Pinterest, Tumblr and Instagram - #seopodcast 142

Hi, and welcome to the SEO Podcast, Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. Well, you got the title right, even though I was sitting down. Even though I was sitting down, man, sitting down feels so much different. For those of you actually watching our podcast, Chuck and I are sitting here in our living room-ish. Living office space. My name is Chris Burris, owner of eWebStyle. I am Charles Lewis, your internet marketing specialist. Thank you guys for tuning in. This is podcast number 142. You are listening to the most popular SEO podcast. What did we decide on the planet, in the known universe, in the unknown universe? In the galaxy. Something. And just frankly, we judge that by going on to iTunes, looking at the reviews, and also noticing when, you know, there are certain podcasts that are out there that haven't actually produced a podcast in like six months, nine months. Yeah. So we kind of exclude those. We're up to about 80-something reviews, 86 reviews. Wow. So we're going to get to the century mark of our reviews here pretty soon. Oh, that's going to cost for the brandy cigar. Yeah. Then we'll be here in our living room with a brandy and a cigar. And a smoking jacket. Yeah. And a bunny on the table because we're both married. Yeah. They're happy. And it's videotaped. So all of those things combined. Remember, we are your friendly local neighborhood top position snatchers. Yes. Where our mantra is. Don't be a douche. Yeah, don't be a douche. It's not a good look at all. Yeah. And just briefly, a douche is somebody who goes out and posts useless and non-contributory information on a blog or on Facebook or on Twitter or on any. Hey, speaking of Twitter, if you are sitting next to some sort of electronical device and can do some sort of electronical interaction with us, do so now on your computer. Tweet. And what you should tweet is hashtag SEOpodcast142. Tag us in it, at eWebStyle. And let us know that you're watching. And

we so appreciate it. Give you a punch in the face. Hey. Hey, that reminds me, we had a great idea. Anytime somebody new comes onto the podcast and tweets about it, we had, who was it? Got a couple new ones. Shout out to Carrie. Shout out. Punch in the face to Carrie. Don't make me kick you in the shins. Ouch. Yeah, punch in the face to Carrie over at Content Factory. She hit us up. She's at Content FAC. So all of our people, man, give her a punch in the face. Show us some love on Twitter. And, you know, thank her for joining the team. Yeah. Cool. And you're going to do that tweet right now, right? Yeah, I'm going to try to. All right. As always, we have a... I can't do three things at once. Well, let me take over for just a minute because we have a tip from our previous podcast. Our previous podcast was 141. And the tip is, if you're going to engage in a social media campaign, make sure you're willing to be social. Yeah, definitely. You don't want to go in and create platforms and create names and set up all the stuff and then just have them. You know, that's interesting because I have this two-fold approach to social. The first one is, and actually you taught me this, it's another place you can get found, right? Yeah. So, if eWebStyle has a Facebook page, we think we do, isn't it? Isn't it facebook.com slash eWebStyle. Or you could hit us on Twitter, twitter.com slash eWebStyle. YouTube.com slash eWebStyle. Podcast at e-webStyle.com. Excellent. And so, the Facebook is just another place that you could actually find your business. So, I actually believe even if you're not going to be that social or even social at all, go ahead and set up your account. And then once you set up your account, realize you should be social and, you know, either do it yourself or subcontract that. I mean, we actually do social media marketing. We'll actually,

you know, engage your fans in a way that conforms to your business. And it's actually very cost effective. So, you know, give us a call if you're interested in doing that. I think a good point to also add there would be keep in mind the type of social platform and the account you're creating and how you should use it. Because, for example, if you're doing, let's say, Pinterest or something like that, then it's very image heavy or content sharing heavy. And if you're not the person who usually likes images or reads a lot of content, then it's probably not the right platform for you because you won't be sharing and pinning the way you should be. Right. Same thing with the Instagram or Tumblr. You know, these are photo heavy sites, usually mobile, frankly. And so if you're not the one to be out seeing something cool and snapping a picture with your phone, then, you know, Tumblr's not going to work for you. So, you know, keep that in mind. It's interesting that you mentioned Pinterest. In a little bit of news today, I found Pinterest. And there's something that I called the Pinterestification of the Internet. Because the Pinterest has done so well and its market share just shot up really quickly, a lot of websites are grabbing the Pinterest look and feel. And so where they may have been the traditional, you know, banner and one main body section and then a bar on the right, now they're going for, you know, three bars all the way down the page. And they're totally adjusting, you know, maybe that's part of my blank stare, though. Go ahead. Okay. Hopefully I'm not stepping on the blank stare. And what happens is it's just a different approach. And it turns out, at least as well as Pinterest has done, and frankly, some of that's because of what Pinterest is, not just how it's laid out, but that layout still has a good feel. And frankly, that layout has the feel that we've been putting into

our clients for a long time, and that's the blocks, right? Pinterest is comprised of a bunch of blocks with a blurb, I think, just a little piece of text or whatever. Something like that. And so our websites, we recognize and actually learned this from what's called Google Universal or Universal Search, is that people will look at the sections, the individual sections. So you want to increase time on site, you actually make little blocks that people's eyes will be drawn to. So I just thought that was interesting. Hey, little trivia question for you. What does Angry Birds space, or what do Angry Birds space and I have in common? This is an easy one. You're not on Windows. Yeah! I will never be on Windows 7. You're not on Windows. That's the easy one. I read that this morning. That's how I know that. Yeah, you're not on Windows. That's good. Yeah, come on, Windows. I mean, and it's not the fact that, you know, one of the most popular mobile gaming, you know, is not going to your apps, is not going to your platform. What's more important is their reason behind not doing it. They feel that the platform probably sucks, that it's not going to grow, and that it'll eventually crash and burn. Too hard to support, was the quote that I had. It's too hard to support Angry Birds on a Windows 7 phone, so we're just not going to put it on a Windows 7 phone. Yeah, I feel like they just didn't want to supply the necessary resources to make it work there. Yep. Like, it's not worth it. Yeah, so, yeah, there's not enough people over there. I do, you may notice there is another tear tattoo over here. I may have some more reviews to read. There's no new ones. Yeah, there's no new ones. I can't catch up, so, yeah. Yeah, go to iTunes, subscribe for an account, leave us a review, hit us up, tell us if you did it. Podcast at e-webstyle.com. Let us know

that you submitted. Well, you know, the other thing you could do, you could actually, and this would count, this would help erase the tear tattoo that's now just covering my entire face. You go to e-webstyle.com slash SEO podcast, and when you scroll right under the videos, you can see a Google Places link. Go to our Google Places page and submit a review over there. We've got a lot of people who put some nice reviews over there, so thank you. And one moron who's put a bad review. Moe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's probably, you know, never mind. Yeah. All right. So, here we go. This is, I think, from the UK. Title of the review is, This is the Best SEO Info. iBiz121. These guys really know their stuff. They are easy to listen to. I can listen to these podcasts all day and still crave more. Keep up the great work. That's what's up. That's awesome. Punch in the face. I think there's supposed to be a comment in there. This is by Ryan McLean or McLean. I listened to almost the entire series of this podcast on a road trip I did for work. It was a real punch in the face when I realized that there was so much about SEO that I didn't know. I pity the fool who gives you four stars. Oh, so he was wrong that time. Yeah. That was, wow. Yeah. December 2011. Blank stare to all those people who complain about the pre-show blanter. It kept me awake on the road and I owe you for that. Here's a big punch in the face to knock you unconscious. Yeah. Pity the fool who go to sleep driving. I always say if I'm driving and I need to sleep, only until the next bridge. You do the math. All right. So we've got some interesting things to talk about. Things that we've been working on and going around at the office today. And one of them is the relative author, Bermuda Triangle. Tag. Taggle. Taggle. Bermuda Taggle.

Bermuda Tri... That's not bad. Real author, Bermuda Taggle. Say that three times fast. I will not. Real author, Bermuda Taggle. Okay. Instead of triangle, Taggle. Okay. I'm with you. I got you. So you may have noticed in the SERPs that sometimes when a page shows up, there's actually an image of an author. And you may be wondering, much like we did, how do you get your image next to a page, hopefully, that you authored? In the Google SERP. And what we found out is that that image is actually your avatar from your Google Plus page. Profile. Yeah. And so what you have to do is they have kind of a triangle, which is where our title comes from, of links you have to associate with either the site that was posted, that came up in the search, your Google Plus page, and the bio page on your site. Right. And so you have to link all three of those together in the triangle, and you can't get lost doing it, hence the Bermuda part. Yeah. And then they will pull your avatar and show it there because you've proved that you've authored that post. And it's really cool. And I guess technically it's not a triangle because you need a link from the page that you want to show the author for to a bio page on your same domain. So this is a biography of you, the author, and that bio page needs to link to your Google Plus account, and then your Google Plus account needs to link back to that bio page. Yeah. So it's not necessarily a triangle. It's more like two acute angles that don't share one side. We'll call it a two-step. That's two acute angles that share one side. That don't share one, they're missing the right side. Right. So if we go this way and back this way, we don't never hit that last side. So it's just one angle with a U-turn. All right. We need a GPS now. And the next thing that we did

around the office here. Oh, I missed one piece of news. I thought this was cool. Google is actually pushing through a patent where they'll listen to your phone calls. And the patent describes a technology where they can understand that it's raining and try and sell you an umbrella. Like, listen to the background noise and know what's going on and try and mark it to you that way. Boo. Yeah. I do not want you to listen to my phone calls. What is a phone for if you can't hold it over your head to use as an umbrella? I mean, I think I've done that once. Texting me sales. All right. So then the last thing, this is also something that we did around here. And we actually talked about this back in Podcast 94. And we had, I had actually theorized that Google was in the process of merging Google local places and organic. Because if you remember when Google local places came onto the scene, it was the seven pack, A through G. And you could have an A through G place and an organic place. And even before that, before it became official, I remember we podcasted a while ago and they were still restructuring it. The maps were shown in the middle. Then they were shown on the right side. Then they were switching up depending on how many results they showed. And so, you know, all that was A, B variant testing. Like which one got us more clicks and made us more money. And confused us. Yeah. And made the SEOers like freak out. So when they finally narrowed that down, and I always theorized that there's no reason not to merge these. So you take the best of Google local places. You take the best of organic and you create one top 10, top 15, I don't know what it is. The number's a little different now, right? Yeah, because you're still getting the six pack. The seven pack. You're still getting A through G. And you're still getting the

natural listings. But I don't think it's 10 natural listings still. We'll have to count that. So it's somewhere between 10 and 16, 17, is it six or seven? 17 listings on that first page. A, B, C, D, E, F, seven. Seven. Yeah, 17. See, we can be our own GPS with the alphabet. So what we found, and specifically at podcast number 94, I noticed that the Google local places listing, the actual URL in the link, was to an internal page. Yeah. And if you're familiar with Google local places, Google local places only allows you to put your home, it's just your domain. It doesn't allow you to put an internal page as your kind of main Google local places, not Google local places page. Yeah. So in our case, it's e-webstyle.com. We can't have e-webstyle.com slash SEO podcast. So as soon as I saw that internal page, that internal page had some organic SEO weight that helped Google determine to put it as a local listing in the top seven of the local listings at the time. Yeah. So what was interesting was that, you know, usually local listings will, you know how local listing looks, it has a title, which is usually your company name, and that link, that title goes usually to the homepage because that's the URL that you can put in the Google Play. This is your homepage, and then you have your stars and the pen, right, indicating which letter you are. Well, what we noticed was that when we began hovering over those titles for, in one account in particular, we noticed that it wasn't going to the root domain. It was going to an actual sub-page. Internal page, yeah. Yeah, and that's where we, again, doing some further research and realizing that they are meshing, meshing together natural listings for a local search. So in particular, this company we were working on, it's an account of ours, they were actually, their natural listings showed up below the places listings, frankly, below the seven pack. But inside the seven

pack, I think it was letter D or something, their local listing was actually going to an internal page. And we went to double-check the places page, and it was the root domain we had listed. So Google had to do that. We can't do that. And so I think they'll continue to get even more meshed. Well, and remember, when Google Local Places first came out, it was actually very common to have a local places listing and an organic listing. And an organic, yeah. And I think Google, rightly so, I mean, frustratingly so for SEOers and people who want multiple positions on the first page. But when you think, we always talk about the fundamental thing to do as an SEO is make sure that you're providing a good experience to the Google user. And if you take all 10 slots, remember the old days, you could actually get all 10 slots. That's not a good experience for the Google user. I mean, that's like saying, okay, we're going to close all stores. I remember that too. You can only go to Best Buy now. You're like, man, these first four are the same people. Yeah. Yeah. It's old school, but I remember that. And so when Google Local Places first came out, it was very easy to have, well, I'll do quote unquote easy, to have a Google Local Places listing and an organic listing. And what we're finding is you can still see two people with two slots, right? PPC Houston. We're in two slots on the first page. And one of them is in a Google Local Places. So that can still happen because it turns out to be the most relevant content for that key phrase. But what you'll see is it's less likely to have an organic Local Places listing and an organic listing. It's going to be the same percentage as if there were no Local Places listings, what percentage of the time are you able to get two slots? Well, and what I would like to see from Google is

some stats that they probably won't release in regards to, well, maybe they might, how many people still click the natural listings over the local. Right. Because just how some people always say they overlook paid listings, I'm pretty confident that some people overlook maps. Yeah. Yeah. Because they stand out, they look weird for some reason and so they want to avoid them. Yeah. Absolutely. And so, you know, I would prefer not to be merged, you know, into a local listing if it's going to remove my natural listing below. Right. Absolutely. My guess is, though, that they, I think, I tend to click the Local Places listing and I think... Well, that's because you're an advanced searcher. Yeah. I mean, we search... Well, we're definitely different, to be sure. I would imagine, though, that Google, if it realized that people weren't switching, clicking that Local listing, that means people are scrolling. And as soon as you're asking people to scroll, you've come up with a design that's not as efficient or effective and so they probably would have bumped the local listing to the bottom or something along those lines. So, my theory, clearly, because I just described it, is that that was what all the shuffling was about and they were trying to figure out the optimal way to get people to click quickly on search results pages. So, very interesting stuff. If you guys have anything to add to it, please, yeah, please let us know, either on Facebook or podcast at e-webstyle.com. We have to start doing blank stare at Google+. When are we going to get the vanity names? Yeah. I can't say, you know, plus.google.com slash 100955. Yeah. I can't do that. And so, but, I mean, G Plus is a great platform for a discussion like this. Yeah. And so, you know, go to ewebstyle.com slash SEO podcast. There is a link to our pluses page there. And so, hit us up, man. I'd like to hear what y'all think about that. Cool. Well, we've, if we were to include those

last segments, those comments about experiences that we just had in the Geno time limit, we've just blown through the gene, like it's exploded, nuclear bomb, it's been North Korea-ed. Wow. Now we're getting to the real content. Yeah, it was good stuff, yeah. Well, so I put an article from Neil Patel, posted on quicksprout.com, and the article was titled, 10 SEO Trends You Can't Ignore If You Want High Rankings. And so, of course, I was like, well, it caught my attention, so great title. But I figured, you know, I go into these objectives. Yeah, I'm like, I can ignore them. Yeah, I go into these, like, okay, what makes them great? You know, why should I, why shouldn't I ignore them? You know, and I'd like to see what they have to say, present it to you guys, and see if we're on the same page. So, overall, I did brief through the article, and it was pretty informative. The first one was the Panda Farmer scraper. It was talking about the Google algorithm updates that happened last year. And so, these, if you are doing SEO, these are, this was definitely an update you can't ignore. This update affected people with content, who had content that wasn't unique. It affected people who were, who were scraping content. Maybe, you know, I call it site jacking. If you were taking content from other places, and it affected people who maybe had been spending articles, and doing all sorts of other content form related things, and using that content on their site. And so, if you were doing that, chances are, you probably went from page one to probably page ten, maybe, or maybe even into outer space. Yeah, off the index. Yeah, so. Result one million. Yeah, exactly. So, definitely, you know, if you were doing that, fix your content, start rewriting, start researching, put out some content that's useful, that Google will find useful for their users. Number two was Caffeine, which was another Google algorithm update. And that was, was that a more, that

was more of a, more of a system change. And indexing update, so increasing the ability to index sites rapidly, and then, you know, they kind of, they seem to break up indexing, and the algorithm, although certainly there's a lot of, you know, if you index it incorrectly, it will screw up your results, so they're obviously all tied together. Yeah, Caffeine, in a nutshell, was the ability for them to index the entire internet extremely fast. They said every second, like, yeah. Yeah, matter of fact, Matt Cutts said that Google does have the processing power to take a whole snapshot of the entire internet, but they won't do it because it'll probably shut it down. Take the internet down. So. That's impressive. Yeah, that's highly impressive. Number three was unexpected search changes, search engine results page. Kind of along the lines of what we were talking about earlier with the local listings. You know, if you were, let's say, ranking for a G, a C listing and a local listing and a maybe second or third spot natural, and then they merge, it's fair enough to say that your traffic will probably decrease by half. Right. Because you went from two listings to one. Right. And so, you know, be aware of Google's SERP page changes, how they land things out, especially in regards to your sponsored ads as well. Keep that in mind. Because one thing I don't like is if you're doing sponsored ads and you're running ads on the right side, so you're not top bidding. Right. When you scroll, those ads slide under the map. Right. They don't. They don't sit there. Yeah, they don't sit there. And so, yeah, top bid if, you know, or at least three spot. That's a good place to go. That's a whole other podcast. Let's see here. Number four was Mayday. Mayday was an update that was similar to the caffeine, but Mayday, let's see, he puts in here that sites getting less traffic are still indexed, but they may not rank as high as before.

The Mayday algorithm, from what I understand it to be, was really focused on long-tail key phrases. So you may not rank well for highly competitive phrases, but you may rank well for long-tail phrases. And if those long-tail phrases that you tend to get a good placement for are really related to a high competitive phrase, then Google may start increasing your ranking if your content's good. And so, you know, the Mayday was kind of really like, help, you know, I'm a great site, I have great content, and I rank well for this term, but I need to be up here. You know, help me out. And so, you know, be aware of that. But hopefully, I think, if you're doing great content. Yeah, that was a benefit to you. Yeah, yeah, if you're doing great content, then here you go. That was like a pat on the back for creating that content. Mayday was a Hail Mary for you. Google Instant, number five. That's a great one. Google Instant, remember that? When Google Instant came out, everybody panicked. Yeah. It's like, oh, snap, because Google is now giving... We had an issue yesterday that made us doubt Google Instant. We were like, oh, we got to get a hold of Google, and, you know, they screwed something up because we were looking at Google Analytics, and it turned out it was us. Yeah. Google Instant, for those who may not know, is the sample search queries, sample search keywords, rather, that Google shows you as you begin typing in the search bar, instant results. And then, you know, the search page changes as well as your letters type. And so, you know, I think our worry, I won't call it a fear, but our worry at the time was that, is this going to change impressions? Right. Is it going to change everything for pay listings? So those changes as well. So, is this going to change your impressions there, which could, in turn, affect your cost per click, you know, or natural listings? Is this

going to move? They had all sorts of stuff, but I think, what did we determine, 30 seconds or something like that? If they click, or if they don't click, but that pay stays up 30 seconds, then that's when your impressions count. That's the impression, yeah. And so, they, you know, no need to panic. Everybody, you know, calm down. It's well-defined, and we're okay. Breathe easy. Yeah. Number six was sight speed as a ranking signal. This one didn't have a huge effect like Panda did, but it's definitely more towards user experience, I think. You know, nobody likes a slow sight. Well, Matt Cutts, he said that this affected like 1% of search results, and one of the things I'd like to point out is that it doesn't mean 1% of the people who used to be in the first position aren't on the first page. It means maybe position 1 and 2 got switched, right? Because they were equally weighted, or fairly equally weighted in terms of content and inbound links and, you know, the layout of the content, but one of them was a little bit faster. So, let me put the faster one in position 1. And so, it may not have actually changed the pages on page 1. It just may have rearranged the order. Obviously, if you were in position 10, that may have bumped you to the second page and brought number 11 to the front page. So, I doubt that they probably weren't indexing pages that took, you know, whatever, 25 seconds to load anyway. You know, so those were, you know, dead pages to Google anyway. It was just a matter of, okay, well, we should actually show a page that's quicker. That's going to be, once again, a better experience to our Google user. One thing about Matt, Matt gets me. He always, he's kind of nonchalant. Oh, it's going to affect 1%. Oh, well, that's true. Now, think about how many searches Google gets. 1% is huge. Yeah. Oh, only 1%. Of a billion, right? Yeah. That's

100 million searches. Yeah. Yeah. Just tie it. Actually, 10 million searches. Number seven was site speed as a, oh, what's the more we just did? Seven, being gaining on Google. This is interesting. So, in this article, he puts that Google takes up 67% of searches. I like to see that. I've seen numbers where they're still closer to 80. And so, but either way, I think Bing is somewhat gaining on Google. Maybe, if not by direct searches, by indirect, meaning, you know, partner sites and things like that, different search networks. Because people are using Bing. I mean, frankly, Internet Explorer is still, well, it was, to the other day. Well, it finally took it out for one day. Wow. It actually was the most used browser than I eat. Wow. That's wild. Anyway, Internet Explorer, their default search is still Bing. And so, you know, and my mommy's in Internet Explorer. And Bing. And therefore, Bing. Yeah. You haven't sat down and updated it, or? I do, but she's like, what's with the fox? Where's my blue E at? And so, yeah. She follows the blue E. Um, the Yahoo Bing merger, uh, merger was completed a while ago, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh, yeah. That's, that's the big reason that Bing is catching up to Google, is because they merged with Yahoo, uh, the results anyway. Um, yeah, so just keep that in mind. You know, do AdWords, you know, frankly. I mean, well, do AdCenter, because, um, if you do it in Bing, it shows up in Yahoo, and then it's a lot cheaper. Frankly, what, if you got clicks from both Yahoo and Bing, it'd still come out cheaper than AdWords. Yeah. That's full of thought. Um, socialization of search. This is a key one. Same client we were referring to with the, uh, with the local listings issue, um, was affected by the, uh, uh, social signals. Right. Which was the algorithm change in 2011 by Google. Um, pretty much you're getting weight by Facebook and Twitter, StumbleUpon and Dig, and all

these other sites, that if, if Google is noticing that your link to your post or your content to your page is being retweeted and shared and liked and plus one, and, and, and dug and stumbled. Socialized. Socialized. Then they feel like, okay, this is pretty relevant and, and, and pretty important. So let's add this alone. Let's add that result with the rest of everything else that is optimized, right? It has the right titles, blah, blah, blah. And let's rank them higher. So, so definitely, uh, socialize, uh, your content. Um, the last one, the importance of brand link, I think is, um, is actually decreasing a little bit. Right. You know, I mean, it used to be, you know, if you search for, um, you know, uh, iPad, you would immediately see Apple and Best Buy. You probably still do. But the point I'm making is that, you know, those brands aren't hard, aren't taking up the top listings anymore. Right. Not necessarily. Not necessarily. Um, and that's probably due to, um, frankly, the local listings merge. And, um, and the fact that Google is, is, is kind of spreading the juice to more people who have better content. Well, I would also say, I mean, the, the reality with, at least with an iPad and for a good experience for the Google user, I, when I type iPad, I actually don't want to go to the Apple site. Yeah. I'm not trying to buy reviews. I want to see, um, I want to see if I can find it cheaper somewhere else. I want to see, frankly, everything but Apple's page, uh, that's talking about, you know, the new iPad or iPad two or whatever it may be. Uh, cause that's the information that I'm, that I'm, that I'm really searching for. So maybe they've got some triggers to understand, you know, and, and it's, it's interesting because you would think that every review site would link back to that is conforms to your business. And, um, and it's actually very cost effective. So, um,

you know, give us a call if you're interested in doing that. I think what a good point to also add there would be keep in mind the type of social platform and an account you're creating and how you should use it. Cause for example, if you're doing, uh, let's say Pinterest or something like that, then, um, it's very image heavy or, or, or content sharing heavy. And if you're not the person who usually likes images or reads a lot of content, then, um, then it's probably not the right platform for you because you won't be sharing and pinning the way you should be. Right. Same thing with the Instagram or Tumblr, you know, these are photo heavy sites, usually mobile, frankly. And so if you're not the one to be out seeing something cool and snapping a picture with your phone, then, you know, Tumblr is not going to work for you. So, you know, keep that in mind. It's interesting that you mentioned, uh, Pinterest, uh, and, and a little bit of news today. I found Pinterest and, and I, there's something that I called the Pinterestification of the internet because the, uh, Pinterest is done so well and, and its market shares just shot up really quickly, uh, a lot of websites are grabbing the Pinterest look and feel. And so where they may have been the traditional, you know, banner and a one main body section and then, uh, a bar on the right. Now they're going for, you know, three bars all the way down the page and they're totally adjusting, you know, maybe that's part of my blank stare though. Oh, okay. Uh, hopefully I'm not stepping on the blank thing and, and hopefully, and what, what happens is it's just a different approach and, uh, it turns out at least as well as Pinterest has done. And frankly, some of that's because of what Pinterest is, not just how it's laid out. Uh, but that layout still has a good feel. And frankly, that layout has the feel that

we've been putting into our clients for a long time. And that's the blocks, right? Pinterest is comprised of a bunch of blocks with a blurb, I think, just a little piece of text. Or whatever. Something like that. And so, um, so our, our, our websites, we recognize and actually learned this from, uh, what's called Google universal or universal search is that people will look at the sections, the individual sections. So you want to increase time on.