Top 12 Tips From Someone Who Has Been Working from Home for 12 Years by Ron Lieback PART 2! #483

Hi, and welcome to the SEO podcast, Unknown Secrets of Internet Marketing. My name is Chris Burris, and I'm one of the owners of eWebResults. And my name is Matt Bertram. I'm also one of the owners here at eWebResults. Welcome back to another fun-filled edition of our podcast. This is actually part two of the podcast. So the previous podcast, we're continuing it, and this is part two. So we're excited to bring you this. I do want to tell you, we are broadcasting live from Houston, Texas. It is, we are under lockdown, so Matt's in one location, and I'm in another location. And Matt and I, we are your Results Rebels. Our timing is a little off because of some delays, but we're making it work. I want to jump into this review. This is pretty awesome. And of course, the review is five stars. This is from Michael SEO. This is the best SEO podcast on the internet. We constantly, see, Matt, I keep telling you, it's the best SEO podcast on the internet. It is. It is. One of them. We constantly review SEO podcasts, and Chris and Matt's podcast is by far our favorite. So it's not just Michael. It's a whole group of people. We appreciate the user-generated questions and honest opinions. Your business will improve by being a regular listener. Patiff to you, Michael. Thank you. Did you notice that I actually punched you in the background? You see that? Oh, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Right in that background. Yeah. If you're on YouTube, make sure you subscribe and follow. We're glad to be connected with you. I don't know. Is there anything you want to share, Matt, before we kind of jump into items seven through 12? Well, I mean, I know we usually talk about a little bit of news going on in the digital marketing space. I mean, I've been just reading a lot of interesting articles related to how the lockdown is affecting businesses. I've been talking to a lot of different business owners in the digital

space from a consulting standpoint and also I'm on a number of different boards. Um, really what I'm seeing is it's the lead generation across industries is based upon really the government policies or the local policies in place. So I'll give you an example. We got a roofing company here in Houston and we got one in Austin and Austin, they've shut down all construction. And I don't know if y'all can hear in the background because, well, I am on a starship right now. So I'm surprised that you hear, if you hear any construction, but I'm actually in my garage. Uh, but outside my garage, there's, uh, I'm in a new build neighborhood and there's crazy construction going on. So, right. So lead generation for like home services is still happening here in Houston. Uh, and then, and has been happening, but in Austin, uh, the, the lead volumes falling off, even though, um, both, both clients are, uh, positioned very, very well on the first page, actually the client in Austin has been with us longer and has better positioning across the board, but yet, um, the client in Houston. So, so it's just really interesting to see how the data is affecting. One of the things I am really seeing is search volume across the board for certain products or services has gone way down and gone way up. So that correlation of lead conversion or, or leads and then away from your mouth, getting some key pops. Okay. Well, hopefully you got my point. Uh, search volume has changed and, uh, that changed based on, on the leads. Um, if you are working at other agencies, uh, or, uh, in house at different companies, um, there are a lot of shifts and it is nice, uh, to be where we're at, where we can see across all industries, what's happening and we can kind of extrapolate, uh, what's going on. So, you know, if you want to, you know, do a consulting session, we are going to be doing some masterminds. So, um, you

know, just, just ping us, ping us about that and happy to talk to you. And again, like Chris said, uh, we do answer a lot of user generated questions, uh, on the podcast. And so at bestseopodcast.com, um, you can ask us a question and we are building that out, but that's all commercial I'll give, but it's pretty interesting what's going on in the industry. And I've been reading a lot of articles, Google, my business hasn't really kicked back on yet. Um, I had time to really build out a six, uh, six month strategy, uh, that, that I utilized to rank and that we're like implementing that at the company because there are a lot of businesses now that, um, are like, Hey, I just want to rank in Google, my business. I just want to be geographically close. Right. So, um, we're seeing a shift towards that. Yeah. That makes sense. And I don't know where, what it is like, uh, wherever you're at listening to this. Um, we're actually recording this on Wednesday and in, uh, in Houston and Texas in general, uh, they're supposed to be opening up restaurants to like 25% capacity, uh, we're aware actually one of our clients owns a restaurant and, and I saw them do a Facebook post today where they're just opting. Like they have a small, little small kind of cottage, uh, tea room kind of place. And they're like, you know, 25% of that is like seven people. There's just, it doesn't make financial sense to open up the restaurant, um, and then try and maintain like throwaway menus and all of this stuff. Uh, so, so they're not, they're actually not going to open, uh, uh, you know, this Friday in two days. So be a lot of, a lot of things are different than they were, uh, so short ago. Well, one of the things we were doing, Chris was looking at kind of other online businesses and, and really doing business planning. Right. And I think that a lot of businesses, if

this environment drags on, you have to business plan different because you plan for capacity at 25% versus, you know, 80, 90%, uh, those numbers look very different. And so you have to kind of like really what we're, we're, we're doing like what we've been doing like this weekend, uh, and earlier this week is like relooking at the, the, the, the market landscape and going, all right, does this business, um, make sense? And is there an appetite in the marketplace for what we're offering? And what is there, right? So it's, it's, it's kind of like hitting the reset button, um, you know, and saying, okay, does, how does this look going forward as a company? And, and what should we be, um, you know, what services and products should we be offering? And, um, it, you know, like, I think a lot of businesses, like, I think they're think that the button's just going to turn on and, and, and I'm just not sure if that's going to be the case. So, yeah, I think, um, there should be a lot of, and fairly, I think every business, unless, you know, maybe you're Amazon and you're moving on and even then you're probably making some adjustments, but you need to be asking yourself, are we just circling the wagon and we're just going to figure out how to eek and survive barely until everything turns around? Or are we going to try and figure out a way to, to not just survive, but actually thrive in this current environment. And I can tell you that Matt and I are having regular conversations probably every second or third day about, okay, here's what's this strategy. Let's first make sure our customers are taken care of. And yes, if new customers come in, that makes sense, but new customers aren't pouring in like they were before. And so whatever model we had in place before, um, isn't good for this particular environment, right? Uh, so how do we couple the existing model, right? Delivering high value internet marketing

to our, our customers and some other, other models, those models, yeah, are interesting. So Chris, for sure. Yeah. So Chris, one of the things that I think, um, you know, to kind of give everybody insight into kind of what we've been talking about, cause I know we did a podcast that didn't record, uh, where we kind of went into depth to some of that stuff, but I, I think that as a business, you know, our core product offering has been, you know, websites and SEO and SEO is a long term investment and, uh, companies, uh, don't have the risk appetite to make a long term investment. Uh, right now, I think it's an emotional thing, but really we know the value of it and it's, it's looking at, okay, where can we apply the, the, the skill sets in the team we have, um, to, to, to grow some things where we know SEO is going to have a long term benefit in, and don't get me wrong. We do have a number of clients that, that do understand it, that are going to be positioned very, very well, um, in this, but a lot of people are kind of shifting things around and, you know, Google's algorithm, there was a big algorithm update just a couple of days ago, but, but overall, like it's not, Google's not changing based on COVID. Right. Um, and so like, there's just some core opportunities or, or some, some, I guess, um, market disparities that, that we're seeing in, in keyword difficulty and, and difficult, difficulty or competitiveness in certain spaces that we might want to get more involved with. And, um, you know, one of the things that we are looking at doing, because a lot of our time is, um, you know, eaten up in our retainer packages is consulting, which I think is super, super valuable. But, but there are a lot of people that like, listen to this podcast that like, just want to buy a service. Right. And there doesn't need to be

any of that. Well, can, can we strip out that consulting in our agency package and offer kind of a, um, you know, like a, uh, like a link building package, for example. So, um, or, or a keyword analysis or, um, like even one of the things that, that we've moved into and we've actually sold a couple of them this week instead of like a live one on one audit. Hey, we'll, we'll do a video recorded audit and send it to you. Right. So, yeah, Hey, ask us a question. We'll do a video recorded audit for like a hundred bucks. And, you know, um, like that, that, that, that takes less time. You still get the value. And so we're trying to figure out how to continue to give value in a way that makes sense for all parties involved. And, and some of the things that we're doing is, uh, still offering the same things in a different package. We're offering some, you know, no contract SEO. So like, so there, there, there's a lot of different things that we're doing as a company that I think other agencies out there and other freelancers and other people that are involved have to look at this stuff and reevaluate how, how they're going to operate in the future because what they're currently doing might not work. So. Yeah. And, and I think what is probably clear, I think, you know, two weeks into the lockdown, everyone was like, Hey, just release us so we can get back to normal. I think what's becoming clear, like, especially in Texas where, uh, where they're saying, okay, well now you can open to 25% occupancy. There's no like one moment that's going to be say, Hey, everything back to normal. That's, that's not happening. And that's something that, that you and I talked about early on is like, are we, how are we preparing, um, for, for this kind of protracted release of people back to normalcy? And, and, and actually some acceptance that, that it's going to be

a new normal. It's not going to be the normal that it was before. So, um, yeah, there's a lot to consider. And, you know, if you guys need some, uh, like, like Matt said, if you need some, some advice and some want some, some brainstorming, uh, you know, there's ways to engage us for that. And then there's also ways like, Hey, if you just got a question, we can get that answered for you. Um, so reach out to us, just go to ewebresults.com and, uh, fill out a form. We'll be able to help you. All right. So we're going to jump into, unless you've got anything else, Matt, we're going to jump right into top 12 tips from someone who's been working from home for 12 years. This is Ron Lieback. Um, we've actually read one of his, uh, kind of covered, not read, but covered, well, read obviously, uh, covered one of his articles in the past. Um, so Patif to you, Ron, uh, we covered the first six. Let me just list the first six. One is set daily routine by planning, uh, by planning your week. So go back to the previous podcast, podcast, uh, number four 80, in order to hear the details behind that. Number two, don't multitask. Uh, number three, block time for projects. Number four, email is the enemy of productivity. And we kind of certainly co-signed with that. Uh, and then maybe even kill social media is point number six. And, uh, that's maybe even more of an enemy of, uh, productivity. So number seven is schedule breaks, right? So it may not, it might not make sense. You're trying to be hyper, hyper, hyper, um, productive and you're like, Hey, here's one of the ways you'd be hyperproductive, take breaks, uh, but you need them. Right. And, and your brain works on a, uh, you know, a carrot and a stick thing, right? So there's punishments, there's carrots that are treats. Uh, one of the treats that you can really give to yourself and it's worth

giving to yourself, uh, and really does help your productivity is to actually take break, take and give breaks. So, um, give yourself a break. Uh, also know that you're now staring at a screen all the time and your eye actually needs breaks. I guess it's painful to do that. Um, uh, like if you have two hours blocked for one particular project, then make sure you get up and take that 10 minute break. And he says in his office, uh, he jumps on the in-office trampoline. Maybe we need to get an in-office trampoline. I don't know. That sounds like a smart thing when we get back into the office. You got, have anything to add there, Matt for, uh, schedule breaks. Scheduling breaks is super important. I think that, uh, since I've been working from home, I haven't been taking breaks and then like my T bands are actually starting to, starting to hurt, you know, because I'm not taking enough breaks. Um, when I do take a break, uh, like we were kind of talking about, uh, before we got started here is, uh, I am working from home and I got to kind of sneak to the, to, to go get something. Don't give that one up yet. That one's coming up. Okay. Okay. I'll save that one. Yeah. I'll save that one. Um, but, uh, yeah, I think taking breaks, uh, is, is extremely important. I think that, um, if you don't take breaks, uh, you're not as productive, right? Like I think that, um, having like focus time or like a focus sprint on a particular activity is more effective than, uh, saying, Hey, I'm going to work. It's all about efficiency in my opinion. Right. And, um, you, you should give yourself, what is it? Uh, a 10 minute break every hour or something like that I've read. So, well, I think it goes, the, the parallel is sleep, right? Like, cause sleep can feel so unproductive, but if you don't get sleep, you're actually less productive for the whole day.

So, you know, it's the trade-off is pretty easy. Make sure you're getting your sleep. And he probably doesn't have that in this list because that's not necessarily a trip tip for working at home. That's just a tip. And I'll give you another tip. Read the book. Why we sleep by, I think it's by Matthew Walker. Uh, certainly his last name is Walker. It's either Mike or Matthew. I think it's Matthew. Um, phenomenal book. And it really will scare you into getting the proper amount of sleep every night because it outlines like all the bad things that happen to you when you don't get enough sleep. And it's bad. You don't like, it's a scary book. I mean, I, I would say Chris that like, I am the wrong person, uh, to provide this tip because I, I actually don't take breaks. I, I eat and I work and then I work and then I work and like, you're really kind of the, the, the health focused one. So I'm glad that you're providing some good context. I just know I need to be taking more breaks and I'm not taking enough. And what's happening is my back's hurting, my neck's hurting. I'm having to go to a chiropractor. And so I'm seeing the, the, the repercussions of not taking breaks. And I can tell you that I would rather take breaks and, um, you know, let, let, let, let my body have some kind of relax and movement. And, um, I think I would be more, more focused. Like, I, I think that taking breaks is something I need to, uh, take, take, take that advice and listen to. We've had team members in the past, no, no longer with us, but actually had like an egg timer, right. And would set an egg timer and work like 15 minutes straight or 30 minutes straight. I mean, I know that's a long egg timer, so it's maybe just like a regular cooking timer. Um, but you'd hear his little alarm go off and you're like,

oh, he just finished, you know, a period and then he'd go take a break. And, and so that's a, that's a good idea. Consider getting a timer that, that a physical timer, right. There's something about a physical timer, uh, that I think can be different. Uh, maybe that depends on how old you are or how old I am. All right. Number eight, uh, comfortable and quiet workspace. So we were talking about your workspace. Um, it may not sound good that you're relegated to the garage, but I've been there. So I know you've created this like nice man cave. And so, yeah, make that comfortable space. He talks about do what works for you. So I've had different points in my life and even different points throughout the same day where I'm working on one task where I need absolute silence. Uh, and then I'm working on another task and I can throw on headphones and just have music blaring and that enables me to focus on, on that particular subject. So, so, uh, make sure that you've got a comfortable and when we say quiet, like what, whatever it is you need, uh, you, what are you, are you a, a noisy guy? Are you a quiet guy? You know, I don't know if we talked about this on the last podcast or not, but I, I, I feel like we have talked about it is like, I like to listen to EDM music. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was last podcast, right. With, with, with no music. And like, I liked that activity going on, but I can tell you, um, if I'm, I'm reading like, yeah, it depends on the activity or tasks that I'm doing. It really depends, uh, what kind of environment I need. And, um, I think really the, the big thing too is being mentally prepared to do whatever that task is, right? Like, um, that even goes all the way back to the, like the daily or weekly planning or like looking at your calendar. When I look

at that calendar, I know, okay, I need to, I need to be mentally prepared to talk to this client or do this sales call or, uh, work on this account or, um, you know, like learning some, a new skill or, or doing like all those things you have to be mentally prepared for. And you need to be in the right mindset or it's, it's not helpful. And, um, the more I kind of plan out, I guess what I'm going to do, um, that, that gets me in the right mental state. And then I know what kind of environment typically I'm most productive in for that. And then, um, I pulled that all the way through and you know, I, I, I usually am pretty productive in, in that sense. So, yeah, yeah. So make sure you get your environment the way it needs to be for the task that you're about to do. Uh, I think that's really important. He actually talks about having a standup desk, uh, and that standing, standing up keeps his energy high throughout the day. Uh, and he actually says that this might be relevant for you, Matt. He's got fewer issues with knots in his shoulders and zero back pain. So, um, if you're having to go to the chiropractor, then, um, maybe you need to do a standing desk. I know, yeah, I need to, I need to sit up a little bit straighter. I know I'm kind of hunched over, over the computer and I need to definitely walk around more, but I, I, I don't know the standing desk. Like sometimes like when I talk, I like to stand up, but I like, I think you asked me this question before we got started. I was like, and I didn't know why. And I was just like, I don't know, standing, standing up typing. Um, I don't know, I guess I just haven't done that. So it seems odd to me. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. All right. Number nine, set expectations with

team, right? So working from home does not mean that it's a free for all for any sort of disruption of communication. You're not going to be at everyone's beck and call at all the time. You need to let your coworkers know what your schedule is, when you're going to be checking email, when you're going to be hopping on, on different platforms. And, and I think having a rough plan of your week starting on Monday and certain hours blocked for certain things, if, if your team has access to that schedule, uh, then they'll be able to honor that and keep the distractions down. Because, because again, multitasking, which was mentioned earlier, uh, is, is, is really just a farce. Nobody's actually good at multitasking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think so. All right. Number 10, this is, this is interesting. This is not what you would think it would be, uh, you know, top 12 tips from someone who's been working from home for 12 years. Number 10 is socialize, right? So if you're just only waking up and walking over to the, the kitchen table, the dining room table, maybe the home office that you have, and then that's it. Like we're social creatures. I always loved the study, um, that they did and they took people who claimed that they were or, or, or, uh, according to a test were more introverted and then more that were extroverted. And they put them in this situation where like walking from one room to another, they had to interact with somebody. Right. And there's this thought process. At least I had it that, that introverted people like don't necessarily like to interact with people. And what came out of that study was that whether they, whether they were labeled or, or, um, uh, whether their tests showed them to be introverts or extroverts, when they got out of that interaction and ultimately got to the next classroom, they took this happiness, uh, uh, survey and they were equally happy by the interaction. So even if you're

an introvert, you got to know that it's important to connect with other people. Uh, so he's got a couple of things. He says a few of his closest friends, uh, that usually meet once a week for drinks and conversations. They're now getting together on a Google hangout, um, just to socialize and keep that kind of social activity flowing. I don't know if you're doing anything along those lines, Matt. Um, so, so I'm, my, my wife is, is doing that like on a social level. Um, I was on a, uh, zoom board meeting earlier today. Um, and so I, I think I am getting that social interaction, but I could tell you that I am ready to get out of the house and, and, and like, you know, socialize. Um, yeah, so I, I think that, um, even through this kind of, um, uh, retraction in the economy, because we've been pivoting the business, I've been working just as hard or harder, um, kind of moving everything in that direction. And, and I'm actually as funny as it seems ready for a break and ready to kind of cut loose a little bit and, and do some, um, uh, so socialization. Cause I actually think that's going to make me not burn out right. And be kind of more productive. And, and I think like some team building, uh, should be in the cards for us and whether like I, we have somebody on our team that claims to be a self, uh, proclaimed introvert. And, and I, I, I actually don't, um, see that as true. Right. I, I, I think that he, uh, uh, really does crave, um, that social interaction. Um, like, I think we all do. Right. I think that some, sometimes like we're exhausted by it. Cause there's like a mental, uh, like, like energy level to kind of feel that you're performing or you're on stage or you're interacting with people. There's some social anxiety potentially, but I think people still like, even those people still like to be in

the room and like be listening and kind of being part of it. They might not be leading the discussion, but they like to be part of that group. I think that there, there is an innate desire to, to be part of a tribe. Uh, and, um, you know, like what, what I think is really, really interesting. Um, and, and I, and I, I would love to do some more reading about it is some of these online groups, like there's a lot more, uh, screen time. There's a lot more people on social media platforms and I, and I do see people getting burnt out on, on social media. Um, but what, but what I am seeing is in some of these groups that I'm a part of, um, there really is starting to be a lot more collaboration and engagement because people are funneling that energy, um, in the only way they know how into, into being able to be social while being stuck at home. And like, even some of these ads on TV, they're like the barbecues in the front yard, you know, so like, because you're social distancing or, you know, like, I don't know. I think, I think it's just interesting because I think humans are, um, very, very adaptable to their environment. And so, uh, people are finding, finding a ways to, to, to get that component. I'll tell you, there was a study and I can't, I can't reference it, but it was talking about happiness or kind of people that were happy or, uh, people that were socially fulfilled and people that watched friends were equally as happy watching that every night as people that had like a social group or, or something like that. So there, there's even something about, like I, I was talking about before of people just kind of, um, you know, people watching and being there when, um, social groups or social interactions are taking place that they get fulfillment out of. Yeah. No, I, you know, it, and it's interesting. My, my mom

shared with me, cause my mom's a fairly an introvert. I'm constantly trying to encourage her, you know, uh, get out, like be social, obviously not now. And she goes, you know, I'm not that social, but as soon as they told me, I couldn't go out. I really feel like I have to go out. Like now's the time that I need to go out. And, uh, uh, yeah, I think that's, that's, that's how, how you feel, you know, again, that goes to the grass is greener kind of situation where I wish I could just stay home all the time. You probably don't when you have to stay home, then is when you want to get out. Well, you, you think about like, even if you think that you're an introvert, like think about all the places you go, you know what I mean? Like, like, like, even if you're just kind of running errands, like, and the people you're interacting with and where you're going out, but now where it's like, shut down, shut down and you don't, you got to wear a mask and gloves or whatever to go to the grocery store. And then, you know, the crazy lines at Costco and all this sort of thing, like, like real, like my car. Okay. So my car, I'm, I'm parked on like an incline in my driveway and, uh, I don't think I started the car for a week. And I think when I started it, um, all the oil or gasoline or something like leaked to like, and the car was sputtering when I got it started. I was like, I mean, I have not gone anywhere for a minute and, um, I think I'm starting to feel the effects of it. Uh, I'm going to go to the office tomorrow, you know? All right. Number 11, uh, and this is a pretty short one, master technology, right? So your home, uh, maybe your office is using Trello or Slack or Asana. I know we use, uh, have used Slack where we're big

teamwork now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, and it works really well for us. We're very happy with it. Um, but you got to master that technology. If you were, I don't know, the person who was maybe like Matt, who was slow to adopt the new, the new platform, uh, now's the time to make sure you're on that platform and really executing it, you know, and, and unlike Matt's car firing on all cylinders, this is all about you, Matt. Uh, so that you're, you're actually able to interact with people, you know, very efficiently. Chris, I see how you're, you're, you're, you're, uh, um, you know, uh, what is it like, uh, our business style is you're like, what, huh, huh, huh? Smack, smack, smack. See that right there? Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm done. I'm not like saying like, this is a really subtle way of, of getting your business partner to like, Hey, you need some help, buddy. Like I, now I know why you like did all these things. These are all speaking to me now. Um, I, I, I can just tell you that I did take this time, uh, to, to, uh, really understand some of the things that are happening. I think that, uh, it's a lot more mental energy and time to learn a new skillset. Like one of the things that I wish I would have had time to do, uh, and why, what I have been doing as I've been building out kind of the, the Google, my business strategy, but, but is to learn anything new. Okay. Takes more energy and time than doing something you already know how to do. And if you're moving at a really fast clip and you have a lot of things that you're doing to the mental energy to slow down and to learn that new thing has to be very, very intentional. And I, I think that just kind of now we're, we're at the place that we're kind of working through the backlog of all the websites that we're

doing, like all accounts are, pretty good spot. Um, you know, we're, we're working on like, um, like really the big thing that I've been working on is, um, a lead reporting system because you have to, you have to pull these leads from all these different areas and then calculate the ROI. And we have some different tools that we're using, but really to tie back from the client, did they convert this lead or not? Right. Cause we can be feeding you leads all day long, but if you're not converting, like we have a client, uh, right now that's getting leads. Okay. And we, I see the leads coming in, right? I know they're good leads and they look good and, and I've read what's being said and I'm like, all right, he's doing great. And then he was complaining that like, he wasn't converting any of these leads. And he's like, these leads are not really good. They're tire kickers. Right. Is what, what, what kind of the argument was. And I said, what are you doing when the leads come in and how quickly are you responding to him? So what he's doing is he gets them on his phone and he texts back, call me. That's it. And, and it's, and it's like, whenever he sees the lead, like, and I'm not talking in the first seven minutes, I'm not even talking the first 24 hours. I'm talking to him like a 36 hour window. Call me. Call me. That's it. That's it. And then he sends his phone number and you know, the thing that I think people need to understand is when you're going after a cold market and people don't know who you are and it's not a referral and they're not truly engaged to contact with you, they're just kicking the tires and it's your job to sell them. Yeah. And, and, and there needs to be a good sales process. And so that's kind of where we're kind of peeling back the onion with clients is going, all right,

so lead volumes down because overall search volumes down. So out of the leads you have, like how do we optimize the conversion level and how many of these leads are you converting to make sure the ROI makes sense? Like as leads are just flowing in and they're overflowing and you, and you can kind of cherry pick what you want. Like we're not in that environment. So it's like, let's take a little bit better care of these leads as they come in. And, and what, what I'm actually seeing is, um, that kind of, uh, conversion piece because we're, we're focused on maybe website conversion and SEO. We're not taking that extra step and we got to get that feedback from the client of, okay, out of all these leads that came in, which ones are converting? Because not a lot of these, um, uh, small business owners that we're working with have like a really robust CRM system where they're tagging it of like, you know, like, uh, uh, the pipeline or, or deals that are closing and, and, and that sort of thing. And, and so really we're looking at with the number of clients, like email automation, tags, lead scoring, all that sort of stuff. And, um, you know, a lot of them are not that sophisticated yet. And so we require them to tell us out of these leads, did we convert? And like, we've been using like a Google sheets to say, Hey, can you kind of mark who's converted, not converted? And then that requires effort on the client part. And, and the client doesn't always, um, you know, do that. Right. And I mean, I think that even you were talking about in the position of being the client, one of the values of, of working with kind of like affiliates or, or, or contractors or whatever is, is the accountability to force you to do what you need to do. But there's a certain component that the business owner is the only one can do that. Or they need

to assign somebody else. And then that creates like, so with the clients that have somebody internally that, that are given us kind of like lead scoring on a weekly basis, like those are the clients that completes the feedback loop that we have the best visibility and we can provide, um, uh, the best adjustments, right? Because it's all about visibility. It's all about clarity. Um, I know we were talking about that internally as we're working from home as well is we need better visibility on what everybody's doing, how long they're spending on certain tasks. And, and I think really in this environment, we got to take, like, there's still business out there. It's just like taking care, better care of, of, of what's coming our way because it's a gift. And, and we need to, um, you know, manage it better and have better clarity to make better business decisions, I guess. I think there's a, there's a parallel, right? Cause this point is master technology. And of course it's referring to like how to work efficiently from home. Um, when, when you've got leads coming in, you're right. Like texting, call me, or even emailing, call me. Like you want to engage this person. You want to, you want to call them. And then if you don't get ahold of them, or if you even leave a message, you say, I left a message, call me back when it's convenient for you. Right. But also using technology is doing good remarketing and then doing a, having a good email trip so that if you, if you only get the one text message out there and they don't follow up on that text message, at least you got three or four automated processes where you're also in the, in potentially upselling them or, or selling them on how valuable your service is. And, you know, we can certainly help you with that type of thing for sure. Chris, I love that tie back because I think that my brain just goes into, are you using technology

efficiently? And like, you're only as good as your inputs. Like the data is only as good as your inputs. So like with teamwork, for example, if I'm not actively using teamwork, like properly, like nobody else can get visibility of what I'm doing. So investing in the, like, I mean, like, like HubSpot, for example, we're, we're HubSpot certified. I'm HubSpot certified. Most of the clients that are using HubSpot that are paying a premium to use this are using a very, very small fraction of, of the capabilities, even like my iPhone, right? Like I bought this book. I think I showed it to you one time of like, I read a book on how to use the iPhone because I just knew that there was so much that it can do that I wasn't doing. And, and when I learned how to do that and, and set up alerts and all these different kinds of things and what different tools could do, it made my life easier to take that initial investment to learn that technology. But I had to force myself and, and kind of create the time to do that because it's a long term kind of investment that pays off. Yeah, that makes sense. All right. So make sure you master technology in all of its various forms. And then number 12, working with kids. I have kids. I am actually still coming to the office. And, and, and, and Matt, you have kids and you're in the garage. Um, so, and I know yours are young. So one of the things he says is if your kids are old enough, right, that's a very important caveat set boundaries. Talk to us about the boundaries that may be more around you than around them. Yeah, I, I think, I think working with kids is an interesting dynamic. I think a lot of people, uh, because kids aren't going to school right now. Um, I was even, you know, on this conference call earlier, how, uh, the kids were on a zoom call in the

other room with the teachers. Like, so everybody's like, so everybody's kind of adapting, like, as the point before, it's a new technology, but, but really it's, it's kind of a new, uh, dynamic work environment. Like, uh, I can tell you, um, like, I think that this is what you were wanting me to save, uh, from, from before is, um, like, like I'm in the garage, but you know, the restroom and any kind of food is in the kitchen, right? So I have to leave the garage to go do that. And I have to kind of sneak to the bathroom, uh, to do that. Cause if my kid, uh, sees me, um, he just wants to play. Right. And so, um, but it's good because now I'm getting more time with them. So I am, I guess, taking more breaks because like, I can't just, you know, go about what I'm doing. I have to kind of take a minute, acknowledge, um, play with them a little bit. He wants to show me something, but then every time I leave, he cries, you know? And so, you know, sometimes I am kind of, uh, trying to, trying to get there and back without, without him seeing me, but really, um, it creates a new rhythm or a new pattern to, to what I'm doing. But again, I'm not, uh, I'm not commuting. Right. So I, I have a little bit of more time. Um, it's just, uh, I guess, quote unquote, a new commute was so rough before. Yeah, I know. It was seven minutes, Chris, like seven minutes, uh, each way adds up. My dad at one point in his, uh, military career was when he was at the Pentagon. I think his commute was an hour and 15 to an hour and 30 minutes. And that was when it wasn't like when it was snowing, it was, you know, it was untold hours. Um, so yeah, we, we, we, well, so, okay. So I, look, I, I would say like, I love listening to

books on tape. I love listening to podcasts. Um, I love, you know, watching YouTube videos. And because my commute is so short, like, like the amount of books or content that I can go through on kind of the, the, the windshield Academy, right. Um, is a lot less. So like there's trade-offs, Chris, there's trade-offs. There is a silver lining and then a gray lining on everything. So some concluding thoughts, uh, working from home is the new norm. Um, I, I believe in fact, like within the first week when, you know, uh, people were going to the computer stores and you couldn't get ahold of the cameras and zoom was, you know, having some challenges, um, I w I, I thought, wow, you know, a lot of people are forced to work and they probably had the option before, but now they don't have the option. So they have to work there. I think there were some people were like, I really enjoy going to the office and could never picture themselves working from home. I think a lot of people are going to stay at home. I think that's going to happen a lot more. Um, not just cause we've got this, we're gonna have this protracted release, but because people have now experienced something that they thought maybe wouldn't work for them and now they've experienced it and they realize it has. Um, and, and, and one of the things that he's done in his work, right? So he does some marketing, uh, he's kind of understood and we've talked about this, like the right way to manage this situation. And I shared with Matt that there's a vendor that helps me with Amazon. Um, and, and they actually told me today, Hey, if you need to, you know, we don't normally do this, but if you need to skip a month, like, we'll just, we can just pause services. And I told them like really my perspective from, from eWebResults, that's what we're doing with our customers. Cause, cause I do believe in

the equation that your retention of customers is equal to your relationships times your results. And if your results are zero through no fault of your own, right? Because nobody's purchasing, nobody's searching, whatever, then all you have is relationship. And so it's a matter of, of how do you preserve that relationship? How do you do the right thing by the customer, which is what I've always been about, like doing the right thing by the customer. So, uh, he kind of paralleled some of that. It's, it's pretty cool. Um, and, and, and at the end of the day, when things turn around those customers, if, if you, you were forthcoming and said, Hey, you might want to cut budgets a little bit. If you did that, they're going to remember it. And, you know, they're going to come back and, uh, when we get on this other side, they're going to be, you know, even more loyal customers in the future. Yeah. I, I would say kind of my parting words, um, that the, the biggest impact for me is like the cultural shift that's starting to happen. Like I remember when people started using, uh, Facebook logos, you know, on stuff, um, and hashtags and like, now you're seeing ads on TV that it's people in front of their computer. Like I keep seeing this like Dell commercial. They're like, Hey, we're here to support you. There's Microsoft teams, but the biggest one, I think it's dominoes. Like it's, I, I would say one of the best, uh, ads I have seen from an advertising standpoint of like, everybody's like calling in from the computer and they're like, we're here to support you. We're bringing food to you, but now we're helping you put food on your table. Right. And they said, we're hiring. So like the spin and creation of goodwill through the advertising and how they are tapping into the cultural norm of everybody working from home and like people, uh, experiencing, like, I think the internet's a one-on-one sales tool that that's really

phenomenal. And people are really experiencing, okay, like I'm seeing people now and interacting business, um, through, uh, like a video chat service and, and, and that's being incorporated into the kind of psychology and kind of cultural norm. And that working from home, like, I mean, with two, 22 million people out of work and then everybody else working, the majority of people that are at home are working from home or they're trying to start a site business or whatever it is to, to put food on the table. Um, they are in front of a computer and that is like at this huge shift of what's happening. And it, it, it's, it's, it's really, really interesting to, to, to see how that that's affecting business. And like, you're seeing all these kinds of direct.com businesses pop up the curds side service, like you have to be online now. Like, you know, like I know, I know that marketing agencies like temporarily are taking maybe a hit because all marketing gets hit, but, but I think it's going to come back stronger than ever because people that, uh, were, um, you know, just a brick and mortar business are, are going, I need a virtual showroom. Like I need to be able to connect with people online. I need to be able to take payment online. Like I'm not set up to do this. And I think that, um, you know, internet marketing and, and, and buying online is going to be like a big, big beneficiary of what's happening. Um, and you know, I, I think that, uh, like you said, like people are going to continue to work from home and it's going to be a change. I mean, um, I can tell you for me before kids and whatnot, one of my major goals getting into internet marketing, why I liked it so much as a phone and a computer. A phone and a computer from anywhere in the world and being able to interact with clients and work was, was, was really, uh, one

of the key drivers for me and it given me that mobility. And, and I think that, you know, for a lot of people that listen to this podcast, like being digital, like even like geo local companies, right? So we have a, a franchise that has five locations in Houston that had to pause services because of the, the, the, the, the, yeah, they're a gym, the, the close one-on-one interactions that they, they, they have, um, they pivoted, um, and, and we've been kind of talking to them about doing that for a year until like online classes. Well, they have a ton of traffic based on keywords that they have access to across the U S that they weren't monetizing. Well, now, uh, these online classes, which the shift is hard now, now the reach of like what they're able to offer, um, is so much more, right? So it's opening up new opportunities. And so it's just, you know, like, like you said, like, can, can you survive or, or do you want to thrive? Do you want to adapt? And, and I think people have to be thinking that way right now. And I think it's our job as marketers to help change that mindset or get them out of the kind of fear phase and say, okay, like life's going to go on. It's going to be a little bit different, but how do we move forward? How, how do we, how do we thrive in this environment? And I think that that's really, um, the underlying thing that we're discussing and, and everything from COVID to working from home is okay, what's the new norm and, and, and, and how do we adapt to that? So, yeah, how do we adapt and thrive? And it's almost like a business continuity insurance, right? Like what's plan B when things end up like this, right? So I, yeah, I think, I think we've done the right thing on the podcast and the content and trying to get these things to, uh, to our listeners, uh,

and, and we'll be excited to get back into some more kind of marketing and SEO stuff. There's a lot to, to talk about. I think Matt, we've had some interesting conversations and can share some of those platforms and those conversations, uh, uh, moving forward. So, um, excellent. Well, that, that wraps up this podcast. Um, we're going to say, if you like this podcast, we're going to ask you to do three simple things. That's just share, like, and follow, uh, with, with some people that would be interested in this podcast. Uh, also, if you're interested in growing your business with the largest, simplest marketing tool on the planet, the internet call you have results for increased revenue in your business. 7 1 3 5 9 2 6 7 2 4. Um, we were filmed live in Houston and you can get a transcript and video and audio of the podcast on our website. That's the best SEO podcast.com. Uh, the name says, uh, just best. Oh, best SEO podcast.com. Um, until the night you do anything else to wrap up, Matt. I'm good. Until the next podcast. My name is Chris Burris. My name is Matt Bertram. Bye bye for now.