Penguin, Panda and SEO - #SEOpodcast 263

Hi, and welcome to the SEO Podcast, Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Chris Horace, owner of eWebStyle. I am Charles Lewis, your internet marketing specialist. We have gotten the thumbs up from our audio engineer, Greg Bruce, so we're going to get started now. Yeah, punch in the face to him for tuning in early, helping us out. We are broadcasting live from Houston, Texas. This is the most popular internet marketing podcast on iTunes. Yep. I would say Stitcher, but we're losing favor because Stitcher can't get their act together. Or at least tell us what we need to do in order to get it corrected. As always, there is a tip from our previous podcast, which I wrote in any bitty tiny characters. Include email in your internet marketing strategy. All users spend some time every day in their inbox. Yeah, email marketing is still one of the best ways to reach target clients, because understand that at the end of the day, no matter how much time people spend on YouTube or Facebook or surfing the web, they will go to their inbox more than once, especially from their phone or from any device that they're using. And so email marketing, keeping your company name, keeping your information, your products, your services in front of these people in their inbox is still a great method to generate traffic to your site. Absolutely. Absolutely. And please remember, we are your friendly local neighborhood top position snatchers. Where our mantra is- Don't be a douche. Do not be a douche. Not a good look. Do we have a teaser? What's coming up today? Oh man, so today's content is pretty good, man. I want to give a punch in the face to Julia McCoy out there at Search Engine Journal. 10 ways to beat Panda and Penguin in your new content strategy. Oh, so to give the penguin the penguin smackdown, not receive the penguin smackdown. Yeah, so we're going to talk content, we're going to talk what you can do to help beat those things

going into this new year. All right, if you're in a position to, can you please tweet or interact with us somehow and tweeting is the preferred way in real time? Yeah, tweet us. Tweet us at eWebStyle, at BestSEO Podcast. Be sure to use the hashtag, hashtag SEO Podcast. This is number 263 and uptag us in it. That way we can follow you back and do all of our social stuff. If this is the first time you've listened to this podcast, thank you for tuning in. Punch in the face, which is a good thing. If you've listened to this podcast before, we ask that you do a favor and there's three favors you could do us. One, you could write us a positive review on our G Plus local page. We've made it easy to get to our G Plus local page. All you have to do is go to e-webstyle.com slash Google plus or slash Google plus or slash G plus or slash G plus on that third one. Leave the uh out. Just want to make that clear. And when they get there, there's three things that they can do. People don't know if that has two H's or three H's. U-U-U-H or U-H-H-H-H. There's three things that we ask you to do when you get there. First off is leave us a five-star review. Review. And after you leave that review, the other two things you can do is give us a plus one. Extremely important. And then put us in a circle. So that way when you publish content, it'll come to us. And when we publish content, it will go to you. You get to see that real time. Next, has three steps. Go on to iTunes. Create an account. Write a review. Please make that review five stars. And we'll probably read it on air. And we will read it. Yeah. And it'll probably read it. It's going to get read. Yeah. And then we've got Stitcher. So if you go to Stitcher.com, actually the best way to get to

the Stitcher page is to go to e-webstyle.com and find our Stitcher link, which is all over the place. Click it. Right there in the side door. We're about to take that shit down. Yeah, because we're not on Stitcher. Yeah. That's crazy. Um, also make that five stars if you could. We've been getting some blows because, uh, the feed is not uploading on updating on Stitcher. So the last podcast on Stitcher is 251 and people are like giving us one star because anyway. Yeah. So the feed broke. Yeah. Yeah. And then finally, Facebook, uh, e-webstyle.com slash, no, facebook.com slash, Facebook, we probably shouldn't do that. I know. Um, facebook.com slash e-webstyle and, uh, facebook.com, yeah, that's right. Facebook.com slash e-webstyle. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That is right. See, when you start off the wrong path, then the right path looks wrong, right? At some point. Um, yeah. So go there. You'll find, actually, the reason we have a review today is there's a reviews app and then there's the reviews built into Facebook. If you click the stars, you can write a review and then there's a reviews app and I found a review in it and actually two. So I'm going to save one for next time because I just don't feel like putting this hat to. Don't feel like getting tatted up. Yeah. In the new year. And then, um, you can haunt us, stalk us, harass us. Facebook.com slash e-webstyle. Twitter. That's what threw it off. Yeah. I said it. Twitter.com slash e-webstyle. YouTube.com slash e-webstyle. Instagram.com slash e-webstyle. All of those will take you to places where you can haunt us and stalk us. And follow us and like us and double tap us and all of that. We like that. All right. If you are a PHP guru, WordPress, extraordinaire, expert kind of guy, uh, we're going to be looking for you. Uh, submit an audio resume. 713-510-7846. If you want a free website analysis, go to our website, e-webstyle.com. You will find a free website analysis form. And, uh, next we

have, uh, the favorite, uh, our favorite segment. The algorithm cataclysm. Um, yeah, so today's algo cat is, it's kind of minor, but I did include the algo cat because it did affect our calendars. Did you notice any changes on your Google calendar? No, no, no, no, no. Over the break? You probably did. Maybe. And I was like, I did. I think the shit broke. Well, so what Google wrote out changes. And so they begin bringing in public information from all of your other contacts. More importantly, birthdays. Okay. Yeah. I did see that. I logged on to my calendar. I was like, who is all of these people? And why do I know their birthdays? Yeah. When did I put these birthdays in? It was like, wait a minute, Chuck. You didn't put these birthdays in. Google queried your contacts and imported their birthdays onto your calendar. It really kind of sucks because I have no interest in knowing whose birthday it is from somebody I sent one email to four years ago. I don't even remember sending the email or your name and I really don't need to know your birthday. Yeah. So, yeah, check the box to disable that inside your calendar. On the other hand, I won't crap on it that much because it was kind of cool. Yeah. The fact that I know everybody's birthday now, you know, so the people who I do communicate with, I send emails frequently, they will get a birthday email. They show up, yeah. So, how do you turn it off for, like, you need to set some criteria. If I've emailed them more than four times, I might be interested in knowing their birthday. Come on, if I have them in a circle. That's what I was thinking, right? Yeah. If I got them in a circle, then show their birthday. If not, then. That'd be kind of cool, Google. Hope you're listening. Yeah, because like you said, people that you email 20 times, you may not know their birthday. It'd be kind of cool

to say, in fact, I did. Send you a card. One of our vendors today, I said, happy birthday. He's like, thanks. Yeah. So, kind of cool rollout, and they're still making some changes to it. I'm curious to see what's going to come next. Yeah. They have more than just birthday information. They have all sorts of data. Yeah. And so, you know. Yeah, here's their birthday. Pick up your phone. We're connecting you now. Say happy birthday. I know. All right. So, we've got a little bit of news. I only found a couple of pieces. Actually, everything's inundated with CES. It's going live right now. Yeah, CES is killing it right now. I need to go to that sometime. I just thought, also, Sony is still offline. Like, they're no network. They're fax and phone only. Wow. And they say they won't be off of fax and phone only until, like, next week. And everything won't be back for, like, six weeks. I did not realize. And they shut themselves down. Right. They didn't. They got hacked. Self-quarantined. Yeah. We're going to pull that internet connection out. Yeah. We got to do some cleanup. Well, that's what's up. Can you imagine that call to the IT guy? Like, we need to turn the internet off. I'm sorry. What? The internet off. Let me finish my internet game. Yeah. And I'll get right on that. They're going to email me. Yeah. I'm going to need a couple of confirmations before I disconnect the internet. That's that. Now, we got a little bit of, we got one review that I found, like I said, in the reviews tab. This is pretty good. This is from Josh London. Josh London. Five stars. I'm in a very competitive market. Minneapolis criminal defense attorneys. Yes, you are. They are competitive no matter what city you're in. Yeah. I just listened to my first eWeb style podcast. This was a while ago. And I'm already applying what I learned to optimize our search results. This is not my first SEO podcast. Just the

first that helped. Hmm. I wonder which one it was. Yeah. We appreciate the punch in the face to you. Thank you for tuning in, man. Yeah. It doesn't have the date on it. Criminal defense attorney. Yeah. In Minneapolis. It's probably easier than criminal defense attorney LA or Houston. Yeah. I would think. Just going to throw that out there. Yeah. And also, I've got one punch in the face. This is a long time listener or a listener from a long time ago. His kind of role. Well, because maybe he's not still listening. I don't know. Yeah. He's a, we'll call him a lazy listener. From a long time ago. A lazy long time listener. He's got a new role. So SEO isn't as big a part of it. So I don't think he tunes in as much. He has given us reviews. I mean, referrals over the years. So, Patun, Scott, Scott Bonner, you rock. Yeah. I got a punch in the face too. This punch in the face goes to Jenny Duran. And she's hit us up on Twitter at Halcyon Days PR. Halcyon Days. Halcyon Days. Yeah. PR. She says, at E-Web style, I'm a new listener to the podcast and loving it. One burning question though. What's the song at the end? I love it. Wow. Everybody asked for that song. Did they need to give us like royalties or something? Yeah. Because I guarantee you we've impacted. Well, first off, they need to sell it again. They need to like put it on iTunes or something. I've told my guy there's the, so my friend is in the band. The song is called Goldmine. And actually I selected the song before I realized it was Goldmine, which has, you know, great things. The podcast is a goldmine of information. And the guy who I think is the original author of the song is a real stickler about utilization of music. And so my friend has said, yeah, don't tell my guy that you're using it. And I'm like, we actually could potentially

be getting sales for you. Like it wouldn't be a huge dollars, but a lot of people like it. And even one of our listeners who listens at three times speed likes it faster. Likes it faster than slow down. It's hilarious. So that is the potatoes of our podcast. It is time to get into the meat. Did we have any other potatoes? Got them. All right. Let's get to the meat. Yeah. So like we said, I want to give a punch in the face to Julia McCoy over at Search Engine Journal. She posted this article, 10 ways to beat the panda and penguin in your content strategy. And I think it was a good refresher in regards to what penguin and penguin, what panda and penguin did, what they are, the algorithm updates and how they affect your search engine results. And so, so let's get right into it. And let's talk about panda first. And then we'll get into those 10 tips that I think the key is, you know, she says the purpose of pandas update was to encourage quality content from websites and downgrade the offenders in the search. And that's absolutely correct. Like Google rolled out panda specifically for sites that had bad content, thin content, non-relevant content, content that just overall sucked or had no value. Then there was no need for it to be ranking high. All of this keyword stuffed content and all of that, that was ranking extremely well. They got picked on by the panda. And so, and I think the key is understanding how to move forward past that. Some more facts on panda. Last panda rollout was 4.1 and that was September last year. So understand how panda picks people. Content gives people a bad user experience, meaning they're not engaging. They're, they're bouncing really quickly. They're not finding what they're looking for. They're leaving your site, looking for others, doing other searches for, for similar content. Um, then they're not having a good experience or maybe your content is thin. Maybe it's duped content,

right? Or, or it's just outdated. It's old. It's stale. All of these things will get you pooped on by panda. And so don't do that. Uh, and in regards to penguin, penguin was really targeting links and spammy links and link forms and bad linking practices and things of that nature. And so, so, so at the end of the day, monitor your links, ingoing and outgoing. Make sure you, you, you randomize in your anchor text. Uh, don't participate in link forms. Don't buy links. If you can follow those little short practices, then, uh, you should be safe from, from, from a penguin smackdown. So let's get into our 10 tips, right? Uh, number one, she says, uh, increase content quality. And we talk about high quality content all the time. Matter of fact, she says a high quality content is most related to Google's mission of best user experience. And so she's absolutely right. Google is always focused on the user. What do we always say? If you provide a good experience to the Google user, Google will place you well. Exactly. And so how do you do that in regards to creating quality content? Uh, she says research. And I, I'm a strong advocate of that. Research before you write. Don't just pick up your pen or open up a notepad or get on your favorite word editing software and just start typing. No. Figure out what you're going to write about first. Do your research. Gather your data. Gather your charts. Gather your links. You know, get, do that. Um, she says keep up with hot and trending topics. That's how you stay relevant. If people are, something's buzzing and you have valuable input to that, don't just talk about it because it's buzzing. Right. But actually provide some insight, provide some input that has value. A different bend. A different spin. A different take on it. A different opinion about whatever it is. And, um, that, that makes your content quality. Um, use concrete examples and illustrations. Yeah, you can't just say something

without proving it or without giving a visual. Um, and, and she says, uh, proof, read, edit, and then proofread again. Extremely important. Don't publish, uh, poorly written content. No matter how much research you've done and how you've presented it, if it's written bad, it reflects bad on you. Exactly. I would, and the reason to have the concrete, uh, concrete examples is about the storytelling aspect. Anytime you can tell a story, the information is going to get into their heads a lot faster and stay there a lot longer. And so concrete examples are just stories of things that have happened. Exactly. Uh, tip number two, she says, uh, stay updated and relevant. She says, if your content, if your website contains outdated information, try to make an effort to get the facts up to date. And so think about, this is for you guys who may be posting content regularly, right? And maybe you've been blogging for a few years now. Then your posts from 2012 and 2011, um, are likely outdated. They're probably not relevant. Um, or the information on there needs to be updated. And so do that, especially if that post still gets traffic. If you still see, you know, visits coming from there, go to that post, edit it, man, update it, add new images, maybe rewrite some of the stuff, maybe add some bullet points. Um, and that way that content stays relevant and it stays useful. So, um, number three, and I like number three, tip number three is go evergreen. Uh, she says, uh, and what is evergreen? Yeah. I saw you frown. I saw that in my periphery. It was like, evergreen? Yeah, go evergreen. So if you're concerned about constantly staying on top of new content and keeping things fresh, consider going evergreen. Well, what is evergreen? Yeah. Evergreen content, uh, ladies and gentlemen, is more of a concept. Right. A concept of creating content that people tend to always find, like this is evergreen content, how to's, tips, frequently asked questions. Um, all of those are

evergreen content and their journalism and journalists call it evergreen because it's always new. It always works. It's the type of content that tends to be the most engaging. Okay. Exactly. So, so keep evergreen type content, um, on your mind, like step-by-step instructions or reference manuals. And like I said, FAQs, top tips, how to's, things like that are make great content. So, so the term evergreen that the first time I ever heard it, it referenced documents that continually needed to be updated. Updated, exactly. And so some of this is not going to need to be updated. In our industry where things are changing so much, a step-by-step guide may need to be updated every quarter probably. Depending on what it is, it may never need to be updated, right? Step-by-step guide of walking up steps. Okay, great. One step after the other. Exactly. And repeat. Step-by-step guide of doing a podcast. Well, you know, depends on how you connect to the internet, what has changed or, or whatever. Things can change. And so that's actually would probably be pretty consistent. Depends on what platform you're going to use. I know, because we've changed what? Almost nothing. I mean, we've changed mics. We've changed mics. We've changed soundboards. We've changed computers. We've added a lot of stuff. We've even went from no background to the visual. Yeah. We've had several changes. Well, think about since we've been in here, literally nothing has changed. Right? That's true. And we probably wouldn't need to change. We don't need to change. We probably will because we want to switch to Hangouts, Google Hangouts. Yeah. And that's coming. Number four. Tip number four. She says, keep keyword density in check. She says, your keyword density is a ratio based around the number of times your keyword is used versus how much text is in your content. At the end of the day, don't be spammy with your content. Don't be. I mean, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, you probably could have got away with that. But now, we

want to encourage you to really write conversational style. You want to communicate with your user. You don't want it to be over-indated with spammy keywords that don't really fit or make sense in the subject matter. Instead, just write like you want the user to engage. And just keep your keywords top of mind. Understand that this is what this page is targeting. And so, just be cautious when you do that. Tip number five. She says, don't duplicate. And she's talking about content. She says, copying other content word for word can land you right in the path of a panda. And she's absolutely correct. Right. At the end of the day, if you're going to, there's nothing wrong with researching. Right. It's interesting because if you're in the path of the panda, he's going to eat you and poop you out into the supplemental. All right. What do you say? Pretty bad. Yeah. I saw where you were going and I was like, all right, I'm going to let you have that one. But at the end of the day, man. There's no way to stop it. You're like, if there was a way to stop this, I would. All right. Go ahead. No, dupe content just sucks at the end of the day. Period. Whether it's dupe product descriptions or dupe duplicate privacy policy or duplicate services that you copied from. Even if that company you copied it from is in a whole other state, right? Yeah. I had a client tell me that before. Oh, yeah. We just use theirs. They're way on the other side of the country. Still, dupe content. Yeah. 75% different is what we kind of practice here. Yeah. We'll do some, look at competitors and other things like that for resources. But when we write, we have to make sure it's totally different. Right. Period. Don't duplicate. Number six, she says, go long. And I like go long as number six because this is a trend I've been noticing. You know, two years ago, we're talking about updating content. Right.

I guarantee you, we have podcasts that say somewhere between 250 and 300 words. Absolutely. Now, long content is really the trend now. 1,000 words, 1,500 words, 2,000 words. And so, keep that in mind. And what we're noticing is that those pages that have long content, they tend to rank well. And so, go long. She says, long form content performs best these days and has a direct correlation with performance in the search engine results page. And so, my key for long form content is it's okay to use it, but style it correctly. Right. Make sure your paragraphs are short and use list items, break it up with images, that sort of deal. So, that way, it doesn't just look like a novel, but instead, it looks like a short story. Right. Number seven, stay on topic. This is a pretty good one. When your website was created to serve a certain purpose, straying away from the original topic can actually harm your content and your SEO. And I totally agree. At the end of the day, ladies and gentlemen, stick to the script. If you're writing about shoes and your whole site is about shoes, then your content should be shoe related. Your content shouldn't be about cars. Right. Even if you just like cars and it's your site and you feel like you can post whatever you want, you can. Yeah. And if you want to write about cars, you can. You shouldn't. Yeah. Because it's not consistent with what your site is about. So, remain consistent with the content you post. And I'll take it a step further. She was just talking about content on the site. I'll say content that you publish, period. Whether it's social posts, whether it's a newsletter that's going out, whether it's whatever is included in your email marketing, or whatever you're doing print related. Like, keep it consistent with what you offer. Number eight. She says, formatting matters. And she's absolutely right. She says, a poorly formatted post can make your content take a hit from Panda. And

so, by formatting, she means break it up, similar to what I was just discussing. But add subheadings and H1s, H2s, H3s to break up your content so people will know what's in that section they're about to read. Use quotes. Right? If you're quoting people and you're linking and doing that thing, quote them and use the proper citations to give them credit. And I added this one. When formatting content, when possible, use structured markup. And markup your data the right way. And so, that way, you can reap the most benefits from having that content on there. Number nine. Link-worthy content. She says, think of the kind of content that you personally would want to link to. I think that's a good rule of thumb. If you're posting content and you finish writing this blog post or this article or whatever it is, this case study, and then you read it, ask yourself, would you link to this? Yeah. Would you share it? Would you tweet it? If you wouldn't, then nobody else probably would either. If you had to drink a cup of coffee to get through your own article, it's not a good sign. Exactly. So, consider what you would do with your own content. And if you would share it, then let somebody else read it and see if they had the same sentiments. And I will tell you this. In regard to getting link-worthy content, this is what I'm adding, your content needs to be extremely informative. Right? Make it informative. That way, people will want to link to it. Make it funny. Humorous content needs to get shared more. Make it different. Like, if people can go to three or four different sites and find the same exact content and yours is one of those, then you probably won't rank well and your users will have a bad experience. So, make your content different. Make it exclusive. Right? If, like we were talking about earlier, maybe you're writing about a certain buzz or something that's buzzing right now, some hot topic, make

your content exclusive, meaning that you visited that event and you have your own video because you were there or you had your own personal interview or you put your own spin on it. And so, they can find the content that's on your site or any other site but yours. Number 10. This is the last one. She says, engage and educate. And at the end of the day, that's what we're here for. Like, your content should be engaging. It should educate people. It should lead people down the path to hopefully buying your service or your product or whatever it is, whatever your action is. I added, you know, users engage when you provide value. If you want a user to come to your site and actually do what your CTA asks, pick up the phone and call or subscribe or download or fill out some form, then they need to engage with your content. They need to engage with your site. And having quality content helps them engage and educate. So, that was up, man. Punch in the face to Julia again. 10 ways to beat the Panda and Penguin content strategy. We'll share the links and we'll post it everywhere. Excellent. Hey, we do have a question. We should have taken this care of earlier. This is from Greg Bruce. He says, are there pros and cons to using the words African American or Hispanic and meta descriptions, keywords, et cetera, if your product or service is geared towards those racial ethnicities? First off, great question. Phenomenal question. And that's one of those questions that may not be a right or wrong answer, too. I mean, at the end of the day, it depends. I think it depends on the product type. Right. Per se. And, you know, and really how this product can be used across races. Right. Because you may want to optimize for a specific race, African American, let's say. Right. But if other races can use the product, then. Do you want to exclude them? Do you want to exclude them?

Yeah. Exactly. And I don't know if that's the right thing to do. Secondly, I can't recall seeing many sites optimized for a specific race. Usually what happens if you want to target Hispanics, then you go a different route and maybe have a Spanish version of the site because they tend to search in Spanish and that way you can be found and you find them that way. If you want to target maybe urban American and things like that, then you change the type of content you're putting out that speaks that language, that has that look, that feel, and then you go with that sort of demographic there. I don't believe adding, you know, black, white, African American, Hispanic or whatever is going to help. So let me ask you this. Being an African American, have you ever used that? So that's true. I've never searched for black lotion, right? Or whatever it is. I've never done that. So that's certainly one input. The other is it would be very easy to get into Google AdWords and just search for products similar to whatever it is that you're selling and have anybody, is there any large enough search volume to go down that path? Exactly. Right? So my guess is probably not. Only if you have products that are specific to that race, for example, and they're marketed as such. And not well known. And not well known. So there's probably some particular products that African Americans, as an example, would know and don't need to type in. They would actually type in the product. If you're a competitor to those, maybe. Maybe you'd be selling, for a good example, would probably be like natural hair products. Right. Right. And so black women, they use a certain type of product that works on natural hair. And so that would only work for them. And so in that case, it may be wise to use it because they'll likely search for hair products for African Americans. In that type of situation, I could see it. But if it's

not a product specific, where it's only for this type of people, I'd probably stay away from that kind of strategy. Yeah. Send us an email. Let us know what it is you're doing. And we'd give you a little bit more input. So very cool. Yeah. That's a good question. That is a punch in the face to you, Greg, both for being our sound engineer today and for that great question. Got some news. What news? All right. Nothing news. Yeah. So dig this. So remember two months ago, Bing fired Dwayne Forrester. Yeah. Yeah. He was their head of- We thought they might be throwing in the towel. Yeah. Okay. So they rehired him. No. I'm sorry. What? Yeah. They rehired him. Same exact position. Two men. Not less than- Less than two months later. So punch in the face to you, Dwayne. This is not a shot at you at all. I'm happy for you. I'm glad that you got your position back and it probably came with a higher pay increase and some other benefits. But come on, Bing. Like, you knew you shouldn't have fired him in the first place. Look at- Just so. So if there is anyone over the person who fired him, they should be thinking about firing the person who fired him. Yeah. Like, that's crazy. Did you know more details about- Was it- Anyway. Yeah. It was just like he got his job back. Wow. Well, and they said it was due- It was a lot- I believe a lot of it had to do with the backlash. Like, Bing received a lot of backlash and comments from people in our industry, SEOs and people who work with webmasters and this and that. He was their chief connection between Bing and webmasters. And they got rid of him. They got rid of him. And so, now he did say that he was glad to be back and that he's actually going to be working with their APIs and doing some other things to help grow. Right. And so, I'm

glad that he's back and good luck with what you're doing. That's cool. Yeah. Punch in the face to him. We got some blanks there, too. All right. Yeah. This blank goes to the FTC. So, they just closed the Yelp investigation. Dismissed the case. No charges filed. No action taken. Wow. And so, they said due to lack of evidence. And so, I guess the thousands of companies complaining the visual evidence of proof of positive reviews being hidden with same colored text links and the negative reviews being promoted in big, bold fonts was not evidence. Or all of the complaints from end users and business owners about how the reviews are being manipulated was not evidence, apparently. Or enough evidence for the FTC to do something about it. So, all my Yelp users out there. Keep using. Yeah. At the end of the day. Keep using. All right. Well, this has been podcast number 263. You guys have made us the most popular internet and marketing and SEO podcast on the iTunes. On the entire planet. Thank you guys so much. We really appreciate you. As always, interact with us if you've got a question, Facebook or email, podcast at e-wefstyle.com. Did we go through that? We didn't go through all that. I think I left off the email, though. Send us an email. We'll get your question answered on air. Or be our sound engineer for a day. Yeah, tune in, watch live, and we'll answer your question live. And we do broadcast live at 1215-ish every Friday from Houston, Texas, 5999 West 34th Street, Suite 106-77092. Thank you guys for tuning in. Until the next podcast, my name is Chris Burris. Charles Lewis. Bye-bye for now.