in that event space, really check out stadiums for a graduation. It was way cheaper. They had fireworks included, et cetera. And the content from leveraging and renting out that space is amazing. It's like, look what we do for it. It was just crazy. So that was actually a surprising cost. How is the stadium cheaper than damn hotels with shit? You know what I mean? It didn't make any sense. So that's another big thing. And damn, I'm trying to think. All right. Well, let's, let's get one last question and then we'll, you can tell everybody how to make contact with you. You probably have some free giveaway in your back pocket somewhere. Yeah, for sure. What are your marketing pet peeves? I mean, my biggest one is just boring. Like it's because it's so expensive and it doesn't work. Like it, I really believe it's a requirement to be entertaining and like to get somebody to do anything profitably in the world of online advertising or this online world. Like, so my biggest pet peeves is when I see something and it's just like, dude, you don't need, or, or it's like, dude, you don't even talk

like this. It's like, I know you, you don't, you know, it's, it's the persona that, and I don't want to call it a pet peeve because I get it. And I understand people come to it, but it's like, you, you don't like people create a persona of who they think people want them to be when they come online, especially when they start doing video. And it's because we were trained that way because in the beginning, you always saw people in suits talking like this and perfect pose, you know, like, and it's just nonsense these days. So, um, that's one thing that I think people could. Very cool. All right. How can our audience connect with you and get something free? I'm, I'm just, I'm throwing that out there. If there's nothing free, I apologize. Yes. I believe we have get all my courses.com. I'll make sure after this, Hey, somebody out there, anybody, I don't know if anyone's going to get all my courses is get all my courses. Can you ask marketing is get all my courses active for all of our, where would someone go to get all our shit for free? What? It's up. Is it, it may not be for free on there right now. It may not be for free. It feels like free given the value. It is. There we go. But I'll do something for your group where, you know, I can update you guys and give you a domain, um, or they can get all our shit. Just send them there. Get all my courses. I'll set you up. Like that's not fair. If it's not free, it's basically for free. And that's for real, a decade worth of content. We're good. We're good. Yeah. Um, it's for real, a decade worth of content. Um, like high ticket stuff, like private interviews. It's like, it is the best deal on the internet. Like I'm not even playing, like just go get it. It's 97 bucks. That, or at least that's what's at the top. And there's like

one client, one client, right? You have to, to not like get a stupid R on that. You have to like, you have to burn it. You have to get it and then burn it digitally. You have to burn it. It's great. And then buy it three more times. Well, Billy Jean, man, this has been absolutely amazing. I'm glad that, uh, really it was Matt and the team kind of got on the bandwagon, kind of understood who you were, shared it with me. I, I, we bumped into each other at, at affiliate Southwest. It's been such an honor to have you on the podcast. We really appreciate it. Uh, again, for all those who are listening, get all my courses.com. You can go get Billy Jean stuff. It's only 97 bucks. Uh, invest in yourself. I think that's one of the takeaways from this podcast, invest in yourself, the people who are investing in the, the, in themselves are more successful. And I think we can say that what we said earlier is the opposite. Those who are successful are always investing themselves. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So, um, thanks for tuning in, uh, until the next podcast. My name is Chris Burris. My name is Matt Bertram. And that is. Billy Jean is marketing. Billy Jean for having me. Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate you. Thank you. Bye bye for now. Thanks a lot. Bye bye for now. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye.